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Ryan Lowe - EP plugging


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5 minutes ago, ollywhyte said:

People also seem to forget that every single one of these 'proven championship' promotion winners, once started with 0 promotions to their name.

 

 

Absolutely. It's just an easy, even lazy, argument to say that we have to appoint "experience". An easy way to write off a number of more risky appointments without actual justification.

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8 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Is a manager with 1 promotion on his CV statistically more likely to get promoted than a manager with none?

The current top two are Bielsa and Bilic. They've both had success at other clubs but have never before got a team out of this division.

Then you've got Parker, Frank, Lamouchi and Harris currently in the play offs. Again, not a Championship promotion between them.

Last season was Farke, Wilder and Smith, again not a single Championship promotion prior to last season.

The idea that we have to appoint a manger who has already achieved promotion from this division is a false logic. You just don't know what someone is capable of.

If Lowe is hungry for success, able to manage a group of egotistical, competitive, young men, and plays football that's good to watch, then I'd be delighted with him.

Not saying he's my first choice but to write him off purely because he's "not done it before" is shortsighted.

You have completely missed the point.

Smith was lauded for making little old brentford a top championship side, promotion no but success I'm championship cant be questioned.....

Thomas Frank managed the biggest side in Scandinavia and managed them in the Europa League. Wilder needs no explanation.

You are comparing these guys to Lowe, who got Bury promoted with the largest budget in the league and then Plymouth again with largest budget so this idea that he is comparable to those other names is nonsense.

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15 minutes ago, Lez said:

You have completely missed the point.

Smith was lauded for making little old brentford a top championship side, promotion no but success I'm championship cant be questioned.....

Thomas Frank managed the biggest side in Scandinavia and managed them in the Europa League. Wilder needs no explanation.

You are comparing these guys to Lowe, who got Bury promoted with the largest budget in the league and then Plymouth again with largest budget so this idea that he is comparable to those other names is nonsense.

I addressed the singular criticism that some have levied against Lowe: that he has not "done it" at championship level.

If you want to talk about broader experience then I happily concede that he lacks in that department, and of course pales in comparison to the names I mentioned.

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2 hours ago, ollywhyte said:

FWIW, that site is largely staffed by unpaid teenagers and people with only a passing interest in performance/data analysis. I wouldn't take too much of it's content as gospel. Theres been quite a few stories recently on the guy who runs it, Chris Darwen, exploiting eager students through it too.

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4 hours ago, ollywhyte said:

People also seem to forget that every single one of these 'proven championship' promotion winners, once started with 0 promotions to their name.

 

 

If you’ve done something once this normally means that you know how to do it again. Hughton , for example, has been promoted from the Championship more than once and also knows how to keep an unfashionable club in the Prem without going bust .

We have seen , with LJ , that he struggled with experienced players, the type needed to get promotion, due , IMHO , to a lack of authority, a ‘show me your medals scenario’. 
 

I would prefer a guy who inspires others to buy into his methods because they are proven to work. Winning promotion from L2 whilst a commendable feat is not going to impress the likes of Palmer, Kalas, Dasilva , Afobe , Diedhiou...

We, as a club , are reeling a bit from the failure of this season and an experienced hand at the tiller is needed to guide us to the next level without too much danger of falling back. 
 

Ryan Lowe , may be an exceptional talent however, for me , the timing would not be right if we hired him now.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

If you’ve done something once this normally means that you know how to do it again. Hughton , for example, has been promoted from the Championship more than once and also knows how to keep an unfashionable club in the Prem without going bust .

We have seen , with LJ , that he struggled with experienced players, the type needed to get promotion, due , IMHO , to a lack of authority, a ‘show me your medals scenario’. 
 

I would prefer a guy who inspires others to buy into his methods because they are proven to work. Winning promotion from L2 whilst a commendable feat is not going to impress the likes of Palmer, Kalas, Dasilva , Afobe , Diedhiou...

We, as a club , are reeling a bit from the failure of this season and an experienced hand at the tiller is needed to guide us to the next level without too much danger of falling back. 
 

Ryan Lowe , may be an exceptional talent however, for me , the timing would not be right if we hired him now.

 

 

I agree with some of your points but Id like to think the players you mentioned would get over any prejudices they may have against a managers previous (or lack of) if that manager impressed them once actually taking charge I.e. through coaching style, methods, man management etc

Therefore shouldn’t those attributes be the main driver for the next manager rather than what he has achieved thus far?  As I’ve read, all managers started with 0 experience and 0 promotions, so whilst personally I’d like someone who has been there and done that, actually it’s probably not the most important thing overall, although managers who have achieved thus far must have at least some of those attributes to achieve success

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50 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

If you’ve done something once this normally means that you know how to do it again. Hughton , for example, has been promoted from the Championship more than once and also knows how to keep an unfashionable club in the Prem without going bust .

We have seen , with LJ , that he struggled with experienced players, the type needed to get promotion, due , IMHO , to a lack of authority, a ‘show me your medals scenario’. 
 

I would prefer a guy who inspires others to buy into his methods because they are proven to work. Winning promotion from L2 whilst a commendable feat is not going to impress the likes of Palmer, Kalas, Dasilva , Afobe , Diedhiou...

We, as a club , are reeling a bit from the failure of this season and an experienced hand at the tiller is needed to guide us to the next level without too much danger of falling back. 
 

Ryan Lowe , may be an exceptional talent however, for me , the timing would not be right if we hired him now.

 

 

Experienced hand can be taken in different ways. I would suggest experienced , in terms of age seniority is not necessary. But someone who has experienced higher level football, be it as a player or coach would be highly desirable. Also the club can hire any coach they want, but if the recruitment is not at the required level, they will fail. The club need a true director of football and head of scouting. 

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People advocating Lowe consider that LJ had taken a derelict Oldham club from league one relegation fodder to a top ten team before then heading to Barnsley and setting them on a course for a cup final and promotion in league one.

Lowe seems to have quickly achieved success in league two (though when one of your clubs vanishes the year after you leave I’m not sure that’s great) but let’s not kid ourselves this wouldn’t be another shot at an up-and-coming young head coach if we appointed him.

My personal feeling is the work put into developing the team into a consistent top half team in the championship has proven that a manager of that ilk can sustain that but not take us much further; this isn’t a job for someone learning the ropes now, it’s one that requires a man who’ll execute things, and put us in serious playoff/promotion contention ASAP.

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I would'nt take too much notice of anything from the Post's gas supporting sports room. Would it really be in their interest to promote a manager they thought would get us promoted to the Prem ?  If you read a number of threads on here you will find that Lowe is said to have 'no plan B'  where have we heard that before, and that's in the lower leagues..I did tend to think Houghton originally but someone posted a link to a Brighton newspaper article on his reign as manager. It painted a story of boring football and a manager who was too stubborn to change from a system that was not working. He also only gave approx 85 minutes in total game time to academy players during his time there. This next appointment has to be right or we go backwards as a club. There are enough key board warriors on here who would quickly turn on any manager who didn't get us near the play offs.

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10 hours ago, Clevedon Red said:

15 years of trying compared to 2, regardless of the league now isn’t the time. My views only.

Maybe that's the sweet spot. Finding someone with experience (possibly in the championship, but not necessarily) who still has a point to prove.

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10 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

Is a manager with 1 promotion on his CV statistically more likely to get promoted than a manager with none?

The current top two are Bielsa and Bilic. They've both had success at other clubs but have never before got a team out of this division.

Then you've got Parker, Frank, Lamouchi and Harris currently in the play offs. Again, not a Championship promotion between them.

Last season was Farke, Wilder and Smith, again not a single Championship promotion prior to last season.

The idea that we have to appoint a manger who has already achieved promotion from this division is a false logic. You just don't know what someone is capable of.

If Lowe is hungry for success, able to manage a group of egotistical, competitive, young men, and plays football that's good to watch, then I'd be delighted with him.

Not saying he's my first choice but to write him off purely because he's "not done it before" is shortsighted.

I think you're debunking the lazy 'previous Championship promotion needed' argument with a slightly less lazy argument of your own.

...

Off the top of my head here are a few things that Hughton has over Lowe, besides Championship success:

Experience of coaching well paid players 

Experience of motivating Premier League egos

Won tactical duels at the top level.

Likely to be better connected in the game

Has proved he can hold his nerve on the big stage.

...

Now, I can't say that these are mandatory for success, but if I had to choose between two candidates who were equally impressive at interview stage, I'd go for the one that ticked those extra boxes.

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20 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Did they? At Bury he brought in eleven players, all on free transfers after releasing/selling eleven players - that doesn’t seem too extravagant ...

Leaving aside the agent's and signing on fees they would have paid, the issue ( one that other League 2 clubs referred to) was the wages they were paying - Nicky Maynard being an example. We know now that they were unsustainable.

All of which passed the EFL by until it was too late of course.

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7 hours ago, mozo said:

I think you're debunking the lazy 'previous Championship promotion needed' argument with a slightly less lazy argument of your own.

...

Off the top of my head here are a few things that Hughton has over Lowe, besides Championship success:

Experience of coaching well paid players 

Experience of motivating Premier League egos

Won tactical duels at the top level.

Likely to be better connected in the game

Has proved he can hold his nerve on the big stage.

...

Now, I can't say that these are mandatory for success, but if I had to choose between two candidates who were equally impressive at interview stage, I'd go for the one that ticked those extra boxes.

I absolutely agree with all of that, but what if one of the boxes you needed to tick was ‘salary’. 
Lowe at £100k per year or Hughton on £1m per year. 
 

I agree that I’d absolutely take Hughton over Lowe, but I have a niggling fear of money playing a large part. 

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36 minutes ago, Harry said:

I absolutely agree with all of that, but what if one of the boxes you needed to tick was ‘salary’. 
Lowe at £100k per year or Hughton on £1m per year. 
 

I agree that I’d absolutely take Hughton over Lowe, but I have a niggling fear of money playing a large part. 

This appointment will tell us an awful lot imho.  Ambition, flexibility of our management/board model, etc.

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2 hours ago, Harry said:

I absolutely agree with all of that, but what if one of the boxes you needed to tick was ‘salary’. 
Lowe at £100k per year or Hughton on £1m per year. 
 

I agree that I’d absolutely take Hughton over Lowe, but I have a niggling fear of money playing a large part. 

Well I suppose this is a time of football austerity... Does that rule Hughton out or will he lower his demands accordingly?

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

This appointment will tell us an awful lot imho.  Ambition, flexibility of our management/board model, etc.

It really will!

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