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Chris Hughton


Mattredrobin

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12 minutes ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said:

The way I see it is this.   CH was interviewed, he is the stand out choice and both parties want to work together . It is professional to complete all over interviews that have been booked in today.  After that his agent and MA along with lawyers will sort out the finer points of the contract such as salary, loyalty bonuses, promotion bonus, termination pay off, get out of contract clauses/costs etc which will take a while.  Then all signed papers to be checked and signed by the LMA and it will be announced.   Why does everyone start sniping at the club for being unprofessional, dragging their heels etc.  I’d rather the time is taken to get it all right rather than have Watford’s revolving door 

That’s fair - but then what have they been doing for the last 3 weeks just to get to this point, when a faster process would have given the new incumbent a few games to finish the season - and why do other clubs manage to not turn everything into a saga?

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10 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

So are we thinking CH looks a lot less likely than 24 hours ago now then?

I thought yesterday’s OSIB was right on the money where they talked about Chaos versus Hughton. I’m more excited at the prospect of Cook or Robins for some reason. 

I’m not familiar with the context here Fordy - what do you means “Chaos versus Hughton”? Or is that a typo?

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10 minutes ago, marmite said:

I had a job interview once which I thought went quite well. The company said they had more interviews and would get back to me. I heard nothing for 2 weeks by which time I had applied for and got another Job. When the first company got back to me to offer me the job, they were astounded to hear that i had accepted something else, without waiting for them. This could happen with CH if City drag their heels too much. There will be plenty of managers jobs going whrn the season ends.

Equally, I once accepted a job, had everything lined up, and had even signed a contract with them. I then got an email from another company who I had also interviewed with when generally job hunting. This second outfit were offering me a much improved deal (in my case essentially accelerating my career by 18 months, more money, and living and working in London instead of Salisbury). I phoned up the first company and after an awkward conversation which undoubtedly burned that bridge to the ground, I took the second job. Don't cry for the first company btw. It was for an entry level position for which they had hordes of second, third and fourth choices.

I've also seen a scenario where a company I worked for had a senior person due to join them. On the day he was supposed to start work he didn't turn up. Two hours later, at about lunchtime, it was discovered that he was in Boston, Massachusetts, and had taken a position at another firm without telling us. That was a bloke in his late 50's just shafting a company he'd agreed to join.

Essentially, my anecdotal and personal experience tells me that nothing is sealed until someone actually starts.

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33 minutes ago, Southport Red said:

Including yours. That whole post is assumption. 

I see no evidence that the board were prepared for LJs dismissal.  It feels like they fired him then though, what now?

i agree this is assumption, I have zero inside knowledge, however, three weeks on and we are told 7-10 days, you have to concede a month to replace a Manager is unusual in pro football. 

If it were mid season I'd agree, but we had a couple of weeks left and managers we could have been interested in could have still been in a role not wanting to leave until the season was done (eg Paul Cook) so do you dismiss some of your preferred candidates (hypothetical) for the sake of waiting for a couple of weeks?

40 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

He was never going to get us to the play-offs...should have been sacked 2 years ago. But we don't need to argue about that any more. He's gone. Thank goodness. We have a chance to appoint a manager with proven success at this level, not a punt.

However, if Lee Johnson had got us to the play off, and been poached, we'd have needed a contingency plan.

When I was leading a team of creative folk in the media I had a list of possible replacements for every role in my award winning team. I'd expect Mark Ashton to have the same. I'd have been amazed to discover that the chap from Newport or Robbie Fowler was on it.

But as I say, this discussion is inevitably speculation....apart from LJ not being up to getting us to the play offs!

Of course Ashton would have a list, put a reason above for a potential delay. There's no solid evidence that Flynn or Fowler are on the list of 8, both could have been interviewed in a first round of interviews, been talk on here about us potentially interviewing local managers to develop further ties on them etc and keep tabs on them so explains the likes of Flynn/Lowe. Fowler applied for Birmingham as well as a couple of other jobs, could be we decided just to have a chat with him while he was over here, not being sure when he's going back to Aus so why not have a 30 min/hour long chat with him? 

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48 minutes ago, Lez said:

If the board miss out on Chris hUghton now then they will have some real explaing to do.

"Look, we have to do what's best for this football club, and that includes making difficult decisions. Chris's application is testament to the profile of this football club. He was one of many fantastic candidates, but let's be clear, no one was a better fit for this football club than [insert unknown league 2 manager here]."

I'm not trying to imitate Codered, but in all seriousness that's the mind of "explaining " that you'll get.

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46 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

I read in David Woods history of our club that Chris Hughton played for Spurs against us in our last home game in the top flight.

Those of us who were there couldn't have imagined that over 40 years later we'd still be waiting for a return.

There would be a beautiful symmetry if he could be the person to lead us back.

Spurs me on.

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26 minutes ago, S_C said:

Funny how people work, interesting to see how the perceived delay of Hughton has been turned on Ashton.

Let's be fair, him getting a bashing is hardly unheard of, but I think it demonstrates the fickle nature of fans who either cant decide who to blame or, perhaps, always need someone to.

I've never quite understood the ire aimed at him. There's various unpleasant words people use to describe him, to be fair they may well be justified, but I really struggle to put my finger on what exactly it is he's done wrong during his time here. As of this moment, it seems, it's that his presence is apparently preventing the arrival of Hughton. Asking him to step aside because the previous head coach didn't achieve his goals seems, however you dress it up, kind of harsh.

It's important to state that id prefer Hughton and co to Ashton and co leading the club, that's more a compliment to the track record and experience Hughton brings than a jab at the latter. However, and whilst I haven't studied the accounts etc in depth to analyse his performance in facets other than the transfer market (though he seems to have done pretty well in maximising fees for outgoings), it continues to surprise me, and again highlights a fanbase which, quite simply, needs something to moan about, that his 'control' on transfers is used as a stick to beat him.

He oversees the clubs transfer policy. So what. To my eye transfers have been pretty impressive during his time, and I Include in that his first (I believe) input with the club which was to put together the squad which Cotterill steamrollered League One with. Please correct me if i'm wrong on that, it just seems very fashionable to praise the plucky and hard done by Steve Cotterill and criticise the evil genius behind the scenes who helped put it all together.

I actually think, if you look at the players we've recruited under him, you can make a case that we've signed above our means. When we signed Kalas I thought wow, what a signing that is. When we signed Dasilva I thought wow, what a signing that is. When we signed.. Palmer, Massengo, Benkovic, Wells, I thought wow, what a signing that is. Again happy to be corrected if wrong but, if it weren't for Arsenal pulling the plug at the last minute, we'd have signed one of the best young strikers in the country in Nketiah. Let's not forget Abraham, of course. The fact I don't think that about, for example, Afobe, illustrates how accustomed we have become to head turning signings. We finished 12th, let's not forget.

Yes, id take Hughton and x over Ashton and, amongst others, Lowe. But I think people get too hung up on this 'control' over transfers business. Unless you think (or can tell me..) that Ashton is literally buying the players he pleases, giving them directions to the training ground with a photo of the gaffer and instructions to introduce themselves on Monday morning, then what's the problem. What the problem isn't, and hasn't been for some time, is the squad. The squad is there. Sure it can and will be tweaked, but transfers are a team effort. If Ashton is at the helm of that, that's fine by me. Wherever we are with Hughton right now, if he didn't think the pieces were largely in place for a promotion challenge he wouldn't be in discussion to come here. Ashton deserves credit for that.

If there's a stumbling block for Hughton over Ashton's position you're presented with a very interesting dilemma. And it's one that i'm convinced would end with Hughton not coming. To blame Ashton for that, even if he is the cause, seems harsh. After all it is largely because of him that he's even considering it in the first place. 

Outstanding post @S_C though far too balanced and objective for OTIB.

I agree with nearly all you say.

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9 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Equally, I once accepted a job, had everything lined up, and had even signed a contract with them. I then got an email from another company who I had also interviewed with when generally job hunting. This second outfit were offering me a much improved deal (in my case essentially accelerating my career by 18 months, more money, and living and working in London instead of Salisbury). I phoned up the first company and after an awkward conversation which undoubtedly burned that bridge to the ground, I took the second job. Don't cry for the first company btw. It was for an entry level position for which they had hordes of second, third and fourth choices.

I've also seen a scenario where a company I worked for had a senior person due to join them. On the day he was supposed to start work he didn't turn up. Two hours later, at about lunchtime, it was discovered that he was in Boston, Massachusetts, and had taken a position at another firm without telling us. That was a bloke in his late 50's just shafting a company he'd agreed to join.

Essentially, my anecdotal and personal experience tells me that nothing is sealed until someone actually starts.

In the last year or so from the feedback I was given I was basically told I was in the last 2 for a job but didn't get it, kept feint hope because a few months earlier found out another job I got to the last 3 in the guy who had been offered the job turned it down as he had 2 offers so kept that small hope. 

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9 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Equally, I once accepted a job, had everything lined up, and had even signed a contract with them. I then got an email from another company who I had also interviewed with when generally job hunting. This second outfit were offering me a much improved deal (in my case essentially accelerating my career by 18 months, more money, and living and working in London instead of Salisbury). I phoned up the first company and after an awkward conversation which undoubtedly burned that bridge to the ground, I took the second job. Don't cry for the first company btw. It was for an entry level position for which they had hordes of second, third and fourth choices.

I've also seen a scenario where a company I worked for had a senior person due to join them. On the day he was supposed to start work he didn't turn up. Two hours later, at about lunchtime, it was discovered that he was in Boston, Massachusetts, and had taken a position at another firm without telling us. That was a bloke in his late 50's just shafting a company he'd agreed to join.

Essentially, my anecdotal and personal experience tells me that nothing is sealed until someone actually starts.

That's exactly why I didn't follow Joe Bryan's career when he joined Villa. 

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I work as an IT manager in a well-known Financial Services company based in Swindon and I interview people applying to work in my department. 
we are bound by HR rules, which force us to advertise every vacancy externally even if there is a natural internal candidate who I know would suit the role. 
interviews are carefully scored in order to try and break the ‘jobs for the boys’ ethos which was prevalent in the 1980s. 
this means that if you are good at competency based interviews then you’re in. Evidence of achievements only get you an interview and no further. A clever person could blatantly lie in their CV and if good at interviews would end up trumping the ready-made candidates that you KNOW should get the position. 

I cannot believe that this system exists in football. Surely it’s only a large corporation thing?

How can our managers job all hang on an interview? Surely experience and achievements trump a 30 minute blagable performance with quick responses and clever words?
Big corporations are bound by equality rules - are football clubs bound by the same?

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1 minute ago, Lrrr said:

In the last year or so from the feedback I was given I was basically told I was in the last 2 for a job but didn't get it, kept feint hope because a few months earlier found out another job I got to the last 3 in the guy who had been offered the job turned it down as he had 2 offers so kept that small hope. 

Job I have right now I have because a guy who had signed a contract to do it decided to go somewhere else instead.

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5 minutes ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

I work as an IT manager in a well-known Financial Services company based in Swindon and I interview people applying to work in my department. 
we are bound by HR rules, which force us to advertise every vacancy externally even if there is a natural internal candidate who I know would suit the role. 
interviews are carefully scored in order to try and break the ‘jobs for the boys’ ethos which was prevalent in the 1980s. 
this means that if you are good at competency based interviews then you’re in. Evidence of achievements only get you an interview and no further. A clever person could blatantly lie in their CV and if good at interviews would end up trumping the ready-made candidates that you KNOW should get the position. 

I cannot believe that this system exists in football. Surely it’s only a large corporation thing?

How can our managers job all hang on an interview? Surely experience and achievements trump a 30 minute blagable performance with quick responses and clever words?
Big corporations are bound by equality rules - are football clubs bound by the same?

Didn't LJ only get the job because of his interview presentation. Im sure that was posted somewhere on here recently. It certainly wasnt because of his past glories!!

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1 minute ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

How can iur managers job all hang on an interview? Surely experience and achievements trump a 30 minute blagable performance with quick responses and clever words?

Vision and plan for how they want to operate in the role totally fictitious situation but just using real managers as an example, going into a round of interviews Hughton could be favourite

Hughton - 'To get Bristol City into the play offs I want you to rip up your entire club structure for me, give me a net spend of £15m and I want you to have a category 1 academy despite the extra cost it will incur'

Cook - 'I think you've actually got most of what I need in place at the moment to get the club in the play offs, I'd only want the funds raised by player sales to reinvest'

Going into interviews experience, achievements etc Hughton would be a long way ahead on each but because arguably he could get better offers he may want more from us to make it worth his time to come to us. Which situation potentially appeals better to a club in times of financial hardship?

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Just now, marmite said:

Didn't LJ only get the job because of his interview presentation. Im sure that was posted somewhere on here recently. It certainly wasnt because of his past glories!!

I heard from a mate who is close to the back room activities at Chelsea that we got Tammy due to LJs ‘brilliant’ presentation to their board which convinced them to let us have him over some Premiership rivals who were also in for him at the time. 
I haven’t heard that about his actual appointment though. 

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3 minutes ago, marmite said:

Didn't LJ only get the job because of his interview presentation. Im sure that was posted somewhere on here recently. It certainly wasnt because of his past glories!!

Ashton said he had no doubts in recommending him to the board after his presentation, whether or not the board/Lansdown would have gone for him anyway is another question

Just now, bcfcredandwhite said:

I heard from a mate who is close to the back room activities at Chelsea that we got Tammy due to LJs ‘brilliant’ presentation to their board which convinced them to let us have him over some Premiership rivals who were also in for him at the time. 
I haven’t heard that about his actual appointment though. 

Its the same reason we almost got Nketiah and it coming down to player preference in choosing Leeds

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31 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

That’s fair - but then what have they been doing for the last 3 weeks just to get to this point, when a faster process would have given the new incumbent a few games to finish the season - and why do other clubs manage to not turn everything into a saga?

Best to wait until the end of the season to see who becomes available.   They could have been waiting for a good candidate to have a think about it - perhaps Eddie Howe 

we have seen clubs pull the trigger a week or 2 ago so worth the wait.  I guarantee if CH has been agreed he would have done his homework on us and our players so no point in rushing for our last few games imo. I would have been more upset if they had done that 

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3 minutes ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

I heard from a mate who is close to the back room activities at Chelsea that we got Tammy due to LJs ‘brilliant’ presentation to their board which convinced them to let us have him over some Premiership rivals who were also in for him at the time. 
I haven’t heard that about his actual appointment though. 

The lad could certainly spin a yarn.

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53 minutes ago, S_C said:

Funny how people work, interesting to see how the perceived delay of Hughton has been turned on Ashton.

Let's be fair, him getting a bashing is hardly unheard of, but I think it demonstrates the fickle nature of fans who either cant decide who to blame or, perhaps, always need someone to.

I've never quite understood the ire aimed at him. There's various unpleasant words people use to describe him, to be fair they may well be justified, but I really struggle to put my finger on what exactly it is he's done wrong during his time here.

I'm not one to particularly criticise Mark Ashton. From the little I hear from the football world he's respected as a good negotiator. 

If you hadn't used the word 'fickle' I wouldn't have replied. But here's my response.

City fans aren't fickle - posters on here are loyal supporters of a club that has achieved next to nothing that the football world values in recent decades. But they're still here and have been here considerably longer than Mark Ashton, or indeed the Lansdowns. If Mark Ashton gets flack it might be for at least two reasons.

First he comes across as patronising and doesn't appear to have any connection to the fan base at all.

Second, the club is run by a board of four people. Doug Harman gets a free pass as few people know who he is. Steve is being held to account on another (incendiary) thread. Jon is Steve's son and I'm not sure many believe he does anything other than what his Dad wants. Which leaves Mark. Which is why people focus on his influence, and why, when things aren't going so well, he gets questioned.

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11 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

Ashton said he had no doubts in recommending him to the board after his presentation, whether or not the board/Lansdown would have gone for him anyway is another question

It's not much of a question though is it? As I understood it Lee Johnson was the only candidate considered for the job...Steve L had been mentoring him...or am I wrong?

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3 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

It's not much of a question though is it? As I understood it Lee Johnson was the only candidate considered for the job...Steve L had been mentoring him...or am I wrong?

So are you saying that LJ was told to apply, Ashton was told to interview him, but SL was always going to appoint him? So the club were just going through the motions.

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35 minutes ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

I work as an IT manager in a well-known Financial Services company based in Swindon and I interview people applying to work in my department. 
we are bound by HR rules, which force us to advertise every vacancy externally even if there is a natural internal candidate who I know would suit the role. 
interviews are carefully scored in order to try and break the ‘jobs for the boys’ ethos which was prevalent in the 1980s. 
this means that if you are good at competency based interviews then you’re in. Evidence of achievements only get you an interview and no further. A clever person could blatantly lie in their CV and if good at interviews would end up trumping the ready-made candidates that you KNOW should get the position. 

I cannot believe that this system exists in football. Surely it’s only a large corporation thing?

How can our managers job all hang on an interview? Surely experience and achievements trump a 30 minute blagable performance with quick responses and clever words?
Big corporations are bound by equality rules - are football clubs bound by the same?

I'm sorry mate

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4 minutes ago, marmite said:

So are you saying that LJ was told to apply, Ashton was told to interview him, but SL was always going to appoint him? So the club were just going through the motions.

I'm not saying that with any certainty, none of us knows for sure, but isn't that what happened? Happy to be corrected.

SL is reported to have helped LJ get the job at Oldham, LJ has spoken of SL's role as a mentor. In interviews after LJ's appointment Ashton said that he had a list of prospective candidates, the board had a list, that they were very similar and it was clear that Lee Johnson was the stand-out candidate, who he was happy to recommend.

Which given LJ's track record at the time seemed a remarkable coincidence. But maybe, of course, it was just that. I don't recall any discussion of other candidates being interviewed. But again, happy to be corrected.

 

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28 minutes ago, marmite said:

So are you saying that LJ was told to apply, Ashton was told to interview him, but SL was always going to appoint him? So the club were just going through the motions.

No way. We are far too professional for that and there is no way we wouldn’t do our due diligence whilst considering all other candidates equally. 

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Really don’t know why people are throwing fussed over us holding interviews along with Hughtons. Ashton was probably asked to do this and the other 7 candidates could also be very good fits and potentially better than Hughton. Yes I would prefer Hughton to get done ASAP but I have full faith in this board to get it right like they did with Johnson.

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