Chris Hughton

[Cov 77]

2 minutes ago, Charlie BCFC said:

Really don’t know why people are throwing fussed over us holding interviews along with Hughtons. Ashton was probably asked to do this and the other 7 candidates could also be very good fits and potentially better than Hughton. Yes I would prefer Hughton to get done ASAP but I have full faith in this board to get it right like they did with Johnson.

[RedRaw]

2 minutes ago, Charlie BCFC said:

but I have full faith in this board to get it right like they did with Johnson.

[Red Exile]

4 minutes ago, Charlie BCFC said:

Really don’t know why people are throwing fussed over us holding interviews along with Hughtons. Ashton was probably asked to do this and the other 7 candidates could also be very good fits and potentially better than Hughton. Yes I would prefer Hughton to get done ASAP but I have full faith in this board to get it right like they did with Johnson.

...you have brilliantly exposed the fault-line on here!

I hope they get it right this time.

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

6 minutes ago, Kibs said:

No way. We are far too professional for that and there is no way we wouldn’t do our due diligence whilst considering all other candidates equally. 

This is the professional club that sold Andy Cole without a sell on fee, and ended up with the square root of **** all, when Newcastle sold him.

[ChippenhamRed]

1 hour ago, Fordy62 said:

Do you not listen To OSIB podcast?

Sometimes but not always!

[S_C]

24 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

I'm not one to particularly criticise Mark Ashton. From the little I hear from the football world he's respected as a good negotiator. 

If you hadn't used the word 'fickle' I wouldn't have replied. But here's my response.

City fans aren't fickle - posters on here are loyal supporters of a club that has achieved next to nothing that the football world values in recent decades. But they're still here and have been here considerably longer than Mark Ashton, or indeed the Lansdowns. If Mark Ashton gets flack it might be for at least two reasons.

First he comes across as patronising and doesn't appear to have any connection to the fan base at all.

Second, the club is run by a board of four people. Doug Harman gets a free pass as few people know who he is. Steve is being held to account on another (incendiary) thread. Jon is Steve's son and I'm not sure many believe he does anything other than what his Dad wants. Which leaves Mark. Which is why people focus on his influence, and why, when things aren't going so well, he gets questioned.

Thanks for response.

In regard to fickle, staying loyal to your local football club doesn't really come into it. The idea that someone would stop supporting their home town team because they weren't very good isn't something i've really come across. You go to games when you can irrespective of manager or success, that's just what you do. Clearly success has an impact on enthusiasm of that support, but i've never really viewed the support as optional or dependent on factors. People might stop going to games for a number of reasons but id be surprised to hear they stop identifying as a fan purely because the club doesn't win things. Some do, i'm sure, but I wouldn't think enough to warrant brownie points for those not doing so.

In regards to patronising, as I said in the original post i'm not necessarily questioning some of the less complimentary things that are said about him. Personally i've never really found him patronising, I actually thought LJ much less likeable which, considering he is apparently a lovely bloke, is a decent achievement.

In regard to last point, sure, don't disagree with that. I'm just saying that, from my point of view, he doesn't deserve the majority of questioning he gets. Just because he is there doesn't mean he deserves questioning, which appears to be your logic?

[Bristol Oil Services]

5 hours ago, JonDolman said:

I think the club set up has worked very well.

Could have been done better for sure. 

Then it has only done "well," thus far, I would say. Well, for us, we might say. 

In our new, modernised "set up" the best we have managed so far, in five Championship seasons, is 8th with 70 points. Millwall have had three seasons, finishing 8th twice (once with 72 points).

Preston have managed a 7th placed finish (73 points). We have finished higher than them once in five attempts.

Brentford, well, we know they have out-performed us. 

 

That's three clubs like us that are not big shots in this division and arrived into it on the up and generally in a "good place." I take little comfort from us doing better than bigger clubs newly relegated from the Prem with multiple challenges and problems (which we do not face) and generally not in a "good place". We should be doing better than bigger clubs that are dysfunctional. 

 

When our "set up" - backed by SL's largesse and 20,000 plus crowds - works "very well" we will finish above Millwall and Preston, and the dysfunctional ex-PL clubs, and we will finish in the top six. 

 

 

[Monkeh]

19 minutes ago, Mike Hunt-Hertz said:

This is the professional club that sold Andy Cole without a sell on fee, and ended up with the square root of **** all, when Newcastle sold him.

Whats that got to do with the current set up, as far as I'm aware no one at the club now was there in 1994 and had anything to do with transfers,

If that's the best example of the club being unprofessional then you need to get out of the past 

[Fordy62]

11 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Sometimes but not always!

Basically they discussed that Hughton was the sensible and probably best appointment. Although bizarrely with that in mind, not the most exciting.... and I completely agree. 

When asked to consider whether they’d take a 50/50 of Europe in 2 years or league one, one of the contributors, I think it was Jamie, rather than @petehinton, said that he’d role that dice. 

I definitely agree that Hughton is the best but not the most exciting candidate. 

It was a really good episode. It’s title is Chaos vs Hughton. 

[maxjak]

25 minutes ago, Mike Hunt-Hertz said:

This is the professional club that sold Andy Cole without a sell on fee, and ended up with the square root of **** all, when Newcastle sold him.

That was a lifetime ago.........and anyone can make a mistake, the secret is not to repeat it. Hence the sell on arrangements  for Webster, Kelly. Brownhill etc.

[Bat Fastard]

12 minutes ago, maxjak said:

That was a lifetime ago.........and anyone can make a mistake, the secret is not to repeat it. Hence the sell on arrangements  for Webster, Kelly. Brownhill etc.

The forum does not forget and never offers forgiveness!!

Daft really.

[exAtyeoMax]

2 hours ago, S_C said:

Funny how people work, interesting to see how the perceived delay of Hughton has been turned on Ashton.

Let's be fair, him getting a bashing is hardly unheard of, but I think it demonstrates the fickle nature of fans who either cant decide who to blame or, perhaps, always need someone to.

I've never quite understood the ire aimed at him. There's various unpleasant words people use to describe him, to be fair they may well be justified, but I really struggle to put my finger on what exactly it is he's done wrong during his time here. As of this moment, it seems, it's that his presence is apparently preventing the arrival of Hughton. Asking him to step aside because the previous head coach didn't achieve his goals seems, however you dress it up, kind of harsh.

It's important to state that id prefer Hughton and co to Ashton and co leading the club, that's more a compliment to the track record and experience Hughton brings than a jab at the latter. However, and whilst I haven't studied the accounts etc in depth to analyse his performance in facets other than the transfer market (though he seems to have done pretty well in maximising fees for outgoings), it continues to surprise me, and again highlights a fanbase which, quite simply, needs something to moan about, that his 'control' on transfers is used as a stick to beat him.

He oversees the clubs transfer policy. So what. To my eye transfers have been pretty impressive during his time, and I Include in that his first (I believe) input with the club which was to put together the squad which Cotterill steamrollered League One with. Please correct me if i'm wrong on that, it just seems very fashionable to praise the plucky and hard done by Steve Cotterill and criticise the evil genius behind the scenes who helped put it all together.

I actually think, if you look at the players we've recruited under him, you can make a case that we've signed above our means. When we signed Kalas I thought wow, what a signing that is. When we signed Dasilva I thought wow, what a signing that is. When we signed.. Palmer, Massengo, Benkovic, Wells, I thought wow, what a signing that is. Again happy to be corrected if wrong but, if it weren't for Arsenal pulling the plug at the last minute, we'd have signed one of the best young strikers in the country in Nketiah. Let's not forget Abraham, of course. The fact I don't think that about, for example, Afobe, illustrates how accustomed we have become to head turning signings. We finished 12th, let's not forget.

Yes, id take Hughton and x over Ashton and, amongst others, Lowe. But I think people get too hung up on this 'control' over transfers business. Unless you think (or can tell me..) that Ashton is literally buying the players he pleases, giving them directions to the training ground with a photo of the gaffer and instructions to introduce themselves on Monday morning, then what's the problem. What the problem isn't, and hasn't been for some time, is the squad. The squad is there. Sure it can and will be tweaked, but transfers are a team effort. If Ashton is at the helm of that, that's fine by me. Wherever we are with Hughton right now, if he didn't think the pieces were largely in place for a promotion challenge he wouldn't be in discussion to come here. Ashton deserves credit for that.

If there's a stumbling block for Hughton over Ashton's position you're presented with a very interesting dilemma. And it's one that i'm convinced would end with Hughton not coming. To blame Ashton for that, even if he is the cause, seems unfair. After all it is largely because of him that he's even considering it in the first place. 

I always thought Keith Burt (or whoever it was) was responsible for the signings that won League one when Cotts was here, I didn’t think MA had any input at that time. The year before, maybe.

[Harry]

2 hours ago, S_C said:

He oversees the clubs transfer policy. So what. To my eye transfers have been pretty impressive during his time, and I Include in that his first (I believe) input with the club which was to put together the squad which Cotterill steamrollered League One with. Please correct me if i'm wrong on that

 

Hi S_C. I just want to pick up the above quoted comment in your post. 
MA was not responsible for the recruitment in Cotterill’s tenure. He had absolutely zero influence on the signings that won league 1. 
 

MA was at City as a ‘consultant’, representing his recruitment company ‘Tactical Change’. He was here for a few months in 2012, during the McInnes era. He was gone again before SOD arrived. 
 

What he ‘implemented’ during his brief spell, was to essentially sell Scout 7 (some players analytics software) to the club, and bring in a couple of ‘analysts’ to interrogate this software. 

The recruitment under Cotterill, which helped win the league, was nothing to do with this software. 
SOD and Cotterill were ‘old school’ in terms of their scouting philosophy (remember too that Keith Burt was Chief Scout for both of these too). 
It was SOD & Burt who brought in Flint, Williams, Pack, Fielding, Jet & Wagstaff. 
I can 100% confirm that none of these were anything to do with Ashton and his software. They were all from Burt or Sod’s own knowledge and/or contacts. 
Likewise, the next summer, Cotterill & Burt were 100% behind Wilbraham, Smith, Freeman, Ayling, Elliott. 
Again, 100%, none of those names were linked in any way whatsoever with MA’s involvement. 
In fact, I’ll tell you also 100% that 4 of those names came directly from personal recommendations in conversations with SOD & Burt, with whom I was in regular contact with at the time. 

Only upon MA’s return to the club did he then implement the model that’s now in place. Prior to that it was all very much the old fashioned way of having an experienced head scout working closely with the manager. 
 

So just to absolutely clarify, MA had absolutely zero influence in any of the transfers which built the L1 winning team. 
 

[BUTOR]

So 88 pages... where are we? 

Missing out on/ rejecting Hughton would feel like the same old bristol city I’ve been following my whole life. And I was convinced we’ve turned a corner. Quite simply, this appointment is the biggest and most important I can remember. I have spoken to plenty who say their season ticket depends on it. Some who have been going for 40 years. And after many years, my renewal probably does too. I never thought I’d say that but put simply, this is the best opportunity to go to the next level we have ever had as a club, this appointment is everything. Chris Hughton is perfect for our football club and our city, make him our manager.

I can’t deal with another false dawn. As a supporter of many seasons, many leagues and years, a cheap appointment would make me feel like a mug.

 

 

[S_C]

6 minutes ago, Harry said:

Hi S_C. I just want to pick up the above quoted comment in your post. 
MA was not responsible for the recruitment in Cotterill’s tenure. He had absolutely zero influence on the signings that won league 1. 
 

MA was at City as a ‘consultant’, representing his recruitment company ‘Tactical Change’. He was here for a few months in 2012, during the McInnes era. He was gone again before SOD arrived. 
 

What he ‘implemented’ during his brief spell, was to essentially sell Scout 7 (some players analytics software) to the club, and bring in a couple of ‘analysts’ to interrogate this software. 

The recruitment under Cotterill, which helped win the league, was nothing to do with this software. 
SOD and Cotterill were ‘old school’ in terms of their scouting philosophy (remember too that Keith Burt was Chief Scout for both of these too). 
It was SOD & Burt who brought in Flint, Williams, Pack, Fielding, Jet & Wagstaff. 
I can 100% confirm that none of these were anything to do with Ashton and his software. They were all from Burt or Sod’s own knowledge and/or contacts. 
Likewise, the next summer, Cotterill & Burt were 100% behind Wilbraham, Smith, Freeman, Ayling, Elliott. 
Again, 100%, none of those names were linked in any way whatsoever with MA’s involvement. 
In fact, I’ll tell you also 100% that 4 of those names came directly from personal recommendations in conversations with SOD & Burt, with whom I was in regular contact with at the time. 

Only upon MA’s return to the club did he then implement the model that’s now in place. Prior to that it was all very much the old fashioned way of having an experienced head scout working closely with the manager. 
 

So just to absolutely clarify, MA had absolutely zero influence in any of the transfers which built the L1 winning team. 
 

Thanks for the correction on that, Harry.

I remember reading that he was involved with recruitment during that summer as a consultant, also thought whatever it was id read directly referenced the recruitment of players for that ultimately successful campaign. Obviously either it or I have got that wrong!

No problem with being set straight though, interesting to hear.

[S_C]

26 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I always thought Keith Burt (or whoever it was) was responsible for the signings that won League one when Cotts was here, I didn’t think MA had any input at that time. The year before, maybe.

Yeah appears I got that wrong, please see Harry's post below your quoted one above.

Apologies for error.

[red panda]

1 hour ago, Red Exile said:

...you have brilliantly exposed the fault-line on here!

I hope they get it right this time.

From the perspective of where we were when they appointed LJ, I think the Board did get it right.  He established us in the Championship (something many of us would have gladly accepted at the time) and then turned us into play-off contenders.  But we remained contenders rather than actually making the play-offs, and things started going pear shaped, so it was time to move on to someone who can hopefully take us to the next stage.

It's perhaps not a popular view here, that the board did get it right with LJ.  And I sincerely hope we don't find ourselves in Ipswich's situation, realising with hindsight how good the previous manager actually was.

[milo1111]

23 minutes ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

So 88 pages... where are we? 

Missing out on/ rejecting Hughton would feel like the same old bristol city I’ve been following my whole life. And I was convinced we’ve turned a corner. Quite simply, this appointment is the biggest and most important I can remember. I have spoken to plenty who say their season ticket depends on it. Some who have been going for 40 years. And after many years, my renewal probably does too. I never thought I’d say that but put simply, this is the best opportunity to go to the next level we have ever had as a club, this appointment is everything. Chris Hughton is perfect for our football club and our city, make him our manager.

I can’t deal with another false dawn. As a supporter of many seasons, many leagues and years, a cheap appointment would make me feel like a mug.

 

 

This is exactly how I feel mate. If we go for the cheap option / yes man / puppet I will feel so let down. 
 

it’s time to kick on. Stand still and you get relegated in this business. 

[red panda]

29 minutes ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

So 88 pages... where are we? 

Missing out on/ rejecting Hughton would feel like the same old bristol city I’ve been following my whole life. And I was convinced we’ve turned a corner. Quite simply, this appointment is the biggest and most important I can remember. I have spoken to plenty who say their season ticket depends on it. Some who have been going for 40 years. And after many years, my renewal probably does too. I never thought I’d say that but put simply, this is the best opportunity to go to the next level we have ever had as a club, this appointment is everything. Chris Hughton is perfect for our football club and our city, make him our manager.

I can’t deal with another false dawn. As a supporter of many seasons, many leagues and years, a cheap appointment would make me feel like a mug.

 

 

Better than 1975/76??

 

I agree about CH though

[Harry]

13 minutes ago, S_C said:

Thanks for the correction on that, Harry.

I remember reading that he was involved with recruitment during that summer as a consultant, also thought whatever it was id read directly referenced the recruitment of players for that ultimately successful campaign. Obviously either it or I have got that wrong!

No problem with being set straight though, interesting to hear.

No problem fella. I can understand your assumption, because it was indeed written in the press briefing when he rejoined in 2016. But as always, don’t believe everything you read - there’s always an element of ‘flannelling’. 
 

The quote in the press was that “Ashton had established the systems that were used to good effect in the summer 14 window”.  
As said, he basically brought in the scouting / analytics software, which Sod, Cotterill & Burt had no interest in. 

The same press briefing also claimed he was responsible for the Academy gaining Cat 2 status. 
Again, this is false. That was Amy Kington. 
 

Both examples were basically used to convince fans that we’d just employed someone who’d already done ‘great’ work for us. He hadn’t. All he’s done was sell us some software. It was just some positive spin. 

[Lez]

34 minutes ago, Harry said:

No problem fella. I can understand your assumption, because it was indeed written in the press briefing when he rejoined in 2016. But as always, don’t believe everything you read - there’s always an element of ‘flannelling’. 
 

The quote in the press was that “Ashton had established the systems that were used to good effect in the summer 14 window”.  
As said, he basically brought in the scouting / analytics software, which Sod, Cotterill & Burt had no interest in. 

The same press briefing also claimed he was responsible for the Academy gaining Cat 2 status. 
Again, this is false. That was Amy Kington. 
 

Both examples were basically used to convince fans that we’d just employed someone who’d already done ‘great’ work for us. He hadn’t. All he’s done was sell us some software. It was just some positive spin. 

Mark Ashton always strikes me as a slimy snake oil salesman.

[cityal]

16 minutes ago, milo1111 said:

This is exactly how I feel mate. If we go for the cheap option / yes man / puppet I will feel so let down. 
 

it’s time to kick on. Stand still and you get relegated in this business. 

I am pretty certain that both Guardiola & Klopp do not set out to disagree with their bosses, as far as i can tell they are brilliant leaders because they work so well in a team that INCLUDES their CEO/Owner- by your definition are these managers to be considered "yes men"?

 

[milo1111]

13 minutes ago, cityal said:

I am pretty certain that both Guardiola & Klopp do not set out to disagree with their bosses, as far as i can tell they are brilliant leaders because they work so well in a team that INCLUDES their CEO/Owner- by your definition are these managers to be considered "yes men"?

 

Im pretty certain their bosses know they are quality managers and let them make the decisions and just trust them to get on with it without interference. Do you think happens at our club???

[Harry]

38 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Thanks for this H, I was one who also thought MA had something to do with the L1 team. At what point was he involved as a consultant before joining us from Oxford ? He has quoted many times he has worked with us before. What ddi he do to impress Sl to give him such a role when he had nothing to really recommend him before. 

 

Summer to Winter 2012. 
It was pre-oxford 

[Lez]

20 minutes ago, Harry said:

Summer to Winter 2012. 
It was pre-oxford 

Let's be honest Harry. Ashton has done a good job here. He has helped the club develop off the pitch with a very efficient and professional structure. But he isnt the top man, and while that's the case he is always at risk.....it wouldn't surprise me if and when this club FINALLY gets a big name manager that Mr Ashton becomes surplus and reaches his own personal ceiling.

[Superjack]

2 hours ago, Harry said:

Hi S_C. I just want to pick up the above quoted comment in your post. 
MA was not responsible for the recruitment in Cotterill’s tenure. He had absolutely zero influence on the signings that won league 1. 
 

MA was at City as a ‘consultant’, representing his recruitment company ‘Tactical Change’. He was here for a few months in 2012, during the McInnes era. He was gone again before SOD arrived. 
 

What he ‘implemented’ during his brief spell, was to essentially sell Scout 7 (some players analytics software) to the club, and bring in a couple of ‘analysts’ to interrogate this software. 

The recruitment under Cotterill, which helped win the league, was nothing to do with this software. 
SOD and Cotterill were ‘old school’ in terms of their scouting philosophy (remember too that Keith Burt was Chief Scout for both of these too). 
It was SOD & Burt who brought in Flint, Williams, Pack, Fielding, Jet & Wagstaff. 
I can 100% confirm that none of these were anything to do with Ashton and his software. They were all from Burt or Sod’s own knowledge and/or contacts. 
Likewise, the next summer, Cotterill & Burt were 100% behind Wilbraham, Smith, Freeman, Ayling, Elliott. 
Again, 100%, none of those names were linked in any way whatsoever with MA’s involvement. 
In fact, I’ll tell you also 100% that 4 of those names came directly from personal recommendations in conversations with SOD & Burt, with whom I was in regular contact with at the time. 

Only upon MA’s return to the club did he then implement the model that’s now in place. Prior to that it was all very much the old fashioned way of having an experienced head scout working closely with the manager. 
 

So just to absolutely clarify, MA had absolutely zero influence in any of the transfers which built the L1 winning team. 
 

Saved me a lot of typing there. 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Harry said:

No problem fella. I can understand your assumption, because it was indeed written in the press briefing when he rejoined in 2016. But as always, don’t believe everything you read - there’s always an element of ‘flannelling’. 
 

The quote in the press was that “Ashton had established the systems that were used to good effect in the summer 14 window”.  
As said, he basically brought in the scouting / analytics software, which Sod, Cotterill & Burt had no interest in. 

The same press briefing also claimed he was responsible for the Academy gaining Cat 2 status. 
Again, this is false. That was Amy Kington. 
 

Both examples were basically used to convince fans that we’d just employed someone who’d already done ‘great’ work for us. He hadn’t. All he’s done was sell us some software. It was just some positive spin. 

Been driving to Cornwall tonight. Rain and fog over the moor, bloody awful. You saved me a lot of typing tonight. Thanks. 

1 hour ago, Harry said:

Summer to Winter 2012. 
It was pre-oxford 

It’s interesting what you can find on LinkedIn, House etc.

Tactical Change isn’t the only business he’s had

Calibre Sports

Grove Life

Employees followed him between several!!!

I’ve no doubt he’s a very good negotiator and sporting operations administrator but we pay him handsomely too, best part of £0.5m pa if you look at Director Salaries!

 

[havanatopia]

5 hours ago, Harry said:

Hi S_C. I just want to pick up the above quoted comment in your post. 
MA was not responsible for the recruitment in Cotterill’s tenure. He had absolutely zero influence on the signings that won league 1. 
 

MA was at City as a ‘consultant’, representing his recruitment company ‘Tactical Change’. He was here for a few months in 2012, during the McInnes era. He was gone again before SOD arrived. 
 

What he ‘implemented’ during his brief spell, was to essentially sell Scout 7 (some players analytics software) to the club, and bring in a couple of ‘analysts’ to interrogate this software. 

The recruitment under Cotterill, which helped win the league, was nothing to do with this software. 
SOD and Cotterill were ‘old school’ in terms of their scouting philosophy (remember too that Keith Burt was Chief Scout for both of these too). 
It was SOD & Burt who brought in Flint, Williams, Pack, Fielding, Jet & Wagstaff. 
I can 100% confirm that none of these were anything to do with Ashton and his software. They were all from Burt or Sod’s own knowledge and/or contacts. 
Likewise, the next summer, Cotterill & Burt were 100% behind Wilbraham, Smith, Freeman, Ayling, Elliott. 
Again, 100%, none of those names were linked in any way whatsoever with MA’s involvement. 
In fact, I’ll tell you also 100% that 4 of those names came directly from personal recommendations in conversations with SOD & Burt, with whom I was in regular contact with at the time. 

Only upon MA’s return to the club did he then implement the model that’s now in place. Prior to that it was all very much the old fashioned way of having an experienced head scout working closely with the manager. 
 

So just to absolutely clarify, MA had absolutely zero influence in any of the transfers which built the L1 winning team. 
 

Which, overall, would you suggest is the best recruitment system Harry?

[Major Isewater]

9 hours ago, mozo said:

Don't worry guys, all is well...

 

Ah , loving DeAlien .

[Major Isewater]

7 hours ago, Lez said:

Mark Ashton always strikes me as a slimy snake oil salesman.

Which is perfect in the world of slimy snake oil agents , club owners and directors.