headhunter Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 My actual job is in my name on here. I go and find [not pluck from a database] people to do a particular role. My client will have a salary budget in mind that they wish to pay. They will also have a list of objectives they want the new appointee to achieve. I must also ensure that those I present for consideration fit the culture [DNA] of the business. I can always find people who fit the budget but have to be honest and say they won't fulfill the expectation - "you've asked me for a BMW but you can only afford a top of the range Ford" .... what do you want to do. The powers that be at BCFC are going through a similar process in their mind right now with Mark Ashton in my seat so to speak. If it is one of these 4 I will be underwhelmed: LOWE, WELLENS, ROBINS or FLYNN. Without doubt, in my mind, Hughton is the man for the job but to that credible contender shortlist you could add Jokanovic, Wagner & Karanka. I could make a case for Paul Cook and for McCarthy I would say he fits the BMW profile but not a sparkly brand new one!!! https://www.podbean.com/lsw/Forever%2BBristol%2BCity/s-7pLntL1Hyj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 15 minutes ago, headhunter said: My actual job is in my name on here. I go and find [not pluck from a database] people to do a particular role. My client will have a salary budget in mind that they wish to pay. They will also have a list of objectives they want the new appointee to achieve. I must also ensure that those I present for consideration fit the culture [DNA] of the business. I can always find people who fit the budget but have to be honest and say they won't fulfill the expectation - "you've asked me for a BMW but you can only afford a top of the range Ford" .... what do you want to do. The powers that be at BCFC are going through a similar process in their mind right now with Mark Ashton in my seat so to speak. If it is one of these 4 I will be underwhelmed: LOWE, WELLENS, ROBINS or FLYNN. Without doubt, in my mind, Hughton is the man for the job but to that credible contender shortlist you could add Jokanovic, Wagner & Karanka. I could make a case for Paul Cook and for McCarthy I would say he fits the BMW profile but not a sparkly brand new one!!! https://www.podbean.com/lsw/Forever%2BBristol%2BCity/s-7pLntL1Hyj Out of curiosity, how much do you actually know about Lowe, Wellens, Robins or Flynn as individuals? As you say, it is all about finding people to do a particular job and fit within a particular culture. None of those four names would excite me on the face of it but, when it comes down to it, that is because I know nothing about them. Assuming you aren't a football headhunter and don't know the individuals in the sport itself, do you really have the information to know if they would be poor appointments? Of your "BMWs", I'd agree Hughton's record is impeccable, Jokanovic is impressive and I'd be fine with Paul Cook However Karanka laboured to get an expensive Boro side promoted and then failed completely with an expensively assembled Forest squad. I'd much rather we took Lowe, Wellens, Robins or Flynn - who might succeed - over a man who has demonstrated he probably would not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingswood Robin Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 Those 4 may well be lovely people and may become a success at this level. However, I think we've had enough trial and error for a while, it's time for some tried and tested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted July 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 10 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said: Out of curiosity, how much do you actually know about Lowe, Wellens, Robins or Flynn as individuals? As you say, it is all about finding people to do a particular job and fit within a particular culture. None of those four names would excite me on the face of it but, when it comes down to it, that is because I know nothing about them. Assuming you aren't a football headhunter and don't know the individuals in the sport itself, do you really have the information to know if they would be poor appointments? Of your "BMWs", I'd agree Hughton's record is impeccable, Jokanovic is impressive and I'd be fine with Paul Cook However Karanka laboured to get an expensive Boro side promoted and then failed completely with an expensively assembled Forest squad. I'd much rather we took Lowe, Wellens, Robins or Flynn - who might succeed - over a man who has demonstrated he probably would not. Know nothing about the 4 at all ...... you are right, I am not. I was just giving a view as a City fan. If I was in the business [of football] I'd do what I do in my real job and make a case for the best of that group. Best CV doesn't always mean best fit with culture and that oft used phrase must be a graduate is one I regularly challenge, i.e. someone might have an HNC, great career and is a good fit as well. That latter criteria [fit] will determine City's next appointment as much, if not more than, anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 52 minutes ago, headhunter said: My actual job is in my name on here. I go and find [not pluck from a database] people to do a particular role. My client will have a salary budget in mind that they wish to pay. They will also have a list of objectives they want the new appointee to achieve. I must also ensure that those I present for consideration fit the culture [DNA] of the business. I can always find people who fit the budget but have to be honest and say they won't fulfill the expectation - "you've asked me for a BMW but you can only afford a top of the range Ford" .... what do you want to do. The powers that be at BCFC are going through a similar process in their mind right now with Mark Ashton in my seat so to speak. If it is one of these 4 I will be underwhelmed: LOWE, WELLENS, ROBINS or FLYNN. Without doubt, in my mind, Hughton is the man for the job but to that credible contender shortlist you could add Jokanovic, Wagner & Karanka. I could make a case for Paul Cook and for McCarthy I would say he fits the BMW profile but not a sparkly brand new one!!! https://www.podbean.com/lsw/Forever%2BBristol%2BCity/s-7pLntL1Hyj As a matter of interest. Who would you be whelmed by? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 57 minutes ago, headhunter said: My actual job is in my name on here. I go and find [not pluck from a database] people to do a particular role. My client will have a salary budget in mind that they wish to pay. They will also have a list of objectives they want the new appointee to achieve. I must also ensure that those I present for consideration fit the culture [DNA] of the business. I can always find people who fit the budget but have to be honest and say they won't fulfill the expectation - "you've asked me for a BMW but you can only afford a top of the range Ford" .... what do you want to do. The powers that be at BCFC are going through a similar process in their mind right now with Mark Ashton in my seat so to speak. If it is one of these 4 I will be underwhelmed: LOWE, WELLENS, ROBINS or FLYNN. Without doubt, in my mind, Hughton is the man for the job but to that credible contender shortlist you could add Jokanovic, Wagner & Karanka. I could make a case for Paul Cook and for McCarthy I would say he fits the BMW profile but not a sparkly brand new one!!! https://www.podbean.com/lsw/Forever%2BBristol%2BCity/s-7pLntL1Hyj With no disrespect to you personally, my professional experience of headhunters is that they’re no more effective in getting the right person for the job than random selection processes are! The first thing a headhunter has to do is to understand the context of the appointment, and if you can make a case for McCarthy then I’m not sure that you have quite got what the club will be looking for. That is unless you know something that we don’t and the club are proposing to change the CEO/Head Coach model, which I doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brent Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 So what you’re saying is, as a fan, you don’t particularly want any of the 4 names you’ve mentioned. I’m sure every fan has an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 I think appointing someone who has never previously managed above League Two level (such as Lowe or Flynn) is a massive gamble. They could be the next big thing but there are plenty of examples of managers who have failed badly as they moved up the leagues and the gap between League 2 and The Championship is enormous. If Hughton or Jokanović are out of our league in terms of the overall wage package they want I’d rather we went for someone like Adkins or even Clough than a totally unproven manager. McCarthy would be my first choice though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 My experience of headhunters is that they are in it for themselves and the money, nit often placing the best candidate in the most suitable role! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted July 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 5 minutes ago, David Brent said: So what you’re saying is, as a fan, you don’t particularly want any of the 4 names you’ve mentioned. I’m sure every fan has an opinion. In a word, Yes. Interesting that another poster has McCarthy as their No.1 and mentions Clough or Adkins as alternatives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibs Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 3 minutes ago, GrahamC said: I think appointing someone who has never previously managed above League Two level (such as Lowe or Flynn) is a massive gamble. They could be the next big thing but there are plenty of examples of managers who have failed badly as they moved up the leagues and the gap between League 2 and The Championship is enormous. If Hughton or Jokanović are out of our league in terms of the overall wage package they want I’d rather we went for someone like Adkins or even Clough than a totally unproven manager. McCarthy would be my first choice though. I agree Graham. I'd like to think none of them are out of our league at the moment. It wouldn't shock me if one of them was managing say Birmingham, so no reason why we shouldn't be targeting this calibre of manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted July 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 1 minute ago, frenchred said: My experience of headhunters is that they are in it for themselves and the money, nit often placing the best candidate in the most suitable role! Don't judge us all like this - I wouldn't have been successful in this business for 30 years if I was a wholly selfish *wat!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderMB Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 As a headhunter, I'm sure that you appreciate how important cultural fit is to some employers. Many of them value it over actual skills/experience. IMO, this is where Lansdown and Ashton sit, and ultimately losing LJ means very little, because they'll be looking for someone to sit the same pre-defined mould. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WECANDO Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 We've had enough of untried, inexperienced managers at our level. Time for Hughton or Jankovic. Two guys who know how to manage at our level and who have been successful. They may cost a more but I'm pretty sure the fans will flock back to AG to watch a more attractive style of play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretSam Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 No to Karanka, dreadful football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 12 minutes ago, GrahamC said: I think appointing someone who has never previously managed above League Two level (such as Lowe or Flynn) is a massive gamble. They could be the next big thing but there are plenty of examples of managers who have failed badly as they moved up the leagues and the gap between League 2 and The Championship is enormous. Sadly, we can supply many of the examples Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 1 minute ago, WECANDO said: We've had enough of untried, inexperienced managers at our level. Time for Hughton or Jankovic. Two guys who know how to manage at our level and who have been successful. They may cost a more but I'm pretty sure the fans will flock back to AG to watch a more attractive style of play. I keep saying it, but if we’re looking for a Head Coach rather than a Manager, then I doubt it will be either Hughton or Karanka. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted July 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 32 minutes ago, downendcity said: As a matter of interest. Who would you be whelmed by? Hughton or Jokanovic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 27 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said: With no disrespect to you personally, my professional experience of headhunters is that they’re no more effective in getting the right person for the job than random selection processes are! The first thing a headhunter has to do is to understand the context of the appointment, and if you can make a case for McCarthy then I’m not sure that you have quite got what the club will be looking for. That is unless you know something that we don’t and the club are proposing to change the CEO/Head Coach model, which I doubt. If we do really want the best we can get, then I think there has to be some budge on the club’s side too. Our model has to evolve too. Its quite possible the model is flexible based on who is in the head coach role. Successful organisations flex as required. As an example, if Hughton wants the Talent ID team to report into him, and he is the man you want, then you may agree to that. As long as both sides aren’t unreasonable in their demands....or else you have in effect appointed the wrong person. Perhaps Lee needed a Mark Ashton (yeah, yeah, I hear the sniggers!), Mick McCarthy might be happy with him, but no hand-holding. I do however agree the appointment will tell us a lot about the Board / and Owner. Will be interesting if we find any that were approached but turned it down...and why. I’m not talking about media rumours like Pulis for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grifty Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 2 hours ago, headhunter said: My actual job is in my name on here. I go and find [not pluck from a database] people to do a particular role. My client will have a salary budget in mind that they wish to pay. They will also have a list of objectives they want the new appointee to achieve. I must also ensure that those I present for consideration fit the culture [DNA] of the business. I can always find people who fit the budget but have to be honest and say they won't fulfill the expectation - "you've asked me for a BMW but you can only afford a top of the range Ford" .... what do you want to do. The powers that be at BCFC are going through a similar process in their mind right now with Mark Ashton in my seat so to speak. If it is one of these 4 I will be underwhelmed: LOWE, WELLENS, ROBINS or FLYNN. Without doubt, in my mind, Hughton is the man for the job but to that credible contender shortlist you could add Jokanovic, Wagner & Karanka. I could make a case for Paul Cook and for McCarthy I would say he fits the BMW profile but not a sparkly brand new one!!! https://www.podbean.com/lsw/Forever%2BBristol%2BCity/s-7pLntL1Hyj The top of the range Ford (Ford GT) retails at around $400,000 while BMW (BMW 760i)retails at $180,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted July 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 9 minutes ago, grifty said: The top of the range Ford (Ford GT) retails at around $400,000 while BMW (BMW 760i)retails at $180,000. Sorry, I'm not au fait with the list price of all cars!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 2 hours ago, WECANDO said: We've had enough of untried, inexperienced managers at our level. Time for Hughton or Jankovic. Two guys who know how to manage at our level and who have been successful. They may cost a more but I'm pretty sure the fans will flock back to AG to watch a more attractive style of play. Unsure the manager in bold necessarily fits the bolded bit! Mind you Hughton has a lot to recommend him in general, and on the bolded bit, maybe his style would be an improvement on what we've seen lately..it's quite a low bar right now after all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayOutWest Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Davefevs said: Our model has to evolve too. Its quite possible the model is flexible based on who is in the head coach role. Successful organisations flex as required. I agree Dave. I think the "inflexible model" was perhaps installed for LJ as he had little experience at this level. In fairness it actually worked for the most part. Identify hungry young players, develop them and sell them on for a profit. This is where Mark Ashton does a good job. Its also a safety blanket for SL, as by in large his investment is protected. Its a very simliar model to what happens in NHL hockey this side of the pond. You have a GM who wheels and deals and provides a team to a manager/coach they think should do well. A new man at the helm with a proven track record at this level, will require a different set of criteria. I hope we have the flexibility to be able to offer this. Someone else mentioned the training ground and what an asset that looks to be. I cant remember if manger/coach wages is part of FFP, but this is a chance to make a statement to the fans and the rest of the league, that we mean business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 90 Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 It will be interesting to listen to your guys podcast... Gregor is reporting it won't be a quick decision, what do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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