Jump to content
IGNORED

Women Coach


redpole

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, mozo said:

Completely get what you're saying, but some women can deal with that stuff. I mean imagine how much "banter" Met police commissioner Cressida Dick must have dealt with over the years.

I was thinking the same. They may try it, but come unstuck really quickly. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suppose that we sometimes forget: we all had mothers.

From a personal point of view, my mother was great, taught me what I needed to know and I wouldn't change her for the world.

Having said that, she'd probably be a shit football manager but that's not saying that someone else's mother/sister/aunt/etc. wouldn't be great at it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, mozo said:

Completely get what you're saying, but some women can deal with that stuff. I mean imagine how much "banter" Met police commissioner Cressida Dick must have dealt with over the years.

Good point, although in that field Cressida Dick has the chance to earn her stripes in the same field as the men. In football they can't in the same way.

19 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

No problem if it were the best person to apply, but would she command the respect of the players?

I dont think as a society we are there yet especially in football

Agreed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, The Bard said:

The way a woman will come to manage at a high level would be through an organisation like Chelsea. Probably coach under 21s etc and then moved into the head coach role thereafter.

Emma Hayes has done co-commentary on 5 live. She clearly has a razor sharp tactical mind.  We could do an awful lot worse. 

A bit more to managing or coaching a side with Premier League aspirations than being a good pundit surely.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suspect this is one of these things where, in a couple of decades time, people will find it remarkable that there was ever a feeling there could not be female coaches and managers in the men's game. 

However I also suspect the way it first happens will either be:

a) a non-league or lower league clubs that first appoints an experienced manager in the women's game

or

b ) Exactly as @The Bard says, a female coach getting a role on the coaching staff of a massive club and climbing through the ranks to be a respected coach, much in the way that, say, Mourinho did before he got his first chance of a manager.

I'd be surprised if a Championship club appointed a female coach who wasn't already at the club and/or making an impression at a club at a higher level in the men's game. 

So I think this is very unlikely to be a debate we come back to when the new manager is appointed. Personally, I'll back whoever gets the job but I'd be surprised if it was a female coach at this point. I think progress will be made on this soon though. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I hope this doesn't read badly, but purely from a human nature point of view, I think a female coach would generally suffer more unrest from players when the chips are down.

This can happen to a male manager too of course, but I can imagine a team with senior pros (especially if you have a couple of troublesome characters like Tomlin) really taking the piss and playing up badly. 

I can see a day when there are female coaches and managers, but I don't think it's the right time for us at the moment.

 

I think a huge part of the problem for the first female manager/head coach to come through will be that whatever she does will be a marker for how female coaches are seen. 

The second she lost a couple of games, there'd be fans on messageboards like these saying "see, told you women can't manage". And, even if the club were doing well, I suspect the knives would come out after every defeat.

I actually don't think the issue in the long-term is so much going to be an absence of talented female coaches who have the psychological resistance and fortitude to withstand that. A lot of women put up with a lot of needless sexist crap in a huge number of jobs and get through it and get on with it so football would be no different. The issue to my in my mind is that most owners and CEOs in football are men and I don't know how many would be prepared to back a female manager and stick to their guns if the going got tough. There are a few in the game I could see doing it - it wouldn't shock me if Dale Vince appointed a female manager at Forest Green for example, if he thought there was an excellent candidate- but I think most owners would decide they could do without the negative reaction and refuse to take the gamble. 

18 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

A bit more to managing or coaching a side with Premier League aspirations than being a good pundit surely.

That hasn't stopped various male pundits getting jobs they subsequently turned out to be very ill-suited to...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, mozo said:

"I'm very proud, if you like, to be the first female head coach, if you like, of Bristol City."

But the players must be ready, tactically, physically and mentally, if you like. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So depending on what you read/want to believe, the current squad stopped playing for Lee because they didn't respect him towards the end. This was possibly "due to his lack of winning anything of any merit as a player".

The women's game is not paid as well as the mens, and although the consensus is changing, it still isn't seen as entertaining or serious enough compared to the mens game.

Should we employ a female coach? Said "potential" coach would not have earned as much as the men she would be "managing", and would possibly not have won anything of any merit either (if you make a like for like comparison between them and Lee Johnson for example).

So, to answer the original question, I will ask 2 more:

1. Would a female coach/manager be able to command the respect of a squad of men, who will more than likely be on more per week than she was when she was playing, and have a (by and large) over inflated opinion of themselves?

2. Would Lee Tomlin have had more respect for a womens world cup winner, than he did for Lee Johnson?

I'm pretty sure that the answer to both of those questions would be no. Therefore at this moment in time, I don't see a female coach/manager in the mens game, at a professional level anytime soon. 

Maybe in time that will change, but I think that before that happens, any female that wants to get into the mens game, would not only have to work bloody hard to get noticed and command respect, but they would also have to make the climb through the ranks at a club - youth team coach, reserve team, assistant etc. They would probably also be starting out a lower level in the football pyramid.

It would take a brave board to appoint a female at this moment in time. For a club with aspirations of getting into the Premiership soon, that's not going to happen yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Taz said:

So depending on what you read/want to believe, the current squad stopped playing for Lee because they didn't respect him towards the end. This was possibly "due to his lack of winning anything of any merit as a player".

The women's game is not paid as well as the mens, and although the consensus is changing, it still isn't seen as entertaining or serious enough compared to the mens game.

Should we employ a female coach? Said "potential" coach would not have earned as much as the men she would be "managing", and would possibly not have won anything of any merit either.

So, to answer the original question, I will ask 2 more:

1. Would a female coach/manager be able to command the respect of a squad of men, who will more than likely be on more per week than she was when she was playing, and have a (by and large) over inflated opinion of themselves?

2. Would Lee Tomlin have had more respect for a womens world cup winner, than he did for Lee Johnson?

I'm pretty sure that the answer to both of those questions would be no. Therefore at this moment in time, I don't see a female coach/manager in the mens game, at a professional level anytime soon. 

Maybe in time that will change, but I think that before that happens, any female that wants to get into the mens game, would not only have to work bloody hard to get noticed and command respect, but they would also have to make the climb through the ranks at a club - youth team coach, reserve team, assistant etc. They would probably also be starting out a lower level in the football pyramid.

It would take a brave board to appoint a female at this moment in time. For a club with aspirations of getting into the Premiership soon, that's not going to happen yet.

I don't think that's true. Probably more likely (if they had in fact lost respect for him) to do with tactics, man-management, team selection, etc if anything…

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I think a huge part of the problem for the first female manager/head coach to come through will be that whatever she does will be a marker for how female coaches are seen. 

The second she lost a couple of games, there'd be fans on messageboards like these saying "see, told you women can't manage". And, even if the club were doing well, I suspect the knives would come out after every defeat.

I actually don't think the issue in the long-term is so much going to be an absence of talented female coaches who have the psychological resistance and fortitude to withstand that. A lot of women put up with a lot of needless sexist crap in a huge number of jobs and get through it and get on with it so football would be no different. The issue to my in my mind is that most owners and CEOs in football are men and I don't know how many would be prepared to back a female manager and stick to their guns if the going got tough. There are a few in the game I could see doing it - it wouldn't shock me if Dale Vince appointed a female manager at Forest Green for example, if he thought there was an excellent candidate- but I think most owners would decide they could do without the negative reaction and refuse to take the gamble. 

That hasn't stopped various male pundits getting jobs they subsequently turned out to be very ill-suited to...

Very good post. Agree with that.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Admin
2 hours ago, redpole said:

With Emma Hayes coming into the list of potential next manager with odds of 33/1. What are people’s thoughts on a women coach?? 

Do you work for the Bristol Post?

Talk about click bait . . . .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Taz said:

So depending on what you read/want to believe, the current squad stopped playing for Lee because they didn't respect him towards the end. This was possibly "due to his lack of winning anything of any merit as a player".

The women's game is not paid as well as the mens, and although the consensus is changing, it still isn't seen as entertaining or serious enough compared to the mens game.

Should we employ a female coach? Said "potential" coach would not have earned as much as the men she would be "managing", and would possibly not have won anything of any merit either (if you make a like for like comparison between them and Lee Johnson for example).

So, to answer the original question, I will ask 2 more:

1. Would a female coach/manager be able to command the respect of a squad of men, who will more than likely be on more per week than she was when she was playing, and have a (by and large) over inflated opinion of themselves?

2. Would Lee Tomlin have had more respect for a womens world cup winner, than he did for Lee Johnson?

I'm pretty sure that the answer to both of those questions would be no. Therefore at this moment in time, I don't see a female coach/manager in the mens game, at a professional level anytime soon. 

Maybe in time that will change, but I think that before that happens, any female that wants to get into the mens game, would not only have to work bloody hard to get noticed and command respect, but they would also have to make the climb through the ranks at a club - youth team coach, reserve team, assistant etc. They would probably also be starting out a lower level in the football pyramid.

It would take a brave board to appoint a female at this moment in time. For a club with aspirations of getting into the Premiership soon, that's not going to happen yet.

You should probably take this bit out

What did Mourinho do as a player?

Jurgen Klopp?

Arsene Wenger?

And many more...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Riaz said:

You should probably take this bit out

What did Mourinho do as a player?

Jurgen Klopp?

Arsene Wenger?

And many more...

That is true of course, but especially in the examples of Klopp and Mourinho they'd made up for it by winning big honours as a manager before joining the PL clubs.

Even Wenger, which was a long time ago, had won things before coming to Arsenal.

The other thing is that LJ is from a closer generation of players to the players he's managed (ie Wilbraham, Gary O'Neil) so that also changes the dynamic somewhat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

That is true of course, but especially in the examples of Klopp and Mourinho they'd made up for it by winning big honours as a manager before joining the PL clubs.

Even Wenger, which was a long time ago, had won things before coming to Arsenal.

The other thing is that LJ is from a closer generation of players to the players he's managed (ie Wilbraham, Gary O'Neil) so that also changes the dynamic somewhat.

Did Wenger win anything as a player?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

No, the difference in the police analogy is that it's mixed gender teams of officers working together. In football there's an obvious gender divide. The comparison would work if teams were mixed gender.

Does she not work with men on the management side?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

As above, the point is that by the time they came to the UK they'd won honours as managers. That's the difference when comparing to someone like LJ who had won nothing as a manager when he came here.

My point was about what managers have done as players - i think its totally irrelevant, when it comes to management

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's funny that one of the arguments for skepticism of female managers is 'but would Lee Tomlin respect them'!

Who gives a **** about Lee Tomlin or any other childish arseholes for that matter. We certainly won't let people like him stymie the progress of our club.

I'd imagine the CV of the first EFL head coach will be as follows:

WSL player > WSL coach > WSL manager > EFL coach > EFL assistant > EFL manager

By the time they'd come through that, and if they'd proven they had the skillset, they'd be equipped to the job.

As I said, they've has female coaches in men's NBA. It's the direction of travel and there's no rational reason to oppose it.

Having said that, I'm not seeing beyond Hughton for the City job.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Does she not work with men on the management side?

With respect I think you've misunderstood what I'm saying.

You mentioned Cressida Dick's position in the Met police as a comparison to Emma Hayes in terms of commanding respect from teams of men.

I'm pointing out that Cressida Dick's work in the Met police is managing mixed teams of men and women. Emma Hayes being a manager of a woman's football team has managed teams of women.

Because of that, I don't think it's a valid comparison.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Riaz said:

My point was about what managers have done as players - i think its totally irrelevant, when it comes to management

I think it's definitely a factor. One of many many things that come into the science of management. Using Steven Gerrard as an example, I think his playing career would command more respect in the players and also help bring bigger name players to the club.

I'm pointing out that the 3 managers you'd mentioned had already had managerial success when taking over as managers which goes some way to mitigating the lack of playing career success. LJ hadn't so I don't think it's a great comparison.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...