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Women Coach


redpole

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1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

With respect I think you've misunderstood what I'm saying.

You mentioned Cressida Dick's position in the Met police as a comparison to Emma Hayes in terms of commanding respect from teams of men.

I'm pointing out that Cressida Dick's work in the Met police is managing mixed teams of men and women. Emma Hayes being a manager of a woman's football team has managed teams of women.

Because of that, I don't think it's a valid comparison.

Nope, that was me mentioning the met commissioner. I agree that in the current climate you'd want a female candidate to have coached in the men's game to be qualified for the City men's job. It'll happen one day.

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2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

With respect I think you've misunderstood what I'm saying.

You mentioned Cressida Dick's position in the Met police as a comparison to Emma Hayes in terms of commanding respect from teams of men.

I'm pointing out that Cressida Dick's work in the Met police is managing mixed teams of men and women. Emma Hayes being a manager of a woman's football team has managed teams of women.

Because of that, I don't think it's a valid comparison.

oh. 

Someone mentioned Cressida Dick in regards to dealing with banter etc., I don't see how that can't be a comparison. 

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3 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

With respect I think you've misunderstood what I'm saying.

You mentioned Cressida Dick's position in the Met police as a comparison to Emma Hayes in terms of commanding respect from teams of men.

I'm pointing out that Cressida Dick's work in the Met police is managing mixed teams of men and women. Emma Hayes being a manager of a woman's football team has managed teams of women.

Because of that, I don't think it's a valid comparison.

By the way, you missed the point of the Cressida Dick memtion.

I was referring directly to the 'how would they cope with the banter' element.

Dick, being female and with a name like that, would have undoubtedly been subjected to a lifetime of giggling and teasing and evidently was tough enough to climb the ranks.

Women can be tough too. Tough enough to be prime minister, tough enough to be head of police and certainly tough enough to deal with the Lee Tomlins of this world. 

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4 minutes ago, mozo said:

Nope, that was me mentioning the met commissioner. I agree that in the current climate you'd want a female candidate to have coached in the men's game to be qualified for the City men's job. It'll happen one day.

 

3 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

oh. 

Someone mentioned Cressida Dick in regards to dealing with banter etc., I don't see how that can't be a comparison. 

Sorry got my wires crossed here then! You must've wondered why I was suddenly talking about Cressida Dick :doh:

Just now, mozo said:

By the way, you missed the point of the Cressida Dick memtion.

I was referring directly to the 'how would they cope with the banter' element.

Dick, being female and with a name like that, would have undoubtedly been subjected to a lifetime of giggling and teasing and evidently was tough enough to climb the ranks.

Women can be tough too. Tough enough to be prime minister, tough enough to be head of police and certainly tough enough to deal with the Lee Tomlins of this world. 

Absolutely, agree you on that.

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52 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I don't think that's true. Probably more likely (if they had in fact lost respect for him) to do with tactics, man-management, team selection, etc if anything…

I agree, although depending on what you read/believe on here, that could have been one (maybe of many) reasons.

37 minutes ago, Riaz said:

You should probably take this bit out

What did Mourinho do as a player?

Jurgen Klopp?

Arsene Wenger?

And many more...

The argument is more to do with the fact that Johnson had won nothing as a player or manager/coach before coming here - as @Phileas Foggpoints out below:

33 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

That is true of course, but especially in the examples of Klopp and Mourinho they'd made up for it by winning big honours as a manager before joining the PL clubs.

Even Wenger, which was a long time ago, had won things before coming to Arsenal.

The other thing is that LJ is from a closer generation of players to the players he's managed (ie Wilbraham, Gary O'Neil) so that also changes the dynamic somewhat.

 

26 minutes ago, Riaz said:

My point was about what managers have done as players - i think its totally irrelevant, when it comes to management

Correct to an extent - they have their badges, awards and manager of month accolades, but after a while if you're being coached(maybe overcoached) by someone who despite all of their badges has done very little as a player (see LJ), then you're possibly going to lose a bit of respect for them. Especially if everything they do seem to do has very little effect on the results of games. 

LJ won a lot of respect for what he did during the cup run (and around that time), so the lack of accomplishments at the time were irrelevant. If however you get to the point where you try to reinvent the wheel and fail, and then also fail to acknowledge your own mistakes, then you're going to lose all respect you've earned.

25 minutes ago, mozo said:

It's funny that one of the arguments for skepticism of female managers is 'but would Lee Tomlin respect them'!

Who gives a **** about Lee Tomlin or any other childish arseholes for that matter. We certainly won't let people like him stymie the progress of our club.

I'd imagine the CV of the first EFL head coach will be as follows:

WSL player > WSL coach > WSL manager > EFL coach > EFL assistant > EFL manager

By the time they'd come through that, and if they'd proven they had the skillset, they'd be equipped to the job.

As I said, they've has female coaches in men's NBA. It's the direction of travel and there's no rational reason to oppose it.

Having said that, I'm not seeing beyond Hughton for the City job.

Tomlin was just an example. He's the last "ego" that we have had at the club, and LJ certainly couldn't get him to comply (which to be fair to LJ many others have also failed to do). The main point I was trying to make was that an ego like that takes a very specific type of coach to get them to work. He thinks he's much better than he is, so chances are a female coach would have no chance of controlling that type of ego.

Agree about Hughton, everything points towards him. Just hope that the club are on the same wavelength and don't go for the cheap option.

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2 hours ago, Natchfever said:

A bit more to managing or coaching a side with Premier League aspirations than being a good pundit surely.

The point is she's a successful manager. The punditry illustrates she has a clear understanding and ability to analyse the game.  

If you gave me a  choice between her and Micky Flynn I know who I'd choose.

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8 minutes ago, Taz said:

Tomlin was just an example. He's the last "ego" that we have had at the club, and LJ certainly couldn't get him to comply (which to be fair to LJ many others have also failed to do). The main point I was trying to make was that an ego like that takes a very specific type of coach to get them to work. He thinks he's much better than he is, so chances are a female coach would have no chance of controlling that type of ego.

Agree about Hughton, everything points towards him. Just hope that the club are on the same wavelength and don't go for the cheap option.

Yeah regards ego players, I guess I'm saying that the problem with Tomlin is not the size of his ego but his toxic personality. I'd stick my neck out and claim that Beckham, Ibrahimovic and Ronaldo would have no problem being coached by a female if she was qualified. They've got huge egos, but they have positive attitudes.

A female manager would probably bin off the players with bad attitudes.

When Bradley Orr spoke on OSIB about Warnock turning a blind eye to Adel Taraabt spitting at a member of staff, I though sod that. Reprimand and get rid and get promoted without him.

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Lots of people saying that certain players wouldn't respect a manager if they were female:

1) that's quite an assumption to make about people you don't know personally

2) If any of our players truly had that attitude then I would be perfectly happy for the to leave my club, whoever they were.

Also to people saying that the first female manager should go WSL > X > Y > Z > assistant > manager, this is nothing more than setting barriers in someones way. The first female manager will come about as soon as a chairman has the guts to appoint one that they think is good enough. Plenty of blokes get managerial jobs based on next-to-no genuine credentials because they are the "right candidate", and it should be no different for women. 

I agree with whoever said Dale Vince is a possible for being the first chairmen to do so.

For the record I think the first female manager will actually do very well and surprise a lot of people, the mental fortitude to get to that position as a female would already show she had more about her than a great number of blokes in football.

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17 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

Mind you don't baffle me with your analytical riposte.

League 2 to prem with pace and power is a lot closer than to Women’s football which is of poor quality in comparison. Only few years ago Australia women’s national team lost 7-0 to a boys U15 side. It’s so different it’s ridiculous.

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Not withstanding reaching a ‘technical’ bar for appointment, having a woman coach In the team would, IMO, bring something really different. 

When I’ve coached juniors, having a female presence has helped widen the approach and understanding of both players and coaches.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, tezOfCity said:

Also to people saying that the first female manager should go WSL > X > Y > Z > assistant > manager, this is nothing more than setting barriers in someones way. 

Hi Tez, you might mean me but if so I think you mis-read my post. I didn't say they should go down that route, I said "I imagine" that's the route the first one will take.

So, not condoning, just predicting. 

If you didn't mean me, I'll shut up...

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3 hours ago, Monkeh said:

No problem if it were the best person to apply, but would she command the respect of the players?

I dont think as a society we are there yet especially in football

Doesn't matter, society will never get there if nobody bucks the trend and challenges its current structures.

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2 minutes ago, mozo said:

Hi Tez, you might mean me but if so I think you mis-read my post. I didn't say they should go down that route, I said "I imagine" that's the route the first one will take.

So, not condoning, just predicting. 

If you didn't mean me, I'll shut up...

No you're right I think I did mean you.

My bad, guilty of skim reading, sorry :). 

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6 minutes ago, tezOfCity said:

Lots of people saying that certain players wouldn't respect a manager if they were female:

1) that's quite an assumption to make about people you don't know personally

2) If any of our players truly had that attitude then I would be perfectly happy for the to leave my club, whoever they were.

Also to people saying that the first female manager should go WSL > X > Y > Z > assistant > manager, this is nothing more than setting barriers in someones way. The first female manager will come about as soon as a chairman has the guts to appoint one that they think is good enough. Plenty of blokes get managerial jobs based on next-to-no genuine credentials because they are the "right candidate", and it should be no different for women. 

I agree with whoever said Dale Vince is a possible for being the first chairmen to do so.

For the record I think the first female manager will actually do very well and surprise a lot of people, the mental fortitude to get to that position as a female would already show she had more about her than a great number of blokes in football.

Yep quite right.

If some players (who lets not forget are at work by the way, not on a piss up with their mates!) couldn't handle having a female coach or manager that's their issue, and shouldn't be seen as a reason not to appoint one. Why should a football player be expected or allowed to react any differently to having a female boss to anyone else? Why would they even want to?

As someone above said, they would no doubt get a lot of jokes made at their expense the first time they lost a few games or gave a snappy post match interview (as all managers do sometimes) - but with time that'll fade and it'll be considered the norm, just as it is to have women leading in business/politics/whatever now.

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8 minutes ago, RUSSEL85 said:

League 2 to prem with pace and power is a lot closer than to Women’s football which is of poor quality in comparison. Only few years ago Australia women’s national team lost 7-0 to a boys U15 side. It’s so different it’s ridiculous.

Do you think a female manager would instruct her players to tone down their pace and power on her arrival? 

It's all relative so I'm not sure what difference you think it will make. Players are responsible for their conditioning, the manager is responsible for tactics.

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1 minute ago, RUSSEL85 said:

Don’t get me wrong I hope it does happen at some point, I think a league 2 club will in the next couple of years. 
 

My point is they are so vastly different. I hope it gets the right reception from fans, I still hear a lot of misogyny. 

I think it’s about management and coaching not ability as a player. The men’s games is littered with great players who failed as coaches and great coaches you never played to any great level.

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14 minutes ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

Could be an alien for all I care as long as they are competent and do what is required. 

Are we talking an alien like ALF, or are you thinking the creatures in the Alien movie franchise (the face grabbers would make Fergie's hairdryer look like a peck on the cheek...)

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2 hours ago, RUSSEL85 said:

League 2 to prem with pace and power is a lot closer than to Women’s football which is of poor quality in comparison. Only few years ago Australia women’s national team lost 7-0 to a boys U15 side. It’s so different it’s ridiculous.

When I was a kid, England used to put 8 past Turkey, home and away. Doesn't happen now. A lot can happen in a few years.

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5 hours ago, Shaun Taylor said:

I think most players would be ready physically!

?

Sorry mate, it’s just a gag that Lee Johnson used to say during every single press conference...

Glad I don’t have to hear it again.

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