Jamie p

[Steve Watts]

13 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

The trouble is and this goes for most for our players, that was the 1 in 5 good performance from him last night. 
 

Need that on a consistent basis. Just haven’t seen it enough, sadly.

Yep....And that's even more frustrating in that we can see that they can do it....so why don't they do it more often.  Our league cup run season he was unplayable until he got ill.  Then went back to 1 in 5 (if we're generous) after that.  

[Super]

31 minutes ago, Fuber said:

One performance does not maketh a player.

Issue with Pato he has games like yesterday and Forest '17 in his locker.

Between points in time, the locker is a janitors closet.

Very, very, inconsistent.

Many at this level are though which is why they aren't playing in the Prem etc. I would keep him you need a good squad.

[Middlesbrough Robin]

Excellent player on his day, who I can see flourishing with the right manager, formation and players around him. Its that bit of skill once or twice a match which is the difference between a drab 0-0 and a glorious victory. Paterson, Palmer, Szmodics, Eliasson all need a midfield that can put them into an attacking position and a forward line that makes clever runs and can receive the ball in tight spaces. Something we have struggled with this season for one reason or another.

I would keep.

[Harry]

I absolutely loved Paterson’s first half performance last night. 
When I saw the team, 5-3-2 with Smith as the only recognised CM, I was very worried. 

The shape was mainly KS & JP as the 2 CM’s with AW higher up behind the ST’s. 

We saw Pato get a lot of the ball in deep midfield, often in the DM position, but he had free reign to go forward too. 
His central midfield performance in that first 45 minutes was actually as good as I’ve seen any of our CM’s play this season. 
 

He took the ball from the CB’s and Wing backs with confidence. He held his position well defensively. He didn’t dwell on the ball in the DM position and quickly shifted it forward or wide, keeping play ticking over at a good tempo. He wasn’t afraid to try incisive forward passes, he wasn’t afraid to receive the ball in midfield under pressure, he wasn’t afraid to beat his man with a shimmy or a turn to create space. 
Capped off of course with that absolutely delicious assist. 
It truly was the best all round CM performance from anyone this season. 
 

He then disappeared for much of the 2nd half, but my word, that first half was superb. I thought we’d cured our midfield problem. 
Of course, he’s certainly not a long term answer in CM, but after last night, I’d happily see him start in there, in that formation, for the rest of the season. 
 

It was a stark contrast when Nagy came on and moved into the position Pato had been playing. Nagy’s contribution was to Head one ball directly up in the air, make a pass out wide to JD which he should’ve put 10 yards in front for him to run into it in acres but instead he put it 5 yards behind him to make him stop his forward run, and then he went chasing a high ball which Benkovic had perfectly covered and ended up getting himself hurt. Stark stark contrast. Keep Pato in there. 

[RedM]

Got to look at his age too, 28 ( 29 at the end of the year). He should be at his peak, but sadly probably falls short of what we should be aiming for. 

He will probably be looking at one of the last times he can get a three or four year deal. If someone can offer him that I’m sure we would wish him well and think it was best for all.

[Red-Robbo]

TBH I'd rather see a player who can occasionally have an absolute blinder at the club, than players who have NEVER been more than average. We have a stock of those.

Regarding Patto's consistency, I'd say about him what I'll say about a number of our players: we're judging him through the prism of Lee Johnson's uninspiring coaching technique.  

Who knows what some of these guys are capable of under a genuinely exciting manager? 

At least with Patto we know he CAN do it. The natural flair is there. 

 

[swanker]

2 hours ago, dave36 said:

Now you see him now you don’t, 2 moments of brilliance we are 2 up!

how many Poor passes? Consistency would be a bonus

How many poor passes? Loads, the bloke does my head in at times. Very inconsistent player if you ask me and when he’s bad he’s awful.

[RedM]

55 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

The trouble is and this goes for most for our players, that was the 1 in 5 good performance from him last night. 
 

Need that on a consistent basis. Just haven’t seen it enough, sadly.

I agree, we seem to have a lot of players who are only good one game in six, abysmal one game in six too and average for the rest. It’s great when several have their good game in the same match, but on the flip side disastrous when everyone has their bad game together. 

I think it’s been scientifically proven that a group of females who work closely together settle to a similar hormonal pattern ( seriously), perhaps males have a similar thing! 

[Davefevs]

4 hours ago, SuperRed said:

He is not good / consistent enough to be a regular if we are aiming for promotion. He wasn’t good enough for Forest at this level, he wasn’t good enough for us as we loaned him out, and then he wasn’t good enough for Derby to want to keep him for the season. 

In many respects he is your typical attacking midfielder / number 10 / wideman....very few are consistent.  But Paterson, for the level we are at is blessed with v.good technical ability, and two feet (no joke).  Those two feet give him extra options with the ball at his feet and he is very good at creating hakf a yard for himself off of either foot, which gives him a big advantage in the final third.

4 hours ago, Super said:

I think he is worth keeping rather see COD and Weimann go.

Direct choice, pick one out of the three.  Pato....no-brainer for me.  

3 hours ago, GrahamC said:

For all the Kasey Palmer love in on here for me he is still the best number 10 we have.

Only non striker who is likely to score now Brownhill has left us & as much a source of assists as anyone else we have.

Bit lightweight, tends to be inconsistent but he would always be in my match day squad.

Now need to make a decision on who out of Palmer & Szmodics stays as well, though that will probably depend on who we can move on rather than which one we would prefer to keep.

Had a feeling you might chirp in on this....and a bit surprised you’ve not quoted any stats.

So here you go.

98 starts

32 subbed on

8457 minutes (94 x 90mins)

21 goals, 19 assists

So a goal and assist every 5 games.

For a player who offers versatility that’s pretty good.  For all my liking of Palmer, if we never see him get a run, Pato is the go-to man.

55 minutes ago, Harry said:

I absolutely loved Paterson’s first half performance last night. 
When I saw the team, 5-3-2 with Smith as the only recognised CM, I was very worried. 

The shape was mainly KS & JP as the 2 CM’s with AW higher up behind the ST’s. 

We saw Pato get a lot of the ball in deep midfield, often in the DM position, but he had free reign to go forward too. 
His central midfield performance in that first 45 minutes was actually as good as I’ve seen any of our CM’s play this season. 
 

He took the ball from the CB’s and Wing backs with confidence. He held his position well defensively. He didn’t dwell on the ball in the DM position and quickly shifted it forward or wide, keeping play ticking over at a good tempo. He wasn’t afraid to try incisive forward passes, he wasn’t afraid to receive the ball in midfield under pressure, he wasn’t afraid to beat his man with a shimmy or a turn to create space. 
Capped off of course with that absolutely delicious assist. 
It truly was the best all round CM performance from anyone this season. 
 

He then disappeared for much of the 2nd half, but my word, that first half was superb. I thought we’d cured our midfield problem. 
Of course, he’s certainly not a long term answer in CM, but after last night, I’d happily see him start in there, in that formation, for the rest of the season. 
 

It was a stark contrast when Nagy came on and moved into the position Pato had been playing. Nagy’s contribution was to Head one ball directly up in the air, make a pass out wide to JD which he should’ve put 10 yards in front for him to run into it in acres but instead he put it 5 yards behind him to make him stop his forward run, and then he went chasing a high ball which Benkovic had perfectly covered and ended up getting himself hurt. Stark stark contrast. Keep Pato in there. 

I saw set-up slightly different Harry, but starting positions within the fluidity of a game are very debatable.  If I lined them up on the pitch I probably had Weimann (narrow RAM), Pato (narrow LAM), with Smith anchored.  I saw it as a 5122, but I’m not gonna lose any sleep over it.  The key was Pato’s fluidity, popping up all over the midfield.

i want to break last night into 3 areas.  As you say he was fluid.  Look at the various positions he received the ball....and who he got passes from

That is exactly what we want from him.

Secondly I wanted to break it down to the first 55 minutes (just after he scored), when we were more condensed as a team.

Good contributions all over the pitch.

Thirdly, final 35 mins, a combination of Hull bypassing the midfield, City going too deep, leaving bigger spaces and Pato tiring from an all action game.

Giving the ball away, sometimes sloppily.

But in summary he is a very capable player at this level.  Holden gave him a position and game plan to maximise his output.  He delivered.  I liked it.

 

[Harry]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I saw set-up slightly different Harry, but starting positions within the fluidity of a game are very debatable.  If I lined them up on the pitch I probably had Weimann (narrow RAM), Pato (narrow LAM), with Smith anchored.  I saw it as a 5122, but I’m not gonna lose any sleep over it.  The key was Pato’s fluidity, popping up all over the midfield.

i want to break last night into 3 areas.  As you say he was fluid.  Look at the various positions he received the ball....and who he got passes from

That is exactly what we want from him.

Secondly I wanted to break it down to the first 55 minutes (just after he scored), when we were more condensed as a team.

Good contributions all over the pitch.

Thirdly, final 35 mins, a combination of Hull bypassing the midfield, City going too deep, leaving bigger spaces and Pato tiring from an all action game.

Giving the ball away, sometimes sloppily.

But in summary he is a very capable player at this level.  Holden gave him a position and game plan to maximise his output.  He delivered.  I liked it.

 

Yep. That ‘Player Pass Combo’ certainly backs up what I thought about him receiving passes off the CB’s & Wing backs. 
 

I also don’t think it was 5-1-2-2. More like 5-2-1-2. 
I think the midfield 3 were KS & JP as a base with AW advanced. Like a triangle. 
But KS had the ‘sit in’ role whereas JP had the ‘join in’ role. 
 

I thought I’d have a quick look at the heat maps. Certainly KS predominantly centrally in own half, JP predominantly centrally, pretty evenly split both sides of halfway, AW predominantly centrally in oppo half, so JP central with licence to go forward. 
 

Difficult to judge against what I thought was actually a poor quality Hull midfield, but that shape certainly looked decent and Pato was the main ball-player centrally. 
 

Heat maps in order : Pato, Weimann, Smith. 

[Davefevs]

@Harry cool
 

There was a game pre-Covid, wracking my brains to remember which one, where Massengo and Pato played....where Pato made himself available every time Massengo got, we looked fluid in that game too.

[Harry]

16 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@Harry cool
 

There was a game pre-Covid, wracking my brains to remember which one, where Massengo and Pato played....where Pato made himself available every time Massengo got, we looked fluid in that game too.

Seeing Pato in the ‘predominant possession’ CM role was certainly an unexpected move from Holden but I thought it was the best 45 mins of any of our CM’s this season. 
By ‘predominant possession’ I mean the CM who is expected to see most of the ball and keep the possession ticking over. 
Post-Pack, none of our CM’s have taken on that role, and it’s been my biggest criticism of this year. 
As said, I’m sure it’s not a long term option (I’d hope Walsh fills this role next year), but for the remaining 4 games this year, I’ll happily see Pato in that role and dictating the play, based on last nights showing. 

[Davefevs]

20 minutes ago, Harry said:

Seeing Pato in the ‘predominant possession’ CM role was certainly an unexpected move from Holden but I thought it was the best 45 mins of any of our CM’s this season. 
By ‘predominant possession’ I mean the CM who is expected to see most of the ball and keep the possession ticking over. 
Post-Pack, none of our CM’s have taken on that role, and it’s been my biggest criticism of this year. 
As said, I’m sure it’s not a long term option (I’d hope Walsh fills this role next year), but for the remaining 4 games this year, I’ll happily see Pato in that role and dictating the play, based on last nights showing. 

Agreed!!!

[Mr Popodopolous]

Is best at '10' overall but showed some good signs in CM. Maybe he could be that third man, drifting between there and '10'...think he's worth keeping however.

[Wrongagain]

2 hours ago, swanker said:

How many poor passes? Loads, the bloke does my head in at times. Very inconsistent player if you ask me and when he’s bad he’s awful.

Totally agree, but I got totally roasted prior to his Derby holiday when I suggested he was only in the team due to a love in with LJ - hence “inconsistent” rather than §~~~~~~§ rubbish

[sgraham]

Whilst I agree Pato has always been pretty inconsistent, some have alluded to it on here, that maybe it could have been a Lee Johnson coaching problem rather than a Pato problem and I believe this may be the case - Not only in general coaching, but in a positional sense, you have to remember LJ played Pato out wide for large parts of previous campaigns. He had a stint playing as almost a shadow striker a couple of seasons ago and correct me if I am wrong, but he bagged a fair few goals? I think he got injured then lost his place. 

I've always been a fan of Pato but I do think he is best playing in a central position, whether that is shadow striker/no.10 or now potentially midfield.. Who knows, but maybe with a more consistent central position comes a more consistent player? 

Dont think there's any denying he's one of few players in our current squad that actually looks like he might make something happen! I think worth keeping for sure. Seems to love it here too. 

[Kibs]

Wasn't it refreshing to see what happens when you pick a player in the centre of the pitch that can actually handle the ball properly, even under pressure, and has the bottle to play it forward.....and the touch for the assist, absolutely out of this world! And I am by no means a big Jamie Paterson fan!!

People worry too much about picking attack minded players in the centre of midfield IMO but if all you have is players looking to play it simple/sideways/backwards, and not willing to break the lines, then eventually it just gets hit long and you are probably going to be back under pressure having gotten nowhere.

[old_eastender]

11 hours ago, Super said:

I think he is worth keeping rather see COD and Weimann go.

This exactly. 

Pato is poor when asked to play left flank (which he was repeatedly under LJ), but as a no.10 or ACM he has talent he would, for me, be at least a useful squad member.

COD's only useful position is left flank, but I'd get rid and Wiemann needs to be moved on too.

[eardun]

5 hours ago, Harry said:

Seeing Pato in the ‘predominant possession’ CM role was certainly an unexpected move from Holden but I thought it was the best 45 mins of any of our CM’s this season. 
By ‘predominant possession’ I mean the CM who is expected to see most of the ball and keep the possession ticking over. 
Post-Pack, none of our CM’s have taken on that role, and it’s been my biggest criticism of this year. 
As said, I’m sure it’s not a long term option (I’d hope Walsh fills this role next year), but for the remaining 4 games this year, I’ll happily see Pato in that role and dictating the play, based on last nights showing. 

Agree with this. Pato was great especially first half on Weds. I know there are lots of complaints about his consistency, but perhaps he’d be more consistent if he was played centrally consistently with licence to roam. He also played well centrally behind Bobby Reid in 2017. He shouldn’t play on the wing in my view.