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Fam is fantastic at some things but I would sell for a decent price.

What we will miss most is his presence in defending corners.

We desperately need to bring in 2 or 3 bigger players into our squad. But I am not sure I would bring in any big target men strikers.

Wells for me has to be our main striker up top on his own. That's his best position.

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12 minutes ago, CliftonCliff said:

Thanks for posting this. Makes interesting reading. It’s the ones that score at, or close to, a rate of a goal ever other game that really stand out, and history shows they are few and far between. Atyeo, Galley, Thorpe and Taylor. Terrific finishers, all of them. And Goater’s scoring rate, as you say, was also very impressive. Impossible to imagine anyone ever again getting anywhere near Big John’s phenomenal record.

Yeh, I'll defend Famara to the hilt as a 1 in 3 striker, but you're quite right it's the guys who hit 1 in 2 that are really fantastic. If Fam stays though he should get to 50 in around 150 appearances, that would put him in roughly the same bracket as guys like Allison, Peacock, Sharpe, Walsh and even Murray. Pretty good company tbh.

To get 352 and overtake Atyeo the player would need to probably average 30ish goals for 12 seasons. So that is 30 goals a year from the age of 19 to 31, and without some other club buying him in the meantime. The only way we'll ever get anyone hitting 300+ for this club is if we a) get into the Prem, b) sign a young player or have an exceptional academy striker, c) he manages to score well...but not so well that he gets transferred, and d) he has a sense of loyalty that trumps money. As you say, very unlikely. Mainly because if we had a 19 year old score 30 for us in the Prem we'd be offered £100million for him and off he'd sail into the sun.

Ritchie's second place spot could possibly go though. It's also certainly possible we could see a player join our own little 100 club if someone stays with us for a long time and consistently scores in that period.

Edited by ExiledAjax
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5 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Wells for me has to be our main striker up top on his own. That's his best position.

I thought Wells + Diedhiou looked decent yesterday. Probably better than Diedhiou + Afobe or Afobe + Wells.

Could be rose-tinted glasses due to the win though.

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2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Yeh, I'll defend Famara to the hilt as a 1 in 3 striker, but you're quite right it's the guys who hit 1 in 2 that are really fantastic. If Fam stays though he should get to 50 in around 150 appearances, that would put him in roughly the same bracket as guys like Allison, Peacock, Sharpe, Walsh and even Murray. Pretty good company tbh.

To get 352 and overtake Atyeo the player would need to probably average 30ish goals for 12 seasons. So that is 30 goals a year from the age of 19 to 31, and without some other club buying him in the meantime. The only way we'll ever get anyone hitting 300+ for this club is if we a) get into the Prem, b) sign a young player or have an exceptional academy striker, c) he manages to score well...but not so well that he gets transferred, and d) he has a sense of loyalty that trumps money. As you say, very unlikely. Mainly because if we had a 19 year old score 30 for us in the Prem we'd be offered £100million for him and off he'd sail into the sun.

Ritchie's second place spot could possibly go though. It's also certainly possible we could see a player join our own little 100 club if someone stays with us for a long time and consistently scores in that period.

Agree with all that, and just to be clear, as I didn’t mention Fam specifically, I have a lot of respect for the guy, value what he offers the team and would be very disappointed to see him leave.

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1 minute ago, CliftonCliff said:

Agree with all that, and just to be clear, as I didn’t mention Fam specifically, I have a lot of respect for the guy, value what he offers the team and would be very disappointed to see him leave.

Something you might find interesting is this list of worldwide top scorers for club football. Not sure it's quite up to date for Messi, but there is Atyeo sat comfortably in 18th position. As you say, a phenomenal record.

Team Player No of Goals
Bayern Munich Gerd Müller 573
Yeovil Town Johnny Hayward 548
Sporting Club de Portugal Fernando Peyroteo 543
Celtic Jimmy McGrory 522
Barcelona Lionel Messi 499
Galatasaray Metin Oktay 497
Olympiacos Giorgos Sideris 493
Benfica Eusébio 473
Fenerbahçe Zeki Rıza Sporel 470
Wycombe Wanderers Tony Horseman 416
Barnet Arthur Morris 403
Slavia Prague Josef "Pepi" Bican 395
Everton Dixie Dean 383
Rangers Jimmy Smith 381
Athletico Bilbao Telmo Zarra 367
Real Madrid Cristiano Ronaldo 359
FC Porto Fernando Gomes 352
Bristol City John Atyeo 351
Liverpool Ian Rush 346
Middlesbrough George Camsell 345
OGC Nice Joaquín Valle 339
R.S.C. Anderlecht Joseph Mermans 338
Derby County Steve Bloomer 332
West Ham United Vic Watson 326
Wolverhampton Wanderers Steve Bull 306
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4 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I thought Wells + Diedhiou looked decent yesterday. Probably better than Diedhiou + Afobe or Afobe + Wells.

Could be rose-tinted glasses due to the win though.

Thought it was ok. But Wells really needs to be on the shoulder more. Having all that space to himself and having creative number 10 behind him.

He was superb at Huddersfield and QPR when he played that role.

I really like Fam. So I'd keep him if he's key to how we play.

But I don't believe him and Wells is the answer and Palmer does not suit Fam either.

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4 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

Fam actually has a better career record than Wells.

They are close but Fam has scored at a rate of about 0.36 per game over his whole career, Wells is at 0.33. That gives Fam a seasonal average of 16 with Wells on 15.

If you look at just league games at Championship and Prem level only then Fam stretches further ahead as Wells drops to 0.29 per game. Wells has 112 goals in 210 games, Fam has 37 in 110. I say including the Prem - Wells has only played 9 games in that league and has 0 Premier League goals.

They are both effectively 1 in 3 strikers, but Fam actually slightly edges it.

 

I've gone from not rating him at all to thinking he is one of our most important players.

Also I think he is playing better now than even for us before.

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4 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

Fam actually has a better career record than Wells.

They are close but Fam has scored at a rate of about 0.36 per game over his whole career, Wells is at 0.33. That gives Fam a seasonal average of 16 with Wells on 15.

If you look at just league games at Championship and Prem level only then Fam stretches further ahead as Wells drops to 0.29 per game. Wells has 112 goals in 210 games, Fam has 37 in 110. I say including the Prem - Wells has only played 9 games in that league and has 0 Premier League goals.

They are both effectively 1 in 3 strikers, but Fam actually slightly edges it.

 

Dont see the point in these comparisons. Wells has played at a higher level for a very small fish in that pond so using those stats is pointless.

 

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7 hours ago, Robbored said:

That’s not quite true. Nahki Wells had a couple of decent chances last night. His Championship goal scoring record shows that he knows where the net is.

Under LJ it’s been the midfield creativity that’s been missing.

Well that’s just you talking nonsense again, our striker with the best goals to game ratio at championship level is not Wells or Afobe but Fammy! 

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7 minutes ago, hail gus cesaer said:

Well that’s just you talking nonsense again, our striker with the best goals to game ratio at championship level is not Wells or Afobe but Fammy! 

Ermmm.....you’re kinda missing my point............:cool2:

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If we keep Fam then for me we have to have another big striker as well. If Fam is a vital part of how we play then it means we need a big striker to come in for him when he is injured.

I really like Kieffer Moore. He's such a handful. Said I wanted him last summer if LJ wanted a big man. I bet LJ regrets not going for him now. Decent touch and decent mobility for his size.

Could even argue we could play both Moore and Fam together. Not sure if that would work but we saw how good Fam with Djuric with him against Birmingham that night we won 3-1.

It's not necessarily what I'd want. But it is a plan that could work. And we could still play it out the back before getting it into advanced areas to get it in the box.

I just want a clear plan going into next season. Players that fit a system. It's so important to get the right combination of forward players that suit each other and a system.

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I so hope he stays; he's such an important player for us. If we can get him on another contract, and he gives us another 2-3 years like the last he's going to be up there as one of the all time City greats. 

But if he does leave, and we can't say a proper thank you, maybe someone at the club could arrange a Facebook tribute page and a Justgiving page for a gift?

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3 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Fam is fantastic at some things but I would sell for a decent price.

What we will miss most is his presence in defending corners.

We desperately need to bring in 2 or 3 bigger players into our squad. But I am not sure I would bring in any big target men strikers.

Wells for me has to be our main striker up top on his own. That's his best position.

I’d prefer the new manager to coach a team to defend set pieces without reliance on having to select a Centre Forward specifically for that.  We saw in these post-covid matches some really big flaws in our set piece set up, and they’ve been exploited.

I really don’t buy LJ’s comment about picking players based on size.  It’s lazy.  Just coach your players better.

Don’t get me wrong a team of Joe Morrell’s would get exploited, but picking someone for an extra inch or two is not really “bright young coach” material unless you are just gonna big full stop.

3 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

I thought Wells + Diedhiou looked decent yesterday. Probably better than Diedhiou + Afobe or Afobe + Wells.

Could be rose-tinted glasses due to the win though.

I wouldn’t say they played well off of each other, but individually they both did well. Wells certainly looks to want to get in off of Fam, but actually Fam won very little aerial ball in attack last night.

I liked that we played a few longer balls (but low ones) into Wells where he’d dropped short.  Definitely tried to play better tempo with Benkovic.

image.thumb.png.68437ae28e955a9a2a074da02b8ed5ea.png

Still not vintage Wells but better.

Fam did a couple of really great controls and spins into the centre of the pitch laying it off.  It was the most I’d seen that type of play for a while....and I think it’s because defenders didn’t go quite as tight for fear of Wells running into space behind them.  

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Fammy is a great striker, defender and bloke, runs his heart out for the team, touch is not always there but he creates so many problems for the opposition!

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12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’d prefer the new manager to coach a team to defend set pieces without reliance on having to select a Centre Forward specifically for that.  We saw in these post-covid matches some really big flaws in our set piece set up, and they’ve been exploited.

I really don’t buy LJ’s comment about picking players based on size.  It’s lazy.  Just coach your players better.

Don’t get me wrong a team of Joe Morrell’s would get exploited, but picking someone for an extra inch or two is not really “bright young coach” material unless you are just gonna big full stop.

I wouldn’t say they played well off of each other, but individually they both did well. Wells certainly looks to want to get in off of Fam, but actually Fam won very little aerial ball in attack last night.

I liked that we played a few longer balls (but low ones) into Wells where he’d dropped short.  Definitely tried to play better tempo with Benkovic.

image.thumb.png.68437ae28e955a9a2a074da02b8ed5ea.png

Still not vintage Wells but better.

Fam did a couple of really great controls and spins into the centre of the pitch laying it off.  It was the most I’d seen that type of play for a while....and I think it’s because defenders didn’t go quite as tight for fear of Wells running into space behind them.  

I think we have so many very short or weak players that it will be almost impossible to coach them to defend corners against the many teams who have a number of big players. Blackburn, Wigan, Millwall etc. Or almost any team as even Brentford play with 2 very big centre backs, a big right back and 2 or 3 six foot plus midfielders. And ive never really thought of them as a big side!

If we were to go with what many want which is Moore at the back, who I'd say is our weakest in the air out of our current 4 CBS. But hopefully keeps improving that part of his game.

Alongside Kalas who is dominant. We sell Fam. And then we are left with Hunt, Dasilva, 2 or 3 out of Nagy, Massengo, Morrell or Walsh. Szmodics or Paterson or Palmer. Eliasson if he is still here. Wells is very short but gets up well, but wouldn't fancy him against some big 6 foot plus player on a corner.

On paper it looks concerning especially when we have Bentley in goal who comes for very little and is not convincing when he does.

3 at the back would help in having an extra centre back to defend corners. But I'd love us to get a bit more strength and height in our side as that could be a big weakness next season.

No doubt the new head coach will be bringing in new players. But I really hope he doesn't bring in too many short players as we have loads of them already. 

I guess if we dominate teams like Leeds and hope we don't concede many corners then that might be a plan. But that's easier said than done!

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3 hours ago, JonDolman said:

If we keep Fam then for me we have to have another big striker as well. If Fam is a vital part of how we play then it means we need a big striker to come in for him when he is injured.

I really like Kieffer Moore. He's such a handful. Said I wanted him last summer if LJ wanted a big man. I bet LJ regrets not going for him now. Decent touch and decent mobility for his size.

Could even argue we could play both Moore and Fam together. Not sure if that would work but we saw how good Fam with Djuric with him against Birmingham that night we won 3-1.

It's not necessarily what I'd want. But it is a plan that could work. And we could still play it out the back before getting it into advanced areas to get it in the box.

I just want a clear plan going into next season. Players that fit a system. It's so important to get the right combination of forward players that suit each other and a system.

Good plan - almost all sides in championship have a big striker on their squad. Sometimes the game just needs a more physical presence upfront & this is where Fam can on his day have a real impact.   

I'd try & offer him an extension on improved terms, has to be more cost effective if he's settled - but if there's a big offer abroad then you understand why he'd entertain that.

Ideally a new management team that can work out how to get the best out of what we have & strategically add

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Be interesting to see if Fam could play behind Wells and Afobe. Flick on's, draw defenders away, and drop back into midfield if we are overrun until a sub could be made.

                                                             Afobe  Wells

                                                                  Fammy

                                                        new mid  Nagy HNM

                                                   JD  Kalas  Baker Moore

                                                            new keeper/Niki

 

Options to mix and match on bench of Niki,(or new keeper) Walsh, Morrell, Benkovich, Hunt, Vyner + new mid, for starting 11.

Plus decisions need to be made on Semenyao, Hinds,Szmodics etc al

 

To leave - either by choice or 'mutual agreement':

NE - (i'd suggest he's signed on elsewhere already)

Palmer - too much water under the bridge, needs fresh start - Europe?

Bentley - sort his head out (new baby can't have helped) - fresh start, our fans have lost confidence which is kiss of death for keeper - will be a star one day

Smith and Watkins - still do very well in upper L1 possibly bottom champ sides - solid pro's but club has moved on.

Pierra - send back, not seen enough for fee

COD,Pato,Weimann - had enough chances, happy to pick up a paycheck for as little effort as poss - move on/terminate contract

Williams - retire

Rowe - done much more than could have been expected of him - help him find new club where he will play. Lower champ side hopefully. Deserves it. 50/50 wether to keep, but would he even make the bench?

 

Edited by SX227
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15 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Why would we assume that he will be leaving. Another thread assumes we will not be signing Afobe. If this us so then we should await arrival of new manager before selling any if the current squad.

He deal expires next year. I said in another thread, he is by far the most improved player in our team. Call ups for his country sees the guy ouzing in confidence. 

In Covid/Post Covid world. It might be better for all concerned that he sign a two year extension. Keeps him here for 3 year's. He gets stability, a club that loves him. We get a mobile forward, who defends like a beast, and knows where the back of the net is.

That's good business. 

15 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Why would we assume that he will be leaving. Another thread assumes we will not be signing Afobe. If this us so then we should await arrival of new manager before selling any if the current squad.

He deal expires next year. I said in another thread, he is by far the most improved player in our team. Call ups for his country sees the guy ouzing in confidence. 

In Covid/Post Covid world. It might be better for all concerned that he sign a two year extension. Keeps him here for 3 year's. He gets stability, a club that loves him. We get a mobile forward, who defends like a beast, and knows where the back of the net is.

That's good business. 

15 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Why would we assume that he will be leaving. Another thread assumes we will not be signing Afobe. If this us so then we should await arrival of new manager before selling any if the current squad.

He deal expires next year. I said in another thread, he is by far the most improved player in our team. Call ups for his country sees the guy ouzing in confidence. 

In Covid/Post Covid world. It might be better for all concerned that he sign a two year extension. Keeps him here for 3 year's. He gets stability, a club that loves him. We get a mobile forward, who defends like a beast, and knows where the back of the net is.

That's good business. 

15 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Why would we assume that he will be leaving. Another thread assumes we will not be signing Afobe. If this us so then we should await arrival of new manager before selling any if the current squad.

He deal expires next year. I said in another thread, he is by far the most improved player in our team. Call ups for his country sees the guy ouzing in confidence. 

In Covid/Post Covid world. It might be better for all concerned that he sign a two year extension. Keeps him here for 3 year's. He gets stability, a club that loves him. We get a mobile forward, who defends like a beast, and knows where the back of the net is.

That's good business. 

15 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Why would we assume that he will be leaving. Another thread assumes we will not be signing Afobe. If this us so then we should await arrival of new manager before selling any if the current squad.

He deal expires next year. I said in another thread, he is by far the most improved player in our team. Call ups for his country sees the guy ouzing in confidence. 

In Covid/Post Covid world. It might be better for all concerned that he sign a two year extension. Keeps him here for 3 year's. He gets stability, a club that loves him. We get a mobile forward, who defends like a beast, and knows where the back of the net is.

That's good business. 

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14 hours ago, Robbored said:

That’s not quite true. Nahki Wells had a couple of decent chances last night. His Championship goal scoring record shows that he knows where the net is.

Under LJ it’s been the midfield creativity that’s been missing.

yes thought he done ok aswell .

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I was pro selling him but his display the other night. Yes it was only Hull at home, but he was excellent.

Goal- tick

Won free kick that led to 2nd- tick.

Created several chances with the final pass- 'would be assists' in other words- tick.

I wouldn't be averse to keeping him as he has certainly improved in recent months in a number of areas, but OTOH I also recognise he's a saleable asset. Final year of contract also makes it a risk holding on...see also Eliasson.

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22 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I was pro selling him but his display the other night. Yes it was only Hull at home, but he was excellent.

Goal- tick

Won free kick that led to 2nd- tick.

Created several chances with the final pass- 'would be assists' in other words- tick.

I wouldn't be averse to keeping him as he has certainly improved in recent months in a number of areas, but OTOH I also recognise he's a saleable asset. Final year of contract also makes it a risk holding on...see also Eliasson.

Honestly I'd sell Eliasson and use the money to give Fam an extra £5k a week.

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3 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

Honestly I'd sell Eliasson and use the money to give Fam an extra £5k a week.

One thing I maybe wasn't thinking about when replying to you on Wells and Fam is how bad Weimann was in behind them.

I do think Wells is best on his own. But have a better link player in behind them and it may work a lot better.

Paterson maybe the best in terms of work rate and ability on the ball and very good end product too.

I think that's the only way Fam and Wells could work well. As in the 442 we have seen it really does not work as Wells has to constantly drop off and is doing too much work with his back to goal or wide or deep. Not on the shoulder or in the box.

A quality link player like Pato in a 3412 might be the answer in getting Fam and Wells to work.

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2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

One thing I maybe wasn't thinking about when replying to you on Wells and Fam is how bad Weimann was in behind them.

I do think Wells is best on his own. But have a better link player in behind them and it may work a lot better.

Paterson maybe the best in terms of work rate and ability on the ball and very good end product too.

I think that's the only way Fam and Wells could work well. As in the 442 we have seen it really does not work as Wells has to constantly drop off and is doing too much work with his back to goal or wide or deep. Not on the shoulder or in the box.

A quality link player like Pato in a 3412 might be the answer in getting Fam and Wells to work.

I've always thought that Weimann, whilst there's a good player in there, just seems to work on a different plan to everyone else. He can't link up with anyone, it's like his mind works differently to anyone else. 

Up,to a point that's been a problem throughout the team recently, but never more obvious, or more consistently an issue, than with AW. 

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15 hours ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Where has this come from anyway? Fam is our best defender (at corners)

He isn't 1v1. He occupies a zone. City use mixes of man for man marking and zonal marking and blockers. Famara is an obvious (tall) choice for zonal marking. He is with respect no man for man marker.

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22 hours ago, Johnny Musicworks said:

Assuming he leaves at the end of the season we will not be able to give a fitting send off to Fam. Last night he showed once again just how important a player he has become. A well taken goal and one of the few players who seemed to understand how to keep possession and do the defensive job at set pieces.

He constantly hustled across the pitch and as time was running down did the basics right rather than trying to be fancy and risk giving the ball away. Along with many others I have criticised him for his finishing over his time with us but he must be a managers dream. Always battling always running and a more than respectable goals tally. Our fans get excited about Adobe and Wells and few can honestly say that he wouldn’t be third choice behind those two but in reality he has been our biggest threat   for some time. We are going to miss you Fam and your smile, a true Knowle legend !

Who said Fam is leaving ? Why the assumptions ??. I love watching Fam play and plays 100% to his ability at all times. He would be a great loss if he did leave but wondering why the assumptions are out there that he’s going to leave. “We are going to miss you Fam and your smile “ where did this crap come from 

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