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11 minutes ago, marcofisher said:

Is it inconceivable to people that we could appoint a manager of pedigree that fits within the structure of our football club?

I think that is a fair statement.  There’s structure and there’s structure.  If we take McCarthy and Hughton.  Both worked under DoFs.

McCarthy was still the main man, Dave Bowman was really recruitment only, and had followed McCarthy from Millwall, Wolves and Sunderland.  Former chief scout....not an MA type DoF / CEO...and also not the Dave Bowman who played for Dundee and Coventry.

Hughton worked under Dan Ashworth, the former FA man, who had been at Norwich as a youngster.  He was much more the Mark Ashton model....so there is hope of a fit.

Ashworth quote:

However, as Ashworth explained, the role does vary massively from club to club.

“This project (at Brighton) was fantastic for me, because it was a proper Technical Director job,” he told BT Sport (below). “Some are just Head of Recruitment, some are more on the operations and business side.

This was all-encompassing. It had the Academy, loans, medical and was heavily involved with the first team and player recruitment, which was more of a Continental approach.”

There is nothing wrong with our structure at all, it had served us perfectly well during the past 5 years.

maybe not “perfectly well”, but it’s done ok...it didn’t achieve promotion.  That, despite my criticism of LJ, doesn’t lay all the blame at his door.  I think MA/SL need to retain an element of being flexible to get the right man.  They need to accept there isn’t one way.

It's like people think the two things are mutually exclusive, despite many top clubs operating in this way. I can't understand the logic behind thinking that in order to get a top manager we have to restructure completely. It seems a very old school train of though akin to that of Fergie or Redknapp etc, which doesn't really exist anymore.

 

 

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A

3 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

My main concern about an appointment like CH would be that we seem to be looking for a very energetic head coach and that many of the old fashioned management functions would be undertaken by MA.  Lee put an incredible amount of energy and hard work into his role and I would question whether a 61 year old would have that same energy and passion - especially that age signifies physical decline.  The decision would have to be based upon whether or not experience could make up for the deficit in work rate.  Appointing a 61 year old to oversee the career development of many young players is usually seen as a job for a younger person.

Alex Ferguson's done alright at it...

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4 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

My main concern about an appointment like CH would be that we seem to be looking for a very energetic head coach and that many of the old fashioned management functions would be undertaken by MA.  Lee put an incredible amount of energy and hard work into his role and I would question whether a 61 year old would have that same energy and passion - especially that age signifies physical decline.  The decision would have to be based upon whether or not experience could make up for the deficit in work rate.  Appointing a 61 year old to oversee the career development of many young players is usually seen as a job for a younger person.

I don’t think you’d have any of those doubts with Hughton.  His whole demeanour is of a bloke who can cope.  Far fitter than LJ too on a physical aspect!

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Just now, Davefevs said:

I don’t think you’d have any of those doubts with Hughton.  His whole demeanour is of a bloke who can cope.  Far fitter than LJ too on a physical aspect!

Hope you are not going to get into fattist remark territory......

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Think that was a decent interview.

Clearly, we want to raise the profile of the vacancy and put some basic ground rules down. Achieved that. The stated aim of the ‘Premier League as soon as we can’ was music to my ears.

Hopefully, Steve recognises he’ll need to ‘flex’ the strategy a bit, as I don’t think our failure to get into that Top 6 can be pinned entirely on LJ - so the approach wasn’t/isn’t an overwhelming success. Indeed, given the complete absence of a competitive midfield some might say ‘ The Strategy’ has major flaws!

 

Anyhows, think we should have a good selection to choose from  - probably the strongest bunch of candidates ever in our history. No guarantees, but that reduces the risk of likely failure. 

 

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1 minute ago, Roger Red Hat said:

Maybe that's what they'll do once they've drawn up the list. Maybe mid table championship BCFC with no history to speak of aren't quite in the position of 'proper football club' category to call the shots like that..........................yet!

We have to be bold I tell 'ee. Think like the second city in England (as we once were - I won't mention how we became rich) instead of a backwater.

Nigel Pearson (who we should have got last time around) is not alone in recognising that we are a major city with amazing potential and we are significantly under-achieving at present.

Of course Nigel would have put the sh**s right up them at Ashton Gate. Just what we need. I pray that SL has changed enough with the Johnsonian aeons to take on somebody like that.

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1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Must admit I didn't take that from the interview at all. Which bits made you think that?

SL is very clear in the aim of Premier League football asap (I'm actually surprised about how explicit he is being about that) and appointing an inexperienced candidate is going to leave himself open to considerable criticism if it goes wrong. 

Only thing I will say is that SL has been explicit before and he has been caught out. Kodjia springs to mind. Pretty sure he said he won’t be sold to a champ club. Pretty sure he said top 6 last year was a requirement but may be misremembering that. Point is he has said things before and gone against it later and just because he says one thing doesn’t mean we can’t rule anything out. 

29 minutes ago, marcofisher said:

Is it inconceivable to people that we could appoint a manager of pedigree that fits within the structure of our football club?

There is nothing wrong with our structure at all, it had served us perfectly well during the past 5 years. 

It's like people think the two things are mutually exclusive, despite many top clubs operating in this way. I can't understand the logic behind thinking that in order to get a top manager we have to restructure completely. It seems a very old school train of though akin to that of Fergie or Redknapp etc, which doesn't really exist anymore.

 

Yea I agree. The model is necessary in this league. I am not sure a Hughton or McCarthy would be willing to work how we work. Hopefully a Hughton could but I am not convinced. 
 

It is why I hope we are considering a few foreign applicants. Europe has a lot more head coaches than managers and they will be used to the setup. They have to deal with losing their best players and spreading those funds across the club. 
 

We may not be able to get a super championship experienced manager, successful at this level and work under the remit here. In fact it is unlikely. I am willing to give most a chance but they need to be seriously successful wherever they have been. 

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14 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

My main concern about an appointment like CH would be that we seem to be looking for a very energetic head coach and that many of the old fashioned management functions would be undertaken by MA.  Lee put an incredible amount of energy and hard work into his role and I would question whether a 61 year old would have that same energy and passion - especially that age signifies physical decline.  The decision would have to be based upon whether or not experience could make up for the deficit in work rate.  Appointing a 61 year old to oversee the career development of many young players is usually seen as a job for a younger person.

I think the other thing is that there is a flipside to getting an experienced manager in.  Whilst it certainly isn't the case with all experienced managers, you can get managers who've achieved what they wanted to in previous roles and proved themselves and maybe don't have quite the same desire to push themselves. I suspect Chris Hughton still feels he wants to establish a club in the top flight and has something to prove but, whilst I know nothing about Mick McCarthy, his reputation in the game is assured, he's managed a national team at a world cup, established a team in the Premier League, and held his own at some of the biggest grounds and against some of the biggest managers in the country. He might be happy to do the job but I'm not convinced he needs to do a good job and that might affect how he approaches it.

The advantage of giving a less experienced manager the chance is that they have more of a sense of needing the job to succeed to prove themselves and it is very possble they'd give a lot more to it for that reason. 

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6 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Yea I agree. The model is necessary in this league. I am not sure a Hughton or McCarthy would be willing to work how we work. Hopefully a Hughton could but I am not convinced. 
 

It is why I hope we are considering a few foreign applicants. Europe has a lot more head coaches than managers and they will be used to the setup. They have to deal with losing their best players and spreading those funds across the club. 
 

We may not be able to get a super championship experienced manager, successful at this level and work under the remit here. In fact it is unlikely. I am willing to give most a chance but they need to be seriously successful wherever they have been. 

If they are keen for a good job, they will adapt. Or they can go to a lesser club that will give them more control. What would they prefer? 

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People seem to forget that an expensive appointment could also be an expensive failure, not only in terms of pay off, but how it would leave the club. Having said that, I do think it needs to be some one with a name that the players can respect and also someone above the level of the remaining coaches. I wonder if the slight coyness is because they have identified a candidate they will need to prise from a current role, like Jokanovich for example. Someone who hasn't applied, but that we are headhunting.

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10 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I think the other thing is that there is a flipside to getting an experienced manager in.  Whilst it certainly isn't the case with all experienced managers, you can get managers who've achieved what they wanted to in previous roles and proved themselves and maybe don't have quite the same desire to push themselves. I suspect Chris Hughton still feels he wants to establish a club in the top flight and has something to prove but, whilst I know nothing about Mick McCarthy, his reputation in the game is assured, he's managed a national team at a world cup, established a team in the Premier League, and held his own at some of the biggest grounds and against some of the biggest managers in the country. He might be happy to do the job but I'm not convinced he needs to do a good job and that might affect how he approaches it.

The advantage of giving a less experienced manager the chance is that they have more of a sense of needing the job to succeed to prove themselves and it is very possble they'd give a lot more to it for that reason. 

It might boil down to a choice between hiring a manager with a past, and hoping he still has something left in the tank - or hiring someone who has incredible promise but who still has to make his mark.

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34 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Problem for me is that I feel people will project their assumptions on whoever gets appointed. If the club spoke to Hughton or McCarthy and (hypothetically of course) didn't get the right sense from them in terms of where their heads are, their approach to the role or they had massively contrasting visions to what the club is working towards, I'd far rather we didn't appoint them rather than make an appointment that could not work. And if the club spoke to someone like Mark Robins or Lee Bowyer or Paul Cook and they were interested, could talk through exactly what they would do and were clearly hungry for the job and determined to make it work I'd hope we took it seriously.

But I feel people will see anyone who is not Hughton as a lack of ambition from the club irrespective of what the reasons actually are. To be clear, I definitely think we should be speaking to Hughton. But, as fans who aren't going to be privy to the conversation, none of us can say with any certainty that he would be the right candidate and I feel some posters have already made their minds up how they will view any other appointment, regardless of those reasons behind the scenes. 

I agree with all of that, but it is about the “type” isn’t it?

If we work our way down a list, starting with the Hughtons, McCarthys, Karankas & then get to the Cooks and Bowyers that is potentially understandable & we would still have appointed someone who is proven at this level. 

Adkins & Clough come into that latter category to an extent, too.

If we end up with the Plymouth, Newport or Swindon manager that is not the case & it is inconceivable to me that none of those above was the right fit & affordable or available.

It is then simply a clear policy decision.

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I can't help but feel we may go for a new Head Coach from France/Germany. Someone who understands the role of a Head Coach and is willing to use the pathway from the Academy to the first team rather than buy, buy, buy. I haven't any names to put forward, but where some have a feeling of doom about this appointment, I have a feeling of...."that could be interesting"

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It’s amazing from such a short snippet of an interview so many posters can take a such a different meaning from so few words.  
The only thing I know is there are lots of applicants. And he wants the successful candidate to get us over the line. 

He never said if they were looking at managers still in a job, Because a manager in a job could Not be an applicant, or could he ? ie Robbins. 
 

Oh s**t. Now I am playing the same game 😂

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Just listened to the very short interview, thanks Talk Sport. I only thing that gives me hope of not getting a div 1 or 2 Manager/coach. SL said MA and Jl were sorting out a short list. So hopefully they wont include any lower league applications.But as a number of you have said we need to get a move on or we will lose out. As a lot of them are not working at the moment.🤞

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22 minutes ago, marcofisher said:

If they are keen for a good job, they will adapt. Or they can go to a lesser club that will give them more control. What would they prefer? 

I am with you. They get coaching badges not management badges. The biggest thing at a club is scouting talent. The head coach just needs to focus on getting the best from the talent. I am all for it just not sure the older guys will accept so easily. 

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8 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Just listened to the very short interview, thanks Talk Sport. I only thing that gives me hope of not getting a div 1 or 2 Manager/coach. SL said MA and Jl were sorting out a short list. So hopefully they wont include any lower league applications.But as a number of you have said we need to get a move on or we will lose out. As a lot of them are not working at the moment.🤞

I suppose technically Robins is a Championship manager now. 😉

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1 hour ago, milo1111 said:

I can’t agree with this enough KITR.

Hughton has declared an interest. He is a standout candidate and if he doesn’t arrive in BS3 it can only be one of two reasons a) we couldn’t afford him (highly unlikely) b) our organisational structure would stop him doing his job effectively.

What utter nonsense and tittle tattle. Stop trying to second guess lansdown and get behind your club. 

Last thing we need is negativity.

Posts like this help nobody

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18 minutes ago, DT The Optimist said:

It’s amazing from such a short snippet of an interview so many posters can take a such a different meaning from so few words.  
The only thing I know is there are lots of applicants. And he wants the successful candidate to get us over the line. 

He never said if they were looking at managers still in a job, Because a manager in a job could Not be an applicant, or could he ? ie Robbins. 
 

Oh s**t. Now I am playing the same game 😂

You never applied for a job whilst being in one?

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26 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

It might boil down to a choice between hiring a manager with a past, and hoping he still has something left in the tank - or hiring someone who has incredible promise but who still has to make his mark.

I think, in a way, that is the choice with any managerial appointment (and that's probably not restricted to football but in any walk of life). But I think the problem is some people seem to feel "appointing this person" or "appointing this type of manager" is a guarantee of success. But of course, in reality, every appointment is a gamble in its own way and none of us know how any manager will pan out...

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Seems like he's keeping his cards very close to his chest for now, probably wisely.

Was good that he explicitly stated the intention to get to the prem, but then if you're in charge of a top half team it'd be embarrassing not to state that?

I think we will definitely get someone with experience of promotion, but wouldn't be surprised if it's only promotion from league one (mark robins or Paul cook). I think we will try and hold out until the end of the season to see if any premier league managers become available perhaps, but this obviously has a risk that people like Hughton could get snapped up first...

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

You never applied for a job whilst being in one?

Not if your on a fixed contract. Did not think managers could apply for other jobs unless they got ‘permission’ from owner/ board. Usual scenario is a club approaches  the club and asks for permission to speak to the manager. Normally bit huffing and puffing if permission granted. 

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1 minute ago, DT The Optimist said:

Not if your on a fixed contract. Did not think managers could apply for other jobs unless they got ‘permission’ from owner/ board. Usual scenario is a club approaches  the club and asks for permission to speak to the manager. Normally bit huffing and puffing if permission granted. 

This is football 😜😜😜

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14 minutes ago, jonnybenn said:

What utter nonsense and tittle tattle. Stop trying to second guess lansdown and get behind your club. 

Last thing we need is negativity.

Posts like this help nobody

Jonny L more like.

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4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

This is football 😜😜😜

True. But I do think we do things right way.
Cannot see Ashton tapping up other managers in post? Without doing it by making official approach. especially with his role with the EFL
you could almost guarantee there would then be a leak! I am thinking of the likes of Cook & Robbins at clubs.

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5 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I think, in a way, that is the choice with any managerial appointment (and that's probably not restricted to football but in any walk of life). But I think the problem is some people seem to feel "appointing this person" or "appointing this type of manager" is a guarantee of success. But of course, in reality, every appointment is a gamble in its own way and none of us know how any manager will pan out...

Of course you are right but in our case someone has to decide if we are hiring someone to fit the existing structure or someone who will start all over again and create a structure in his own image. Could you imagine someone like Warnock or even McCarthy being shoehorned into a structure that they felt might inhibit their drive for success?  Maybe the brief is to recruit someone like Lee - but without the bad runs?  I have the feeling that the brief may be rather more prescriptive than some people imagine.

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