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Christoph Daum and Phil Neville


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1 hour ago, Kingswoodactor said:

being accused of having cocaine fuelled orgies with prostitutes, costing him the chance of getting the German National team job

Coincidentally, I too have never had the chance of getting the German National team job and always wondered why. 

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30 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Is it possible to be a serial failure when he’s only held one position as manager?! 

His laughable spell as assistant to his brother at Valencia was pretty spectacular, too.

 

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1 hour ago, Robert the bruce said:

Our reputation goes before -

Bristol,,,the coke' capital of Europe...

Partly my fault, that, sorry. Had a South American connection back in the day. It was a lot of fun, until, as is the way of these things, it wasn't. 

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47 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

His laughable spell as assistant to his brother at Valencia was pretty spectacular, too.

Yep - that was a three month spell, but he has still held only one position as manager. Interesting though, I didn’t realise he was a coach under Nuno Espírito Santo at Valencia ....

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11 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Phil Neville is a serial failure who lives off his reputation.

 

11 hours ago, The Gasbuster said:

the other sounds like an overrated, average footballer.

You hear these sort of things about Phil Neville quite a lot, and I've always found them to be such hugely lazy characterisations that a lot of people buy into.

While I don't think he's got the requisite experience in management to be considered for our vacancy, how you can call him a serial failure is baffling. He's had a coaching role at Valencia (that has already been pointed out started under Nuno Espirito Santo, not his brother), and a spell as head coach of England Women - in which even if you consider their 4th place World Cup finish about level (or even slightly below) their expectations, and take into account their really poor form since - is barely enough to warrant being called a 'serial failure'.

As for his playing ability, God only knows how much I wish I'd been average enough to make over 500 senior appearances, play my whole career in the top flight, be good enough to be considered even a squad player for at the time the strongest team in the country under one of the game's best ever managers, and then to play regularly for and later captain another solidly performing PL side. Oh, and just get the 59 caps for my country.

I've always felt like it's so easy to have your memory of his playing career blinkered by the fact he was versatile and got shifted around a lot, and that he gave away a poor penalty against Romania.

To have the career he's enjoyed, the trophies he's won, and then to take your country to a World Cup semi-final - oh to be that average and that big a failure! If only!

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10 hours ago, CiderHider said:

Say again? Look at this medal cabinet then come back and apologize.

He won those as a footballer.

Bobby Charlton is probably the best English footballer of my lifetime but he couldn’t manage to save his life.

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13 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Phil Neville is a serial failure who lives off his reputation.

Struggling to think of a worse candidate.

Tbf out last appointment had a couple league 1 and league 2 mid table finishes and his biggest success was getting Barnsley to the johnstone paint trophy final. 

I'd probably take an ex assistant from Valencia and womans world cup semi finalist, with 6 league titles, 3 fa cups and a champions league medal as a player.

Arguably not ideal but I could certainly think of worse. Ben Garner for one

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13 minutes ago, Berkshire Red said:

Tbf out last appointment had a couple league 1 and league 2 mid table finishes and his biggest success was getting Barnsley to the johnstone paint trophy final. 

I'd probably take an ex assistant from Valencia and womans world cup semi finalist, with 6 league titles, 3 fa cups and a champions league medal as a player.

Arguably not ideal but I could certainly think of worse. Ben Garner for one

His playing record is totally irrelevant here.

Alex Ferguson & Arsene Wenger both won far less as a player, do you think Neville is a better coach than them then?

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Just now, GrahamC said:

His playing record is totally irrelevant here.

Alex Ferguson & Arsene Wenger both won far less as a player, do you think Neville is a better coach than them then?

It's not though is it? He clearly has experience working in a number of successful teams and over a decade working as a player under Ferguson. It's not a coincidence that almost all managers had playing careers prior, perhaps they learned a thing or two in the process? 

As for your other overreaction, I'm not stating hes a good fit, but you're being a bit dramatic if you can think of no one worse?!? 

As for comparison between Arsene, Ferguson and Neville that is about as ridiculous as comparing Liam Walsh to Andre Pirlo! Wenger started managing in 1984 and has since retired, Phil Neville started managing in 2018.

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1 hour ago, Berkshire Red said:

It's not though is it? He clearly has experience working in a number of successful teams and over a decade working as a player under Ferguson. It's not a coincidence that almost all managers had playing careers prior, perhaps they learned a thing or two in the process? 

As for your other overreaction, I'm not stating hes a good fit, but you're being a bit dramatic if you can think of no one worse?!? 

As for comparison between Arsene, Ferguson and Neville that is about as ridiculous as comparing Liam Walsh to Andre Pirlo! Wenger started managing in 1984 and has since retired, Phil Neville started managing in 2018.

The point though is that success on the field does not equate to success in the dugout.  Irrespective of Wenger & Fergusons eventual achievements, the fact remains that they achieved that without having a stellar playing career to base it on.  Therefore the link between on-field achievements and managing capabilities is tenuous.

To say you couldn't think of a worse option is sensationalising it for sure, but I agree that a successful playing career doesn't mean that you will be a good coach.  Some of the best coaches had playing careers that achieved little to nothing, whilst some of the worst won playing accolades galore (John Barnes, Paul Ince, Peter Shilton, Michael Laudrup for example).

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Daum obviously not realistic. He's got off-field baggage for a start and you know, 66...too old!

Were he 5-6 years younger, with a better image, no off field stuff costing him Germany job etc he would be a very interesting candidate tbh. His record does stand up to scrutiny, he's vastly experienced and dare say he has a good tactical knowledge. Though OTOH he's been in the game so long perhaps they'd be outdated! Hard to know tbh.

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2020/03/08/cocaine-and-silverware-the-weird-and-wonderful-coaching-odyssey-of-christoph-daum/

Good article on him.

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1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Daum obviously not realistic. He's got off-field baggage for a start and you know, 66...too old!

Were he 5-6 years younger, with a better image, no off field stuff costing him Germany job etc he would be a very interesting candidate tbh. His record does stand up to scrutiny, he's vastly experienced and dare say he has a good tactical knowledge.

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2020/03/08/cocaine-and-silverware-the-weird-and-wonderful-coaching-odyssey-of-christoph-daum/

Good article on him.

I haven't seen mentioned on OTIB but I think was in the Post that Daum has said in an interview that City responded with interest to his contact and that Jon Lansdown was going to give it consideration. 

1. I don't think Lansdown will like Daum going public.

2. He seemed to fancy his chances (unless it was PR for his image.

3. He would be our most exotic appointment since Benny Lennartson. Boy would be entertaining!

4. Lansdown doesn't like risk or controversy and won't appoint this guy.

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On 10/07/2020 at 11:10, Steve Watts said:

The point though is that success on the field does not equate to success in the dugout.  Irrespective of Wenger & Fergusons eventual achievements, the fact remains that they achieved that without having a stellar playing career to base it on.  Therefore the link between on-field achievements and managing capabilities is tenuous.

Fergie scored 171 goals in around 300 appearances as a no nonsense centre forward - not too shabby!!!

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33 minutes ago, NickJ said:

Probably not very well known he has a very strong personal connection to my neck of the woods, ie Chew Valley. 

Daum? In the story I quoted above he said he had a friend in Bristol who alerted him to the role. Could this be the connection your refer to?

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8 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Daum obviously not realistic. He's got off-field baggage for a start and you know, 66...too old!

Were he 5-6 years younger, with a better image, no off field stuff costing him Germany job etc he would be a very interesting candidate tbh. His record does stand up to scrutiny, he's vastly experienced and dare say he has a good tactical knowledge. Though OTOH he's been in the game so long perhaps they'd be outdated! Hard to know tbh.

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2020/03/08/cocaine-and-silverware-the-weird-and-wonderful-coaching-odyssey-of-christoph-daum/

Good article on him.

Gerrard has a poor headlined past as we also know. If someone does their time or pays their dues then why would you hold it against them? It's in the past. We move on. If he is considered the best football coach then why not interview him?

Age is irrelevant; he is in the same range as Mick and Chris.

3 hours ago, NickJ said:

 

 

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1 hour ago, havanatopia said:

Gerrard has a poor headlined past as we also know. If someone does their time or pays their dues then why would you hold it against them? It's in the past. We move on. If he is considered the best football coach then why not interview him?

Age is irrelevant; he is in the same range as Mick and Chris.

 

Fair. I don't, I just dunno if he's fit the right DNA for the club- I wouldn't necessarily be against this appointment.

True.

Personally, chequered past antics aside I'm unsure he'd be my first choice here- Hughton, Jokanovic or Cook- but he would be an intriging option. Think he probably is, or was, quite a talented manager- albeit one who should've achieved more, maybe would have if not for the cocaine thing. Possible he's past his best age aside in any case though!

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On 10/07/2020 at 14:10, Steve Watts said:

The point though is that success on the field does not equate to success in the dugout.  Irrespective of Wenger & Fergusons eventual achievements, the fact remains that they achieved that without having a stellar playing career to base it on.  Therefore the link between on-field achievements and managing capabilities is tenuous.

Correct, and I think that this has been proved time and again. 

However we still see people making a case for bringing in a high profile relatively recent player (eg Gerrard) on the basis that "they'll command the respect of the players" etc. I've even seen part of the argument for Hughton being the number of caps he got for RoI.

Loads of reasons to like Hughton, but that's at the bottom of the list! 

I'd have thought that other skills - such as those demonstrated whilst being a coach/ manager - were more important.  

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14 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Daum obviously not realistic. He's got off-field baggage for a start and you know, 66...too old!

Were he 5-6 years younger, with a better image, no off field stuff costing him Germany job etc he would be a very interesting candidate tbh. His record does stand up to scrutiny, he's vastly experienced and dare say he has a good tactical knowledge. Though OTOH he's been in the game so long perhaps they'd be outdated! Hard to know tbh.

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2020/03/08/cocaine-and-silverware-the-weird-and-wonderful-coaching-odyssey-of-christoph-daum/

Good article on him.

Daum is a real left-field candidate. I doubt we'd get any other applicants with such a strong pedigree as him though, albeit with lots of the success coming a while ago.

I think we'd probably speak to him though, proven success throughout his career and managed at the top level.

Personally his age doesn't really bother me, if he bought into the ethos of the club I doubt it would bother them much either. It's unlikely he'd be here for 4+ years anyway.

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21 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Daum is a real left-field candidate. I doubt we'd get any other applicants with such a strong pedigree as him though, albeit with lots of the success coming a while ago.

I think we'd probably speak to him though, proven success throughout his career and managed at the top level.

Personally his age doesn't really bother me, if he bought into the ethos of the club I doubt it would bother them much either. It's unlikely he'd be here for 4+ years anyway.

I think if we were going to bring in an experienced old fox like him it would be in a DoF role, but seeing as we're not looking for a DoF, I think we'll be thanking Daum for his interest and saying auf wiedersehn.

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5 minutes ago, mozo said:

I think if we were going to bring in an experienced old fox like him it would be in a DoF role, but seeing as we're not looking for a DoF, I think we'll be thanking Daum for his interest and saying auf wiedersehn.

I don't think he'll be our next manager, but it's very promising that someone of his calibre is interested in the role. Would never have happened in 2016 and shows how far we've come.

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