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New man and Nagy


RedNachos

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3 minutes ago, Lez said:

Well Nagy isnt defensively strong so playing a 3 would suit him.....I also think it would give him more creative license. He makes decent runs from deep Ala Fulham but he doesnt do it enough.....with extra protection it could suit.

 

Agree on that. It just offers that extra protection, bit of margin for error- stops a side being overloaded. Players can be creative with a little less worry about losing possession and quick breaks.

There must be a reason why most sides play that way after all...wonder who is best at DM in that three however- Massengo? More energy isn't he! Smith? Has had injuries and significant ones. Walsh? Seems to be both creative and have a few tacklers. Morrell perhaps? I know less about him admittedly.

It's the same principle, the Nagy point, about why I'd like to see 3 CMs behind Palmer. 3 CM-Palmer-Then maybe pick to suit, two of our strikers depending on opposition, home/away etc.

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20 minutes ago, WayOutWest said:

So you saying you would rather see Morrell Walsh (never played together) and Szmodics ahead of Nagy ...... Riiiight

Interesting to note though - championship appearances 

Morrell played 1

Walsh played 15 times

Szmodics 3 times

V Nagy 21 times. Add in 90 odd games in Series A. 

Hope your not applying for managers job @Harry

No, @Harrysaid one of Szmodics, Pato or Palmer .... you chose to include Sammy to make your ‘argument’ appear more effective ...

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Tbh I dont think massengo is good enough, maybe in a few years or unders better coach.

I'm most looking forward to Walsh and nagy playing together.....the movement, passing, forward runs....simple pass and move football could be effective.....but I recon we would need a powerhouse behind them.

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Just now, BS4 on Tour... said:

No, @Harrysaid one of Szmodics, Pato or Palmer .... you chose to include Sammy to make your ‘argument’ appear better ... 

Smodiczs pato or palmer it's still bollocks.

Seriously, anyone who wants or thinks that Walsh and Morrell will be our 2 first choice CMs next season are both deluded and stupid.

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19 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

At first glance I thought your thread title was announcing the return of Biff - if only ... ?

I thought it was a Hungarian Cop show, not sure if Newman or Nagy is the sniffer dog!

11 minutes ago, Lez said:

Very few teams in this league play with 2 in midfield and 2 strikes.....vast majority go for 3 in the middle and 1 up top. 

Depends what you mean by 3 in the middle....Man City and Liverpool might....but most Champ sides are playing 4231.

8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Exactly.

One way or another there are 3 GENUINE CMs in the bulk of sides- my main objection is that LJ was basically swimming against the tide, making an already difficult task even more so!

I'm sure it suits Nagy- hell it probably suits the bulk of our CMs, to have 3 CMs. Maybe a Hughton or Dyche style could make it work but beyond that...?

Need to wait to see who the new manager is and how his evaluates the current squad.

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2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I thought it was a Hungarian Cop show, not sure if Newman or Nagy is the sniffer dog!

Depends what you mean by 3 in the middle....Man City and Liverpool might....but most Champ sides are playing 4231.

Need to wait to see who the new manager is and how his evaluates the current squad.

Im confused as to why you have mentioned man city and liverpool. And yes you have just confirmed what I said re formation.

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16 minutes ago, Lez said:

You really dont understand. 

If someone says they "dont see what a player brings to the side", that isnt opinion.....that is a lack of knowledge and understanding.

If you cant see that then you're another one who has a lot of work to do.

I reckon that’s an opinion - but you obviously believe you know more about football than most others on here - blimey, perhaps SL should call off the search - the man he wants to take us forward is right here! (talk about taking the cheap option...) ???

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Just now, BS4 on Tour... said:

I reckon that’s an opinion - but you obviously believe you know more about football than most others on here - blimey, perhaps SL should call off the search - the man he wants to take us forward is right here! (talk about taking the cheap option...) ???

I do know more about football that most on here thats pretty obvious.

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2 minutes ago, Lez said:

Im confused as to why you have mentioned man city and liverpool. And yes you have just confirmed what I said re formation.

1. Because they play 3 Centre Midfielders!!!!  Brentford do too in the main if you want a Champ example.

2. Teams that play 4231 aren’t....they are typically playing two Central Midfielders (typically referred to as DMs even if they aren’t necessarily defensive), and then a “forward” three behind the one striker, typically one of those 3 will be called a no10, secondary striker or CAM (I hate that term).  Fulham is a good example in the Champ.

which type do you see teams in the Champ playing....the 1. 433 or 2. 4231

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5 minutes ago, Lez said:

I'm not sure what the point of that was.

Basically to put it bluntly you are coming across, well, let’s just say, very arrogantly.  I wanted to use the word knob, but that’s rude.  You are failing to appreciate people can have different opinions to yourself.  It is a customary on OTIB for a poster to end all debate and give full credence to your own stated view by adding “fact” to the end.  As you don’t appear to want to continue debating, and everyone fall into line with your view, I added “fact” for you.

 

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22 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

No, @Harrysaid one of Szmodics, Pato or Palmer .... you chose to include Sammy to make your ‘argument’ appear more effective ...

Tbf... I choose Szmodics because Harry offered it. It probably makes my statement even stronger. 

I really hope that Morrell Szmodics and Walsh give the next manager a serious headache in selection. Afterall it's what every City fan wants to see. 

But I think it's a bit of a stretch to try and build your midfield around 3 untested players at this level. Just my opinion of course. 

I actually really wanted to see Tommy Rowe play just in front of the back 3/4. I reckon he could do a job there. It would then give Nagy that license to play a little further up the pitch. 

It's all about opinions... I love the debate 

Stevo

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35 minutes ago, Lez said:

I do know more about football that most on here thats pretty obvious. Fact. End Of.

 

29 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Fixed it for you. ?

I think a little "end of" gives the (surely WUM) comment a final emphatic nail in the coffin of anyone else's opinion!  I am a big fan of Nagy, but feel that he has been hampered by injury which seemed to stem from the Hungarian national team's playing him when we deemed him unfit, and I don't buy the idea that a  Hungarian player who has been playing in Italy since 2016 suddenly becomes homesick within 2 months of arriving in Bristol, any family/health issues not withstanding.  But I am happy for anyone to disagree with that opinion! 

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3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Basically to put it bluntly you are coming across, well, let’s just say, very arrogantly.  I wanted to use the word knob, but that’s rude.  You are failing to appreciate people can have different opinions to yourself.  It is a customary on OTIB for a poster to end all debate and give full credence to your own stated view by adding “fact” to the end.  As you don’t appear to want to continue debating, and everyone fall into line with your view, I added “fact” for you.

 

You care too much.

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22 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Basically to put it bluntly you are coming across, well, let’s just say, very arrogantly.  I wanted to use the word knob, but that’s rude.  You are failing to appreciate people can have different opinions to yourself.  It is a customary on OTIB for a poster to end all debate and give full credence to your own stated view by adding “fact” to the end.  As you don’t appear to want to continue debating, and everyone fall into line with your view, I added “fact” for you.

 

bristol city football GIF

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16 minutes ago, New Dazzler said:

 

I think a little "end of" gives the (surely WUM) comment a final emphatic nail in the coffin of anyone else's opinion!  I am a big fan of Nagy, but feel that he has been hampered by injury which seemed to stem from the Hungarian national team's playing him when we deemed him unfit, and I don't buy the idea that a  Hungarian player who has been playing in Italy since 2016 suddenly becomes homesick within 2 months of arriving in Bristol, any family/health issues not withstanding.  But I am happy for anyone to disagree with that opinion! 

They guy is quality. On his game he one of the best midfielders in the division. Like you say, called up by Hungry twice unfit and came back really really unfit. So early in the season, it's like he has to start all over again. That catch up is really hard. 

I think we can all agree we have seen glimpses of what he can achieve. I don't think I like a sight more on a football pitch, of a confident CM player demanding the ball constantly and dictating play. Perhaps we have our on Barry Bannan. Time will tell. 

Stevo

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55 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I thought it was a Hungarian Cop show, not sure if Newman or Nagy is the sniffer dog!

Depends what you mean by 3 in the middle....Man City and Liverpool might....but most Champ sides are playing 4231.

Need to wait to see who the new manager is and how his evaluates the current squad.

This is the main thing, the bit in bold.

General point...4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1. It's an interesting one- I think if you play someone who can easily filter back into a 3 then that's different to if you have more of a pure CAM as the central player in the 3- say a Szmodics, or a Palmer- Paterson maybe he can be considered for the 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 hybrid, but I wonder if Brownhill last but more like earlier this season could've played central in the '3' and helped us have a bit of each. We'll never know now of course!

A good example might be Johansen in the Fulham side of 2 years ago. I think if you play the right option in the middle of the '3' in a 4-2-3-1 then it's a fine line and easy transition between the two shapes in game...Palmer, Szmodics- and to an extent Paterson, not so much!

Likewise Holtby now, though Mowbray is making some odd selections, but on paper as we saw vs us sadly, Holtby can drop in creating the 3 as and when- or had that capability anyway.

If you don't have that player who can fairly easily drop in and have the two shapes switch, naturally that's the word I'm looking for then I think safer to go 4-3-3.

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7 hours ago, WayOutWest said:

So you saying you would rather see Morrell Walsh (never played together) and Szmodics ahead of Nagy ...... Riiiight

Interesting to note though - championship appearances 

Morrell played 1

Walsh played 15 times

Szmodics 3 times

V Nagy 21 times. Add in 90 odd games in Series A. 

Hope your not applying for managers job @Harry

Ok, let me just quantify a bit more from what I’d originally posted as just a quick quip. 
No, I don’t think our starting midfield next year should be Walsh, Morrell & Szmodics. 
It was just a brief comment to suggest that I’d rather have that as our midfield than one which included Nagy. 
I think central midfield is our weakest area and if I’m totally honest, it would be nice to see 3 new players in there, a complete overhaul. 
That’s not likely, so I’ll certainly settle for Walsh as a starter & Morrell to feature more. I just don’t particularity rate Nagy as highly as you do. I think he has lots of energy, has a bravery about him to want the ball, but I don’t think his passing range is very good and I don’t like his defensive brain - he tends to be a bit headless and chases everything down leaving holes behind him without thinking of ‘team’ positioning/structure. 
 

I do want to pick you up on Nagy’s “90 odd games in Serie A”. 
He was never a regular, a shoe-in, a first choice, at Bologna, who finished in the bottom quarter twice in his 3 years there (so not exactly a top quality Serie A outfit). 
In his 3 years there, he barely even played 1-seasons worth of games :

Started 41.
Completed 90 minutes : 23

So basically he started about one third of games, completed 90 in about 15% of games, over 3 years at a bottom half team. 
That’s a bit different to “90 odd Serie A games”. 

 

Anyway, I just don’t rate him. Others may do. My preference would be to sell him in the summer and replace our whole midfield from this year. 

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Nagy has had a poor season, and games often just pass him by. Interesting that prior to joining, he had only played 50 games in 3 seasons, a clue that he might struggle with a full season in the Championship. 
See what happens next season, if he stays. Can’t always blame Lee for players not performing, might just be that they are not a good fit.

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My one hope to come out of this debacle off a Season is that the new manager identifies midfield as a priority for action and buys two, possibly three new midfielders with a bit of physical presence about them.

Unless you have a collection of players with Messi like skills, any more than one lightweight in a midfield three or two in a midfield five are destroyed by the powerful midfield ‘blocks’ in this league. 

LJ was blind to this and has built up a collection of ‘mini me’s’ which has been and continually will be just blown away by the rest.

It ain’t difficult!

 

Naggy, may well prove a tidy player, and be that one or part of a two lightweight combination but jesz he needs to develop some some extra power and physicality over the Summer ‘break’. ...ala Joe and Bobby. The likes of our other ‘lightweights’ could do well to look at their inconsistent performances too and think why did the likes of Joe and Bobby progress while we’ve stagnated.  

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2 hours ago, Harry said:

Ok, let me just quantify a bit more from what I’d originally posted as just a quick quip. 
No, I don’t think our starting midfield next year should be Walsh, Morrell & Szmodics. 
It was just a brief comment to suggest that I’d rather have that as our midfield than one which included Nagy. 
I think central midfield is our weakest area and if I’m totally honest, it would be nice to see 3 new players in there, a complete overhaul. 
That’s not likely, so I’ll certainly settle for Walsh as a starter & Morrell to feature more. I just don’t particularity rate Nagy as highly as you do. I think he has lots of energy, has a bravery about him to want the ball, but I don’t think his passing range is very good and I don’t like his defensive brain - he tends to be a bit headless and chases everything down leaving holes behind him without thinking of ‘team’ positioning/structure. 
 

I do want to pick you up on Nagy’s “90 odd games in Serie A”. 
He was never a regular, a shoe-in, a first choice, at Bologna, who finished in the bottom quarter twice in his 3 years there (so not exactly a top quality Serie A outfit). 
In his 3 years there, he barely even played 1-seasons worth of games :

Started 41.
Completed 90 minutes : 23

So basically he started about one third of games, completed 90 in about 15% of games, over 3 years at a bottom half team. 
That’s a bit different to “90 odd Serie A games”. 

 

Anyway, I just don’t rate him. Others may do. My preference would be to sell him in the summer and replace our whole midfield from this year. 

My view too.

May not be as simple as this but I would look to move him on this summer, thank Korey for all his efforts & release him & then bring in 2 central midfielders, hopefully one of whom would be Jackson Irvine, who has just left Hull.

Walsh, Morrell & Massengo would then compete for the other place & cover injuries/ suspensions/ loss of form.

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3 hours ago, JonDolman said:

If possible I would probably sell Nagy. He has had a few very good games for sure. But I like the look of Walsh and Morrell. I would like to add 2 fairly bigger midfielders to those 2 and Massengo next season.

Preferably one or maybe both of those midfielders can play centre back too to give us a bit more depth in that area as well.

I'm thinking Trevoh Chalobah on loan or Hutchinson on a free.

Might be some good options abroad like that Austrian guy we are linked with.

He’s a player.  Vaulks too had he not got back in the Cardiff team would give you that CM that can play CB.

Was listening to Mrkt Insights pod the other day, and the two Rotherham players I would’ve liked were Vaulks and Ajayi (£1.5m, yep £1.5m....but you aren’t gonna best off West Brom).  He was the opposite, a CB that could play CM.  That game when they had two sent off, he started at the back and then moved into midfield....he looked class.

2 hours ago, Harry said:

Ok, let me just quantify a bit more from what I’d originally posted as just a quick quip. 
No, I don’t think our starting midfield next year should be Walsh, Morrell & Szmodics. 
It was just a brief comment to suggest that I’d rather have that as our midfield than one which included Nagy. 
I think central midfield is our weakest area and if I’m totally honest, it would be nice to see 3 new players in there, a complete overhaul. 
That’s not likely, so I’ll certainly settle for Walsh as a starter & Morrell to feature more. I just don’t particularity rate Nagy as highly as you do. I think he has lots of energy, has a bravery about him to want the ball, but I don’t think his passing range is very good and I don’t like his defensive brain - he tends to be a bit headless and chases everything down leaving holes behind him without thinking of ‘team’ positioning/structure. 
 

I do want to pick you up on Nagy’s “90 odd games in Serie A”. 
He was never a regular, a shoe-in, a first choice, at Bologna, who finished in the bottom quarter twice in his 3 years there (so not exactly a top quality Serie A outfit). 
In his 3 years there, he barely even played 1-seasons worth of games :

Started 41.
Completed 90 minutes : 23

So basically he started about one third of games, completed 90 in about 15% of games, over 3 years at a bottom half team. 
That’s a bit different to “90 odd Serie A games”. 

 

Anyway, I just don’t rate him. Others may do. My preference would be to sell him in the summer and replace our whole midfield from this year. 

That’s probably Nagy in a nutshell for me.  As you know I think he’s decent, and I really like the way he gives angles for receiving the ball, gives and gets, etc.  Those are his strengths undoubtedly.  In a Fulham side of 17/18 he’d be getting 100+ passes every week.

But his weaknesses are:

  • range of passing, he’s not gonna ping a 40/50 yard ball from right centre midfield over the opposite right centre back’s head.  I’m ok that he can’t do that, but then you need a complimentary player in there that can
  • defensive positioning, I’m a bit open on this.  He’s predominantly played with Smith and it could be a responsibility thing, that Smith’s got the role to protect the 2xCBs....but even so, sometimes you’ve got to just do it yourself by instinct.  Cardiff goal was an example.
  • physicality, he needs to build himself uP

Injuries haven’t helped.  This should’ve been a settling in season in reality.  A short close-season isn’t gonna help.  I’ve not been convinced by his interviews, that appear to show mental weakness.  Again, some of that may be down to literal translation.

Its not like City to have a midfielder that splits opinion is it ?

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10 hours ago, Lez said:

That's because you dont understand football.

I think he has a different view on what a midfielder should do. Nagy does not score, play the killer ball, win headers and make sliding tackles. He is a player that keeps the game ticking over with speed in his descions and making an option.  Without him or Korey in the side we lose shape and tempo. I think Harry has a different idea of how midfielders should perform and who is useful.

From year to year every time Korey picks up an injury we lose sharpness, tempo and a man to fill the holes. Nagy for me is an upgrade on Smith. That without, we can't function.

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10 minutes ago, RedNachos said:

I think he has a different view on what a midfielder should do. Nagy does not score, play the killer ball, win headers and make sliding tackles. He is a player that keeps the game ticking over with speed in his descions and making an option.  Without him or Korey in the side we lose shape and tempo. I think Harry has a different idea of how midfielders should perform and who is useful.

From year to year every time Korey picks up an injury we lose sharpness, tempo and a man to fill the holes. Nagy for me is an upgrade on Smith. That without, we can't function.

I disagree re: pass the killer ball, I think he can do and does.....but I appreciate that he doesnt do It enough. I would like to see him make more runs forward rather than sitting back.

Nagy is an upgrade on Smith I agree.

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I think what this thread identifies is the number of bang average midfield players we have, some of whom supporters will have genuinely forgotten we had on the books. Hopefully the new Manager will get rid of at least half a dozen (even more if possible) and bring in two that actually have proven ability to perform week in and week out at Championship level. Being harsh we don't need a 1 in 3 player like Paterson and being less harsh we certainly don't need a 1 in 15 games player like O'Dowda.

Difficult decisions will need to be made on Walsh, Morrell, Smodicz and a few others. Are they First Team starters at Championship level or not and by that I don't mean treading water whilst the player alongside them helps them out? Can they hold down a regular place on merit or not? If not, and it's going to take more than another six months to get to that point, get rid. If everyone wants us to progress upwards then that's where we are as a club. No room for sentiment or pissing about. A relatively small squad of higher quality players supplemented by our best young 1st/2nd year Pro/Academy talent is what we can afford.

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