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Will SL let the big kids play with his toy?


The Constant Rabbit

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Over the years I have seen a lot of posts regarding owners ambition, or lack of, which I always find rather bizarre. Rich men buy football clubs either because they are a supporter of the particular club, of football in general, or as an investment on which they expect a return. They don't tend to buy clubs as a hedge against taxation. As a result they want their football club to do well and are therefore, by definition, ambitious for the club. Talk of lack of ambition therefore usually equates to 'the owner isn't doing what I want which is stupid as I know better' which is the case here. 

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3 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

I don't think employing Chris Hughton guarantees bankruptcy!! The guy will want paying well but will also work within a budget. I don't remember Brighton paying Billions of pounds per week when they got out of the Championship. I also don't recall LJ having to shop at Bargain Buys over the last few years either. If you can afford to pay literally millions for an 18 year old kid (an expensive player at our level in any lingo) and circa £1m a pop for players who have achieved zero in the game like Adelukan then there must be a few spare pennies hanging around the back of that sofa.

With us I would say that less is actually more. Stop taking out and out "punts" on the Adelukan's of this world and spend the same money in a better and more targeted way. Our squad is totally stacked out with very ordinary deadwood (just look at the absolutely massive number of mediocre midfield players we have on the books, it's mental and I've never seen anything like it) when we could have a smaller number of far higher quality players and create real competition...........and at the same time give ourselves MORE room and opportunity than there's ever been for the younger players to come through (which is a major part of the Steve Lansdown brief).

In summary, a "proven" manager could actually benefit us in ways we haven't realised.

Didn’t say it guarantees bankruptcy, just financial misery if it fails. Just fed up with this endless string of posts about Hughton, ambition and the ‘Groupthink’ that appointing him guarantees success. It’s going to be hard shifting players, we have no guarantee of income, a huge squad, so I suspect that the new manager will have to work within constraints, until things change.

Totally agree about the midfield, but when this ‘Groupthink’ was screaming Upgrade last summer, I had doubts. Pack has limitations, but at this level you need grafters. 

I’m relaxed about who we appoint, just see what happens. Won’t be real football whatever, unlikely to be able to travel away, and not sure how limitations will work for home games. Bah!!!

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13 minutes ago, Chappers said:

Didn’t say it guarantees bankruptcy, just financial misery if it fails. Just fed up with this endless string of posts about Hughton, ambition and the ‘Groupthink’ that appointing him guarantees success. It’s going to be hard shifting players, we have no guarantee of income, a huge squad, so I suspect that the new manager will have to work within constraints, until things change.

Totally agree about the midfield, but when this ‘Groupthink’ was screaming Upgrade last summer, I had doubts. Pack has limitations, but at this level you need grafters. 

I’m relaxed about who we appoint, just see what happens. Won’t be real football whatever, unlikely to be able to travel away, and not sure how limitations will work for home games. Bah!!!

Interesting that you mention Pack. He was no Pirlo, granted, but probably the last player in our midfield area that UNDERSTOOD the role he was being asked to play.

Given the financial uncertainty that exists we are certainly one of the luckier clubs in this league given we have an owner that covers the shortfalls within the constraints of FFP and seems happy to do so within reason. We know that the clubs coming down will have the huge advantage of parachute payments but after that we really ought to be in a position to at least challenge next season IF we get this appointment right. Some clubs in our league will struggle massively next season from a financial perspective imo and will be operating under significantly larger constraints than us.

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27 minutes ago, bristolcitysweden said:

I love Steve and he will always steer the club but he should not call himself advisor & there is no need for Mark Ashton. Appoint the right man/women by someone with knowledge of the game and put the new man/women under a budget and let him/here run the football.

But he is a football man, almost all his roles have been within football. You don’t like him, you have made that clear and obvious in your past posts, but you have also made it clear it’s not because of the job he does, but how he looks and acts. We have had many years of very poor value recruitment, he has created an environment where that has improved, yes it can still improve but we have the right man in that position. 

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5 hours ago, Bristolded1987 said:

I just can’t even believe what people think of Steve Lansdown . I’ve been a city fan for 30 years , and I have never seen us in such a strong position as a club. If it was not for mr lansdown we would be nowhere near where we are today . We would still be a league 1 team with the odd flirt in the championship. People who believe otherwise are too young to remember or just simply have no idea 

The latter being most likely 

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40 minutes ago, bristolcitysweden said:

I love Steve and he will always steer the club but he should not call himself advisor & there is no need for Mark Ashton. Appoint the right man/women by someone with knowledge of the game and put the new man/women under a budget and let him/here run the football.

So you want to remove the CEO, and expect the Manager to do the training, financial management/ recruitment, hiring of other staff, pick the team.

Yeah thats gonna work

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5 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

SL has been on the money with the ‘backing ‘ and ultimately, the sacking of a ‘ friend ‘ he has known for donkey’s years . Likewise his Father .

I have criticised the set up as Bristol Cosy Football club but sense that SL , whilst he would love to have made the leap with his protege at the helm , is not prepared to see the club go backwards and will make  the hard decisions though not in a knee jerk style.

Let’s just see what the next coach says to us regarding SL’s ambition but I’m sure he didn’t sack LJ to hand over the job to someone less qualified to achieve it. 

We hope not Major, but this is good ole Bristol City

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42 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

So you want to remove the CEO, and expect the Manager to do the training, financial management/ recruitment, hiring of other staff, pick the team.

Yeah thats gonna work

Yes mustn't go back to the old days. saints preserve us.

 

Not needing to do all of that Tony, but should be in charge of recruitment, training and def picking the team. Just prefer the manager not having to answer to a CEO but directly to the Board as in the past. Only a few minutes ago , MA was constantly under criticism on this forum. It seems we are fickle as fans and yet all of us want one thing...............success for BCFC

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1 hour ago, TonyTonyTony said:

So you want to remove the CEO, and expect the Manager to do the training, financial management/ recruitment, hiring of other staff, pick the team.

Yeah thats gonna work

To be fair, I think much of the (pretty limited) criticism of the owner is that he is a fabulously successful businessman who probably has a ruthless streak and in the corporate world, would seek (and find) the very best management possible. The football side of things however, has never been done like that, and if FFP is cited as a reason, then I would repeat earlier posts where I maintain that with the right Chairman, CEO, DoF and coach we could probably pay for them by virtue of making less expensive, scattergun signings.

Simplistic ? Yes. Does Mr Lansdown know better than me ? Yes. Can I see sense in how he chooses to have the club managed ? Definitely no.

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2 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

But he is a football man, almost all his roles have been within football. You don’t like him, you have made that clear and obvious in your past posts, but you have also made it clear it’s not because of the job he does, but how he looks and acts. We have had many years of very poor value recruitment, he has created an environment where that has improved, yes it can still improve but we have the right man in that position. 

He most definitely understands the business and operational side of football....but he isn’t a football man in terms of the playing and talent identification side.

He is a very good administrator, which you need to be as a CEO / rep at EFL.

He might operationally run the Talent ID dept, he might do the deals, but he isn’t someone who ought to be deciding if a player is good enough.  He most definitely can input into value for money or whether we can afford a player.

If LJ has let him have to much say in choosing players, then LJ got what he deserved.

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

He most definitely understands the business and operational side of football....but he isn’t a football man in terms of the playing and talent identification side.

He is a very good administrator, which you need to be as a CEO / rep at EFL.

He might operationally run the Talent ID dept, he might do the deals, but he isn’t someone who ought to be deciding if a player is good enough.  He most definitely can input into value for money or whether we can afford a player.

If LJ has let him have to much say in choosing players, then LJ got what he deserved.

It’s never been the case though has it? I am sure it’s always been a team effort with LJ and the coaches having a say on their area expertise and Ashton doing the deals. Every interview I have heard from those in the club have said as much. 

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16 hours ago, SX227 said:

For me, that is the million $$ question.

BCFC has been SL's own plaything for decades, not costing much (for him) and a distraction while he gets on with building the BS South Bristol Mega Empire.

It's now decision time.

Will SL be able to let go of 'his precious' and give it to other smarter, better credentialed kids who may do things with it he doesn't like?

Or see that the smarter, bigger kids can make his toy better than he could have ever hoped, and it will be much more fun to share it with others when they have transformed it?

 

It's a worry.

His own son as Chairman of the Board.

His mate who he lets play with his toy (while he watches of course) Mark Ashton, has seeded BCFC with sycophants from previous jobs in many roles behind the scenes.

Yes people, like Lisa Knights and Downsey get jobs for which they are obviously ill-equipped to do - but yes people mean SL can do what he likes with his toy.

His love affair with the Johnson family is proof personified that if you do what SL demands, then there is room for all the family, even Uncle Pete, to get a minute or two (under supervision again) to play with SL's toy.

 

For SL to appoint a Gerrard or Hughton,  just as it was with a Cotts (how did that end - even after making SL's toy better than ever) or a Coppell (again, how did that go?) - means SL needs to alter his mindset so much, that I'm not sure he can.

It's probably why people like Warnock and Moyes never got considered, while LJ was groomed for the job 2-3 yrs before he got it.

A yes man won't stop SL being in 100% control of his toy - ever.

 

Lansdown needs to decide wether BCFC is his toy for life, or wether the Rugby / Flyers success has shown him that sharing can indeed be ok after all.

 

Because if he decides it will be his toy for life, then Holden, Appleby or Flynn are the next coach and there will be a huge player exodus - players of quality who want to succeed.

Still, we can watch Pato,COD and Whiner Weimann run around pointlessly for 90 minutes as his toy slides down the Championship table. And out of it.

Mind you - a L1 promotion in the next few years sounds fun though eh?

 

OR - SL can see that the time is NOW to step back, give his toy to a proven winning manager who has been there, and done that- one that will make it  a toy that is moulded into an elite professional Football Club that gets into, and stays in, The Premier League.

BCFC can be a behemoth.

Ditch a dozen deadwood players to sign the 3 that will make all the difference - 2 elite midfielders and a top class keeper. That's all we probably need to have a really good shot of going up.

 

BUT....  SL will HAVE to give his toy to someone else who will have full control of it.

To remove the 'boot-room for the boys' culture - from DM,DH,Scotty (sorry Scotty) down to every single person appointed by SL, Ashton or a Johnson - they have to go. All of them.

It is the only way it will work - SL has to let go, sit back, remove the sycophants that are strangling any semblance of free thought and give a new man unfettered control over his toy.

Complete 100% control. No interference.

Then you get a Hughton, Gerrard or McCarthy.  Otherwise they just can't do what they need to do to get BCFC to the Prem - and stay there. 

 

Your choice Mr Lansdown - it's your toy, lock stock and barrel.

 

Can you let the big kids have it and make it better, or will it be forever smothered in your embrace.

 

I hope you can let go Steve, because the toy you will get back could be magnificent.

So reading between the double spaced lines, you don't like SL?

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3 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

It’s never been the case though has it? I am sure it’s always been a team effort with LJ and the coaches having a say on their area expertise and Ashton doing the deals. Every interview I have heard from those in the club have said as much. 

I think the problem with the set up as explained to us (forget the rumours at this point) is that LJ is the most senior “football man” in that group....and he does like a shiny new toy.  Ashton can stop him from a financial point of view, but not a football point of view.  If the money is there LJ will spend it ?

We will see whether recruitment improves or not under whoever the new man is.

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20 hours ago, City oz said:

Don’t worry about the aubergines mate. I thought it a valid post and you could be correct.

I'm not mate.

While the aubergine crew are choking on SL's  largesse in the back of their throats, I wonder how they feel about Lansdown and Ashton interviewing Flynn for the job yesterday?

Yes - Flynn of Newport County.

Not Gerrard. Not Hughton.

Flynn.

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9 minutes ago, SX227 said:

I'm not mate.

While the aubergine crew are choking on SL's  largesse in the back of their throats, I wonder how they feel about Lansdown and Ashton interviewing Flynn for the job yesterday?

Yes - Flynn of Newport County.

Not Gerrard. Not Hughton.

Flynn.

Hmm, can’t say i believe that to be honest.

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1 hour ago, SX227 said:

I'm not mate.

While the aubergine crew are choking on SL's  largesse in the back of their throats, I wonder how they feel about Lansdown and Ashton interviewing Flynn for the job yesterday?

Yes - Flynn of Newport County.

Not Gerrard. Not Hughton.

Flynn.

So a not so subtle hint at being ITK whilst making quite clear you know nothing about the interview process. I would like to think they would interview many people for this important change. Even if he doesn’t get the job this time, I would think they would be talking to people like Flynn for future talent banking. They clearly like Flynn as he is one of the people they have entrusted with our academy kids.

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2 hours ago, SX227 said:

I'm not mate.

While the aubergine crew are choking on SL's  largesse in the back of their throats, I wonder how they feel about Lansdown and Ashton interviewing Flynn for the job yesterday?

Yes - Flynn of Newport County.

Not Gerrard. Not Hughton.

Flynn.

Absolute disgrace if true, if someone like Flynn gets the job in the position we’re in I’m truly done with this club for a while! 

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14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I think the problem with the set up as explained to us (forget the rumours at this point) is that LJ is the most senior “football man” in that group....and he does like a shiny new toy.  Ashton can stop him from a financial point of view, but not a football point of view.  If the money is there LJ will spend it ?

We will see whether recruitment improves or not under whoever the new man is.

LJ was like all football managers that I can remember at City since Des Williams left the club.

He managed to "persuade" the owner that an expensive signing was essential to help the club be successful. The only difference with LJ and all the rest since Jimmy Lumsden is that LJ was able to spend shed loads more than any other.

I know that football has changed dramatically since the days of Harry Dolman and Des Williams, but perhaps if SL went back to the "work with what you have" philosophy and only spent big on the final part of the jigsaw, we might have a playing identity and a set of players who would pull together all the time.

Old thinking maybe but if more of our Academy boys had been given more chances by LJ, we might have been more successful than all the big money signings.

Beasley, Ford, Dicks, Cooper and Jordan did it without a bottomless transfer fund. They built teams with identity and team spirit.

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4 hours ago, bris red said:

Hmm, can’t say i believe that to be honest.

SX 227 where you getting this Info from. I see its only about 9.0 or 10.0am in the UK so you sure it was not some kind of er^%ic dream you were having. Have a coffee and start cooking some nice bacon sandwiches with loads of butter on the bread and a bit of HP Source. Then put your sandwich on top of a pile of Heinz baked beans and then you can spill the beans on where you got the info from. 

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5 hours ago, SX227 said:

I'm not mate.

While the aubergine crew are choking on SL's  largesse in the back of their throats, I wonder how they feel about Lansdown and Ashton interviewing Flynn for the job yesterday?

Yes - Flynn of Newport County.

Not Gerrard. Not Hughton.

Flynn.

Tuesday I heard.....hence my mood in my posts on Wednesday!!

23 minutes ago, City oz said:

SX 227 where you getting this Info from. I see its only about 9.0 or 10.0am in the UK so you sure it was not some kind of er^%ic dream you were having. Have a coffee and start cooking some nice bacon sandwiches with loads of butter on the bread and a bit of HP Source. Then put your sandwich on top of a pile of Heinz baked beans and then you can spill the beans on where you got the info from. 

⬆️⬆️⬆️

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37 minutes ago, City oz said:

SX 227 where you getting this Info from. I see its only about 9.0 or 10.0am in the UK so you sure it was not some kind of er^%ic dream you were having. Have a coffee and start cooking some nice bacon sandwiches with loads of butter on the bread and a bit of HP Source. Then put your sandwich on top of a pile of Heinz baked beans and then you can spill the beans on where you got the info from. 

Pretty sure he doesn't post from the UK, in fact same country as you iirc.

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1 minute ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Pretty sure he doesn't post from the UK, in fact same country as you iirc.

Could be but what if his info is true? Nah there’s only about five of us in OZ and I know the other 4.

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