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What Dean Holden has done well


eric04

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I’ll keep an open mind. So far I’ve been impressed, we’ve got the results, and he’s found a way to hide our weak midfield. He knows the players, knows the set up, and will be fully aware of the financial constraints. Wouldn’t be too disappointed if we went for the continuity option, after all, next season may be very weird. If the boffins are right, expect further disruption and restrictions.

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13 hours ago, eric04 said:

Agreed. Simplified the game. That certainly works in the short term. 

He probably actually sat down with the payers last weekend and had a good old chat. Gave them the opportunity to talk at will and express the opportunities in what went well over the last 12 months and what did not go so well. 

Holden is caretaking well even though the last two wins are against teams we would normally expect to perform well but if LJ was with us we would of been lucky to get a draw on each of them.

Holden has probably bought back the players to some basics and encouraged the players to play with a bit more freedom.

No hurry from me in appointing a Gerard or a Houghton at the moment.

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What Holden is doing well is largely picking round pegs in round holes, and credit to him for that. 

However, he has a free pass with these games as we have no pressure on us. We’ve been written off. 

Beating two struggling teams proves this squad was underachieving. Let’s see how Holden does against Swansea and Preston before deciding if he’s a proper contender. 

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20 minutes ago, tin said:

What Holden is doing well is largely picking round pegs in round holes, and credit to him for that. 

However, he has a free pass with these games as we have no pressure on us. We’ve been written off. 

Beating two struggling teams proves this squad was underachieving. Let’s see how Holden does against Swansea and Preston before deciding if he’s a proper contender. 

Tin

round pegs in round holes ? No he is simply being open to the team and the team are more relaxed. He does not have a free pass. No one has a free pass. Ok we beat two teams that are struggling. But if LJ as still hear I bet those two teams would have taken some points off of us. I’m simply stating let Holden have a go for the remainder of the matches left. We won the last two. I bet its a long time since that occurred. 

Please dont come back with square pegs in triangle holes, or square pegs in oblong holes as I was not that good at maths at school.

We have been written off? What by you only I think 

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The major change is one of attacking intent, playing more quickly through the midfield, and just getting more players forward. Can you remember another game recently when our right (wing) back has had 2 decent chances on goal?

The change to 3 at the back and wing backs suits the defenders we have available, plus in midfield he has picked 2 players who really want to get forward in Paterson and Weimann, so our formation actually looks more like 3-3-2-2. How many “box entries” did that provide? Lots.

Admittedly the last 2 games have been against poor teams down near the bottom of the table, but with LJ in charge that would have been no advantage. He would still have obsessed about how to counter the opposition. Likewise the win over Hull has given the players some confidence. Win again against Stoke and that sets us up nicely for the last 2 games, which will really be a reflection of our progress under Holden.

 

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5 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

The major change is one of attacking intent, playing more quickly through the midfield, and just getting more players forward. Can you remember another game recently when our right (wing) back has had 2 decent chances on goal?

The change to 3 at the back and wing backs suits the defenders we have available, plus in midfield he has picked 2 players who really want to get forward in Paterson and Weimann, so our formation actually looks more like 3-3-2-2. How many “box entries” did that provide? Lots.

Admittedly the last 2 games have been against poor teams down near the bottom of the table, but with LJ in charge that would have been no advantage. He would still have obsessed about how to counter the opposition. Likewise the win over Hull has given the players some confidence. Win again against Stoke and that sets us up nicely for the last 2 games, which will really be a reflection of our progress under Holden.

 

If the unbelievable happens and we do get 9 points out of the remaining 3 left then Holden does have a claim on the top job. The players are now buzzing with confidence and playing in positions freely. Playing football how they love and like with out the pressure.

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7 minutes ago, Floatn Over said:

Inevitably, considering an assistant for the main job is a dilemma.  Leaving aside Liverpool yesteryear,  has there been a long term success story of this in the top two divisions ?

Thomas Frank at Brentford? Easier for them though as they have a distinct style and method of Recruiting.  

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6 minutes ago, Shtanley said:

Thomas Frank at Brentford? Easier for them though as they have a distinct style and method of Recruiting.  

And a distinct style of playing too, which also helps. In LJ-speak, they have an “identity”!

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16 hours ago, JonDolman said:

I am seriously thinking we might have to take on Holden. He is doing what i would expect from LJ and that's all I wanted in the first place. High energy, good football and solid enough without the ball.

Not perfect a times today of course, but he's doing very well.

We clearly deserved the win imo and could well have scored a few more.

He’s not under pressure Jon , it’s a free hit effectively . Also , the opposition clubs are not sure what they’re facing tactically so it’s difficult to counter act. It would be completely different if he had the job full time. 

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16 hours ago, eric04 said:

Picked 3-5-2, our best formation

Kept the same team - players get consistency 

Given Wells some support.. Fam takes the heat off him

Taken the shackles off - easily could have gone more defensive away from home, but went front foot by keeping Pato and Weimann in the middle with Smith

Restored Pato to the role of chief creator. (Fascinating to see what Holden can get out of Palmer). 
 

Given the players confidence.

Hasn't slagged individuals off.

Hasn't complained about lack of leaders after signing all the players himself.

Hasn’t changed 3/4’s of the team and told players he can’t trust them.

Basically, he’s just doing what a decent person would do to a squad of footballers, something the previous manager was always incapable of doing.    

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10 hours ago, shelts said:

Pretty low bar . Personally I think he was part of the problem including Macca and think both should’ve been sacked with LJ 

Shocking to hear someone advocating other people losing their jobs, especially someone who has worked hard for the club and who is generally agreed to be a good guy.  You have no real idea if he was part of the problem, but don’t just randomly call for people to be sacked.

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1 minute ago, JonDolman said:

I think he is under pressure in that he might well be out of a job soon and wants to prove other clubs as well as our club that he can do a good job as main head coach/manager. 

I know it's very unlikely he will be our head coach but I'm sure he knows if he keeps winning then he might have an outside chance.

Or if he keeps winning then some lower league club might be impressed by him.

They're massive games for him and his future.

You see it time and again with caretaker managers Jon. The opposition have loads of stats etc of how a team plays and how to counteract it. A new lease of life has come in , in Holden . Ok , the opposition now know were going 352 but are  unsure on tactics + a massive lift in the players confidence and freedom which obviously LJ has stifled for over a year. 
it would be completely different if Dean had the full time managers job and opposition clubs had time to counteract his playing style. As for pressure you say he’s under , well he’s got nothing to lose really . If he loses his job when the new man comes in , other clubs down the football pyramid will see how he’s done with us and perhaps give him a chance . He’s a long way off getting our job imo. 
however , he’s a good forthright bloke and I’d be very happy for him to carry on in a coaching capacity if the new manager is happy with it.  

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1 hour ago, City oz said:

Tin

round pegs in round holes ? No he is simply being open to the team and the team are more relaxed. He does not have a free pass. No one has a free pass. Ok we beat two teams that are struggling. But if LJ as still hear I bet those two teams would have taken some points off of us. I’m simply stating let Holden have a go for the remainder of the matches left. We won the last two. I bet its a long time since that occurred. 

Please dont come back with square pegs in triangle holes, or square pegs in oblong holes as I was not that good at maths at school.

We have been written off? What by you only I think 

Round pegs, round holes - picking a formation that suits the players we have available and largely playing those players in their best positions. 

Free pass - Holden’s under no pressure as he’s a caretaker and not expected to get the job full-time. 

Written off - not by me, by the media. Obviously if we win the next three, we take points off two teams around us and are bang in contention again.

I agree that we would’ve dropped points from the last two had LJ stayed in charge. Long may the winning run under Holden continue, I’m just wary of the bounce factor that often occurs after removing the previous manager.

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1 hour ago, Dr Balls said:

The major change is one of attacking intent, playing more quickly through the midfield, and just getting more players forward. Can you remember another game recently when our right (wing) back has had 2 decent chances on goal?

The change to 3 at the back and wing backs suits the defenders we have available, plus in midfield he has picked 2 players who really want to get forward in Paterson and Weimann, so our formation actually looks more like 3-3-2-2. How many “box entries” did that provide? Lots.

Admittedly the last 2 games have been against poor teams down near the bottom of the table, but with LJ in charge that would have been no advantage. He would still have obsessed about how to counter the opposition. Likewise the win over Hull has given the players some confidence. Win again against Stoke and that sets us up nicely for the last 2 games, which will really be a reflection of our progress under Holden.

 

The good thing for me is that against two teams that played very direct, we were clear that we were gonna try and pass it, and didn’t try to get involved in making it two long ball teams out there.  Nor did Holden make it a touch line battle with Warnock, detracting from what he wanted on the pitch.  Lee would be happy to make it antagonistic on the sideline.

23 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I think he is under pressure in that he might well be out of a job soon and wants to prove other clubs as well as our club that he can do a good job as main head coach/manager. 

I know it's very unlikely he will be our head coach but I'm sure he knows if he keeps winning then he might have an outside chance.

Or if he keeps winning then some lower league club might be impressed by him.

They're massive games for him and his future.

Exactly.  I made similar points last night that he’s managing for his future...that’s a lot of pressure.  And to do that whilst taking all the heat off the players is a good sign that he’s got good man-management skills.  That doesn’t surprise having met the man.

22 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

Given the players confidence.

Hasn't slagged individuals off.

Hasn't complained about lack of leaders after signing all the players himself.

Hasn’t changed 3/4’s of the team and told players he can’t trust them.

Basically, he’s just doing what a decent person would do to a squad of footballers, something the previous manager was always incapable of doing.    

LJ did all of that in public too.

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16 hours ago, JonDolman said:

I am seriously thinking we might have to take on Holden. He is doing what i would expect from LJ and that's all I wanted in the first place. High energy, good football and solid enough without the ball.

Not perfect a times today of course, but he's doing very well.

We clearly deserved the win imo and could well have scored a few more.

In fairness who’s gonna take anyone serious who has LJ as there profile picture ??‍♂️??

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28 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Shocking to hear someone advocating other people losing their jobs, especially someone who has worked hard for the club and who is generally agreed to be a good guy.  You have no real idea if he was part of the problem, but don’t just randomly call for people to be sacked.

You need to get a level of reality here. It’s a cut throat world football as is life . People get sacked it’s part and parcel .

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I think everything has already been said in this thread, but I’ve been really impressed in how Dean Holden has handled these last two games and turned things round so quickly.  

True there’s no real pressure and you’ve got to factor in the new manager bounce and the opposition wasn’t great, but we would surely have made hard work of both of those games under LJ.

To his credit, he’s been proactive and made tactical changes and moved players into positions where they are more comfortable and suited, which suggest this isnt just the ‘bounce’, and shows true awareness of what our problems were and a clear view of how to address them.

It was so noticeable how he was trying to play to our own strengths instead of countering the opposition.  I was also surprised how adventurous we were in attack and I think we had 6 players in the box on the break for JP’s goal, so we are showing attacking intent and look a real threat going forward.  

It was also so refreshing to hear him giving all the credit to the players for the win and he sounds like he’s someone who the players will respect.

I really don’t want us to offer him the HC position, as imho, this isn’t the time for that kind of appointment.  That said, I hope we find a way to keep him at the club, because he’s showing a lot of promise and could very well be our future HC.  

The ideal situation could be to remain as assistant to our new HC coming in, if they don’t bring in their own man.  If he can continue learning under them, he could be ideal to provide some continuity and fill the gap, when the next HC inevitably moves on.

It’s still early days yet, but Dean Holden has started off extremely well, so all credit to him for that.

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40 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Yeah, fair comment, but it just feels wrong to call for a decent bloke to lose his job.  Maybe I’m just an old softy...

If he does, he’s shown in  the space of 7 days he’s a capable coach . Having to deal with the death of his young daughter , I doubt a job loss will worry him . 

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37 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

I think everything has already been said in this thread, but I’ve been really impressed in how Dean Holden has handled these last two games and turned things round so quickly.  

True there’s no real pressure and you’ve got to factor in the new manager bounce and the opposition wasn’t great, but we would surely have made hard work of both of those games under LJ.

To his credit, he’s been proactive and made tactical changes and moved players into positions where they are more comfortable and suited, which suggest this isnt just the ‘bounce’, and shows true awareness of what our problems were and a clear view of how to address them.

It was so noticeable how he was trying to play to our own strengths instead of countering the opposition.  I was also surprised how adventurous we were in attack and I think we had 6 players in the box on the break for JP’s goal, so we are showing attacking intent and look a real threat going forward.  

It was also so refreshing to hear him giving all the credit to the players for the win and he sounds like he’s someone who the players will respect.

I really don’t want us to offer him the HC position, as imho, this isn’t the time for that kind of appointment.  That said, I hope we find a way to keep him at the club, because he’s showing a lot of promise and could very well be our future HC.  

The ideal situation could be to remain as assistant to our new HC coming in, if they don’t bring in their own man.  If he can continue learning under them, he could be ideal to provide some continuity and fill the gap, when the next HC inevitably moves on.

It’s still early days yet, but Dean Holden has started off extremely well, so all credit to him for that.

Well said.

I was hoping there might be a managerial candidate with links to Holden, but I can’t see anyone obvious. He has done himself no harm in his first two games.

His interviews are a breath of fresh air, and I don’t think that it’s because it’s easier when you’ve won.  Keeping everyone’s feet on the ground, focus on Stoke, blah, blah, blah.

I fear LJ would’ve wanted some personal credit for yesterday Had he still been in charge, Deano was just “we’ve all been working hard”.

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I am beginning to hope that Dean is given a season to see how he gets on.

Early signs are that he is a very good man manager.   Given the chance  to make decisions he has also shown that he is tactically astute.

He plays players in their best positions, gives them freedom to enjoy their football and sticks to a formation that suits the squad and doesn't over complicate the game. I also think he has taken away the fear factor.  I get the impression that, unlike Lee, he is focusing on us as a team rather than an over emphasis on the problems the opposition might cause.

Yes, it's early days but, from what I've seen, the change goes beyond a honeymoon period and is down to specific things Holden has implemented. 

Playing three at the back is ideal for City's squad.  So many goals from set pieces were conceded because, whilst our full-backs are decent going forward, they are small and lightweight in a physical league.  From having a non-existent midfield he has set up in a way that protects the defence and feeds what is a high quality frontline.

He's playing to players strengths and so many players are showing they are good footballers.  Benkovic, Baker & Kallas always made a very strong defence on paper but only now under Holden are they showing it on the pitch.  Weimann has been transformed from industrious headless chicken to a productive high energy creative midfielder.  Diedhiou and Wells look like they could be one of the best goal scoring partnerships in the division.  

This squad has always looked to have the ability to do well and a new manager would probably mean a lot of transfers out and an influx of new players who would take time to gel.  Some of our best players with expiring contracts such as Diedhiou might be tempted to stay under DH.

The key for me is for City to compete for the play-offs, but above all to play attacking decent football. It looks like Dean favours that style rather than the turgid football that has been on display for the last couple of seasons. He ticks a lot of boxes for me regardless of what happens in the final games.  Yes, it's early days, but I like what I have seen from Dean Holden. 

 

 

 

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