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What Dean Holden has done well


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1 hour ago, City oz said:

Tin

round pegs in round holes ? No he is simply being open to the team and the team are more relaxed. He does not have a free pass. No one has a free pass. Ok we beat two teams that are struggling. But if LJ as still hear I bet those two teams would have taken some points off of us. I’m simply stating let Holden have a go for the remainder of the matches left. We won the last two. I bet its a long time since that occurred. 

Please dont come back with square pegs in triangle holes, or square pegs in oblong holes as I was not that good at maths at school.

We have been written off? What by you only I think 

Round pegs, round holes - picking a formation that suits the players we have available and largely playing those players in their best positions. 

Free pass - Holden’s under no pressure as he’s a caretaker and not expected to get the job full-time. 

Written off - not by me, by the media. Obviously if we win the next three, we take points off two teams around us and are bang in contention again.

I agree that we would’ve dropped points from the last two had LJ stayed in charge. Long may the winning run under Holden continue, I’m just wary of the bounce factor that often occurs after removing the previous manager.

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1 hour ago, Dr Balls said:

The major change is one of attacking intent, playing more quickly through the midfield, and just getting more players forward. Can you remember another game recently when our right (wing) back has had 2 decent chances on goal?

The change to 3 at the back and wing backs suits the defenders we have available, plus in midfield he has picked 2 players who really want to get forward in Paterson and Weimann, so our formation actually looks more like 3-3-2-2. How many “box entries” did that provide? Lots.

Admittedly the last 2 games have been against poor teams down near the bottom of the table, but with LJ in charge that would have been no advantage. He would still have obsessed about how to counter the opposition. Likewise the win over Hull has given the players some confidence. Win again against Stoke and that sets us up nicely for the last 2 games, which will really be a reflection of our progress under Holden.

 

The good thing for me is that against two teams that played very direct, we were clear that we were gonna try and pass it, and didn’t try to get involved in making it two long ball teams out there.  Nor did Holden make it a touch line battle with Warnock, detracting from what he wanted on the pitch.  Lee would be happy to make it antagonistic on the sideline.

23 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I think he is under pressure in that he might well be out of a job soon and wants to prove other clubs as well as our club that he can do a good job as main head coach/manager. 

I know it's very unlikely he will be our head coach but I'm sure he knows if he keeps winning then he might have an outside chance.

Or if he keeps winning then some lower league club might be impressed by him.

They're massive games for him and his future.

Exactly.  I made similar points last night that he’s managing for his future...that’s a lot of pressure.  And to do that whilst taking all the heat off the players is a good sign that he’s got good man-management skills.  That doesn’t surprise having met the man.

22 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

Given the players confidence.

Hasn't slagged individuals off.

Hasn't complained about lack of leaders after signing all the players himself.

Hasn’t changed 3/4’s of the team and told players he can’t trust them.

Basically, he’s just doing what a decent person would do to a squad of footballers, something the previous manager was always incapable of doing.    

LJ did all of that in public too.

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16 hours ago, JonDolman said:

I am seriously thinking we might have to take on Holden. He is doing what i would expect from LJ and that's all I wanted in the first place. High energy, good football and solid enough without the ball.

Not perfect a times today of course, but he's doing very well.

We clearly deserved the win imo and could well have scored a few more.

In fairness who’s gonna take anyone serious who has LJ as there profile picture 🤷🏼‍♂️🤦🏼

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20 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

You see it time and again with caretaker managers Jon. The opposition have loads of stats etc of how a team plays and how to counteract it. A new lease of life has come in , in Holden . Ok , the opposition now know were going 352 but are  unsure on tactics + a massive lift in the players confidence and freedom which obviously LJ has stifled for over a year. 
it would be completely different if Dean had the full time managers job and opposition clubs had time to counteract his playing style. As for pressure you say he’s under , well he’s got nothing to lose really . If he loses his job when the new man comes in , other clubs down the football pyramid will see how he’s done with us and perhaps give him a chance . He’s a long way off getting our job imo. 
however , he’s a good forthright bloke and I’d be very happy for him to carry on in a coaching capacity if the new manager is happy with it.  

But I'd say teams didn't know how LJ would play either as he seemed to have a different plan every week.

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28 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Shocking to hear someone advocating other people losing their jobs, especially someone who has worked hard for the club and who is generally agreed to be a good guy.  You have no real idea if he was part of the problem, but don’t just randomly call for people to be sacked.

You need to get a level of reality here. It’s a cut throat world football as is life . People get sacked it’s part and parcel .

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10 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

You need to get a level of reality here. It’s a cut throat world football as is life . People get sacked it’s part and parcel .

Yeah, fair comment, but it just feels wrong to call for a decent bloke to lose his job.  Maybe I’m just an old softy...

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I think everything has already been said in this thread, but I’ve been really impressed in how Dean Holden has handled these last two games and turned things round so quickly.  

True there’s no real pressure and you’ve got to factor in the new manager bounce and the opposition wasn’t great, but we would surely have made hard work of both of those games under LJ.

To his credit, he’s been proactive and made tactical changes and moved players into positions where they are more comfortable and suited, which suggest this isnt just the ‘bounce’, and shows true awareness of what our problems were and a clear view of how to address them.

It was so noticeable how he was trying to play to our own strengths instead of countering the opposition.  I was also surprised how adventurous we were in attack and I think we had 6 players in the box on the break for JP’s goal, so we are showing attacking intent and look a real threat going forward.  

It was also so refreshing to hear him giving all the credit to the players for the win and he sounds like he’s someone who the players will respect.

I really don’t want us to offer him the HC position, as imho, this isn’t the time for that kind of appointment.  That said, I hope we find a way to keep him at the club, because he’s showing a lot of promise and could very well be our future HC.  

The ideal situation could be to remain as assistant to our new HC coming in, if they don’t bring in their own man.  If he can continue learning under them, he could be ideal to provide some continuity and fill the gap, when the next HC inevitably moves on.

It’s still early days yet, but Dean Holden has started off extremely well, so all credit to him for that.

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40 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Yeah, fair comment, but it just feels wrong to call for a decent bloke to lose his job.  Maybe I’m just an old softy...

If he does, he’s shown in  the space of 7 days he’s a capable coach . Having to deal with the death of his young daughter , I doubt a job loss will worry him . 

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37 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

I think everything has already been said in this thread, but I’ve been really impressed in how Dean Holden has handled these last two games and turned things round so quickly.  

True there’s no real pressure and you’ve got to factor in the new manager bounce and the opposition wasn’t great, but we would surely have made hard work of both of those games under LJ.

To his credit, he’s been proactive and made tactical changes and moved players into positions where they are more comfortable and suited, which suggest this isnt just the ‘bounce’, and shows true awareness of what our problems were and a clear view of how to address them.

It was so noticeable how he was trying to play to our own strengths instead of countering the opposition.  I was also surprised how adventurous we were in attack and I think we had 6 players in the box on the break for JP’s goal, so we are showing attacking intent and look a real threat going forward.  

It was also so refreshing to hear him giving all the credit to the players for the win and he sounds like he’s someone who the players will respect.

I really don’t want us to offer him the HC position, as imho, this isn’t the time for that kind of appointment.  That said, I hope we find a way to keep him at the club, because he’s showing a lot of promise and could very well be our future HC.  

The ideal situation could be to remain as assistant to our new HC coming in, if they don’t bring in their own man.  If he can continue learning under them, he could be ideal to provide some continuity and fill the gap, when the next HC inevitably moves on.

It’s still early days yet, but Dean Holden has started off extremely well, so all credit to him for that.

Well said.

I was hoping there might be a managerial candidate with links to Holden, but I can’t see anyone obvious. He has done himself no harm in his first two games.

His interviews are a breath of fresh air, and I don’t think that it’s because it’s easier when you’ve won.  Keeping everyone’s feet on the ground, focus on Stoke, blah, blah, blah.

I fear LJ would’ve wanted some personal credit for yesterday Had he still been in charge, Deano was just “we’ve all been working hard”.

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I am beginning to hope that Dean is given a season to see how he gets on.

Early signs are that he is a very good man manager.   Given the chance  to make decisions he has also shown that he is tactically astute.

He plays players in their best positions, gives them freedom to enjoy their football and sticks to a formation that suits the squad and doesn't over complicate the game. I also think he has taken away the fear factor.  I get the impression that, unlike Lee, he is focusing on us as a team rather than an over emphasis on the problems the opposition might cause.

Yes, it's early days but, from what I've seen, the change goes beyond a honeymoon period and is down to specific things Holden has implemented. 

Playing three at the back is ideal for City's squad.  So many goals from set pieces were conceded because, whilst our full-backs are decent going forward, they are small and lightweight in a physical league.  From having a non-existent midfield he has set up in a way that protects the defence and feeds what is a high quality frontline.

He's playing to players strengths and so many players are showing they are good footballers.  Benkovic, Baker & Kallas always made a very strong defence on paper but only now under Holden are they showing it on the pitch.  Weimann has been transformed from industrious headless chicken to a productive high energy creative midfielder.  Diedhiou and Wells look like they could be one of the best goal scoring partnerships in the division.  

This squad has always looked to have the ability to do well and a new manager would probably mean a lot of transfers out and an influx of new players who would take time to gel.  Some of our best players with expiring contracts such as Diedhiou might be tempted to stay under DH.

The key for me is for City to compete for the play-offs, but above all to play attacking decent football. It looks like Dean favours that style rather than the turgid football that has been on display for the last couple of seasons. He ticks a lot of boxes for me regardless of what happens in the final games.  Yes, it's early days, but I like what I have seen from Dean Holden. 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, steviestevieneville said:

A season caretakers job ? Sorry, stopped reading your post after this sentence 

funnily enough, I don't think you read the first sentence either.    I didn't say a caretaker role, I mentioned a one year contract.  Many managers have a one year rolling contract.  It just gives a mutual break clause and is usually extended from year to year.  LJ was an exception in being given a four year contract and that was a mistake.

It would be a brave decision to appoint Dean as there is an understandable clamour to appoint a big name like Steven Gerrard.   The last time Steve Lansdown intervened to get a big name he went for David James so, astute business man that he is, I don't think SL picks players or managers very well.

I don't think SG would work out.  Even Frank Lampard didn't set the championship alight with Derby despite supposedly having an off the scale high IQ and plenty of funds to play with.   As a few have pointed out, the best players often don't make the best managers. Even Rooney has managerial ambitions and I can't see him succeeding either but many fans from a lot of clubs would get excited by his appointment.

Strange thought it sounds, I'd be excited to see DH given a chance.

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19 hours ago, Andy082005 said:

The last two games have been good but firstly, we’ve beaten two teams who have had a car crash of a season 

secondly, the new manager bounce won’t last long. It rarely does 

I actually quite like Holden. Comes across as sensible, no nonsense and doesn’t over think things. I remember his calmness when we scored that winners against Man U....just screamed professional to me. Can well imagine him keeping people grounded during a crisis 

but let’s not forget he ran out of ideas to. Not just LJ 

 

Did he run out of ideas though, perhaps LJ just choose to ignore him.

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I recently posted that if Bolton were to offer Dean their managers job he should accept it, because he was likely to get sacked along with LJ and Macca,

I said that with a heavy heart really because Dean is a really nice bloke, my mate and i often see the team bus arrive at away games and Dean always comes over to talk to us when we catch his eye, and actually bought us a drink in the Harvester at Bolton after one game there.

He has made a difference to our performances in the 2 games so far which hopefully will continue in the next 3 games and who knows could lead to an extension of our season. If this happens it may not get him the job at AG but could lead to a managers job somewhere else, so good luck to the guy.

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36 minutes ago, bcfcnick said:

funnily enough, I don't think you read the first sentence either.    I didn't say a caretaker role, I mentioned a one year contract.  Many managers have a one year rolling contract.  It just gives a mutual break clause and is usually extended from year to year.  LJ was an exception in being given a four year contract and that was a mistake.

It would be a brave decision to appoint Dean as there is an understandable clamour to appoint a big name like Steven Gerrard.   The last time Steve Lansdown intervened to get a big name he went for David James so, astute business man that he is, I don't think SL picks players or managers very well.

I don't think SG would work out.  Even Frank Lampard didn't set the championship alight with Derby despite supposedly having an off the scale high IQ and plenty of funds to play with.   As a few have pointed out, the best players often don't make the best managers. Even Rooney has managerial ambitions and I can't see him succeeding either but many fans from a lot of clubs would get excited by his appointment.

Strange thought it sounds, I'd be excited to see DH given a chance.

But it’s a far cry from being in charge for a couple of  games with nothing to lose , to being under pressure to get us promoted. Let’s not forget . Other managers have very little idea how to counteract his tactics if they don’t know what he’s going to do. Ok, they can see he’s going to play 352 but not much else. It could well be completely different after 15-20 games. Nothing against Dean and hope he stays with the club in a coaching capacity , but we need a experienced championship manager imo 

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Holden has done very well in his two opening games. If he wins the next three he deserves to be interviewed along side the top five candidates and i have no doubt will be, if the form continues!

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2 hours ago, bcfcnick said:

funnily enough, I don't think you read the first sentence either.    I didn't say a caretaker role, I mentioned a one year contract.  Many managers have a one year rolling contract.  It just gives a mutual break clause and is usually extended from year to year.  LJ was an exception in being given a four year contract and that was a mistake.

It would be a brave decision to appoint Dean as there is an understandable clamour to appoint a big name like Steven Gerrard.   The last time Steve Lansdown intervened to get a big name he went for David James so, astute business man that he is, I don't think SL picks players or managers very well.

I don't think SG would work out.  Even Frank Lampard didn't set the championship alight with Derby despite supposedly having an off the scale high IQ and plenty of funds to play with.   As a few have pointed out, the best players often don't make the best managers. Even Rooney has managerial ambitions and I can't see him succeeding either but many fans from a lot of clubs would get excited by his appointment.

Strange thought it sounds, I'd be excited to see DH given a chance.

Agree, a one year contract would suit us and he is bound to take it.

I am going to wait and see how these final few games go with him in charge, assuming he is still in charge for these games.

Imagine if he wins 5 out of 5 and plays good football which he has so far. I know I would be wanting that to continue.

If a big name had the caretaker role who had no previous managerial experience and did really well over 5 games then fans would be saying get him in full time.

So this really comes down to him not being a big name, which really makes little difference in performing as a head coach.

Of course this all comes down to how he looks as a head coach once all these games are played.

I am open to it, as so far I am impressed by him. He's picked a fairly unusual sort of side which not many would have picked and it really looks like it suited the likes of Paterson and Weimann.

The wing backs look more comfortable with it being a back 5. The strikers even linked up well, something we didn't see under LJ.

He's showing good decision making in his tactics. He seems to have the players respect. 

To be a very good manager/head coach there isn't a lot more to it. He says the right things in interviews too.

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10 minutes ago, bobbyhutchscurlymullet said:

Did notice that when pato scored the second goal, we had 6 players, including Paterson, inside the 18 yard box. Can't recall that happening to many times recently, except on attacking set pieces. 

The effort to get there was impressive.  Fam was 20 yards behind but ended up in the box.  Intensity, desire.  Lovely.

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17 minutes ago, bobbyhutchscurlymullet said:

Did notice that when pato scored the second goal, we had 6 players, including Paterson, inside the 18 yard box. Can't recall that happening to many times recently, except on attacking set pieces. 

I was having a browse of the Boro forum last night and someone posted a screenshot of that goal, highlighting how many we had in the box and bemoaning that their side don't do it enough.

I did feel like registering to point out that it's not normal for us!

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11 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Shocking to hear someone advocating other people losing their jobs, especially someone who has worked hard for the club and who is generally agreed to be a good guy.  You have no real idea if he was part of the problem, but don’t just randomly call for people to be sacked.

A lot of clubs start with a clean slate . I thought that’s what we would do . Pretty sure they know the pitfalls of the football industry . I take it you thought LJ should still be in a job ?

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12 hours ago, shelts said:

A lot of clubs start with a clean slate . I thought that’s what we would do . Pretty sure they know the pitfalls of the football industry . I take it you thought LJ should still be in a job ?

No, I thought LJ had to go, but I don’t think that his back room staff should automatically follow him.  In what other business does everyone else get sacked if the manager goes?  

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9 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

No, I thought LJ had to go, but I don’t think that his back room staff should automatically follow him.  In what other business does everyone else get sacked if the manager goes?  

Fair point 

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On 12/07/2020 at 13:00, bcfcnick said:

I am beginning to hope that Dean is given a season to see how he gets on.

Early signs are that he is a very good man manager.   Given the chance  to make decisions he has also shown that he is tactically astute.

He plays players in their best positions, gives them freedom to enjoy their football and sticks to a formation that suits the squad and doesn't over complicate the game. I also think he has taken away the fear factor.  I get the impression that, unlike Lee, he is focusing on us as a team rather than an over emphasis on the problems the opposition might cause.

Yes, it's early days but, from what I've seen, the change goes beyond a honeymoon period and is down to specific things Holden has implemented. 

Playing three at the back is ideal for City's squad.  So many goals from set pieces were conceded because, whilst our full-backs are decent going forward, they are small and lightweight in a physical league.  From having a non-existent midfield he has set up in a way that protects the defence and feeds what is a high quality frontline.

He's playing to players strengths and so many players are showing they are good footballers.  Benkovic, Baker & Kallas always made a very strong defence on paper but only now under Holden are they showing it on the pitch.  Weimann has been transformed from industrious headless chicken to a productive high energy creative midfielder.  Diedhiou and Wells look like they could be one of the best goal scoring partnerships in the division.  

This squad has always looked to have the ability to do well and a new manager would probably mean a lot of transfers out and an influx of new players who would take time to gel.  Some of our best players with expiring contracts such as Diedhiou might be tempted to stay under DH.

The key for me is for City to compete for the play-offs, but above all to play attacking decent football. It looks like Dean favours that style rather than the turgid football that has been on display for the last couple of seasons. He ticks a lot of boxes for me regardless of what happens in the final games.  Yes, it's early days, but I like what I have seen from Dean Holden. 

 

 

 

All very logical points in favor of Dean Holden for manager.

However well he's done with two matches, he's a novice and we are looking, I hope, for a proven, promotion winning, manager to get us to the Premier League.

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I've seen mentioned a few times in this post that we've only won against a couple of clubs that are struggling. That may be the case but how many times have we come unstuck against the "struggling" sides, too many to mention I fear. What DH has done is to lift a struggling side into believing again & lifted the moral of the playing group. If it continues I would have no problem in him taking his chances, after all most coaches/managers have been assistants in various leagues at some stage & if we don't land the bigger names mentioned we will probably take on someone from the lower leagues that has no championship experience.

If it becomes a choice between DH (only if the improvement continues) or someone with no experience at championship level, then I'd take DH.

Just off to get my hard hat !!! :gasmask: 

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