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Steven Gerrard


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On 11/07/2020 at 23:03, Dastardly and Muttley said:

If he’s on a shortlist with Hughton, Bowyer and Lowe, then that’s not a bad look.

Hughton - experienced, knows how to get out of the league.

Gerrard - big name, contacts.

Bowyer - overachieved at a basket case club.

Lowe - 2 successive promotions with different clubs.

I don’t actually mind that as a shortlist for interview. See who comes out on top after that.

 

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IMO

Hughton - Premier league manager or "big" championship club

Gerrard - Big name just bsigned contract extension at Rangers and next job will be premier league probably Liverpool

Bowyer - League 1 success but managing a team fighting relegation 

Lowe - League 2 ????

out of these 4 Bowyer and Lowe are the ones most likely to take the job both very uninspiring.

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14 hours ago, eric04 said:

I never get this argument. It’s not like we are asking him to play central midfield? ??‍♂️

... But we might be asking Gerrard to do so. 

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24 minutes ago, Hare Island said:

Also ruling out P Neville and MvB. So get ready for a three way job share.

Well as far as I know Van Bommel was never linked to us. He was just a suggestion on OTIB so no surprise Gregor hasn't heard anything (reminds me of Massengo/Chelseagate!)

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6 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Gerrard standing on the touchline would surely not get any more out of those players that played Saturday.

Why not?  It wasn’t perfect was it.

And if the tactics are not that special, if the players soon realise he is not such a special coach then they soon won't care how good a footballer he was.

Lots of “ifs“ re Gerrard for you Jon in terms of predicting a future negative about him.  We are not close enough to the SPL to judge his credentials like we might some other candidates.  There are pros and cons with all those our our shortlists.  It’s fine to be against Gerrard’s appointment, I just don’t think you need to come up with “if” scenarios to give your opinion.  I think in your opinion  (feel free to correct me) he’s not experienced enough, hasn’t done enough at Rangers, etc to let his playing career carry him into a job here.  I think many will agree with that.  Unfortunately we don’t have the level of knowledge to know how well he’s really done (or not).

Kent is better at Rangers because it's a worse standard and he is 2 years older so going to be better than he was.

Makes sense.

 

 

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A lot of rangers fans don't seem to rate him on their forum. Hasn't won any silverware whilst been there and apparently his signings haven't exactly lit up ibrox. 

Personally I'm in 2 minds about this one. Lampard did well last year at Derby in his first season in charge used his contacts well and moved on to the Chelsea job maybe Gerrard could be the same but at the same time he's not experienced enough for me and as stated earlier hasn't won silverware at club level. 

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95% of being successful is having the best players. Having Gerrard is going to attract better players than keeping a Dean Holden or having a Lee Johnson. Hughton won’t be at that level but again an improvement on LJ you’d think with the experience. 
 

Point is, the risk is already taken by letting LJ go. I am not so sure it that much more risky to appoint a Gerrard over a Hughton. We don’t/won’t know how the players will react to the new man. We don’t/won’t know what players they can attract. At the end of the day, the big names linked with the job is progress. Possibly a lower league coach can do the job but opens the club up to a lot of scrutiny if it goes badly. Now is the time to go big. If it fails they can then say we tried that route and it didn’t work. So whether Hughton, Jokanovic, Gerrard, Terry or McCarthy(more of a meh candidate even though I am a big fan) think it is time to take the big leap

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19 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

But it's also guessing Gerrard is a great manager.

At this point he doesn’t need to be “great”, just better than LJ!!!

So far it doesn't seem that is the case going by some Rangers fans. And what I've seen of them I wasn't particularly impressed.

What are you expecting?  Scottish Prem is very different to the Champ, plus he’s trying to play against certain types in the SPL, and more technical teams in Europe, where he’s done pretty well to get them through qualifying and the group stages, into the last 16.  That might lend itself to a view that he’s quite tactically aware.  But I’m guessing.

Remember Rangers aren’t the Rangers of old.

Didn't seem like a team I would watch and think whoever that manager is he is making them look really impressive, I wish we had him.

sometimes you play to your resources, as I said Scotland is a different brand of football.  Have a listen to the Mrkt Insight pods, they give a good feel for comparisons between both leagues.

As for the motivating players to work harder. I can't imagine any manager making Weimann, Pato, Smith, the 2 up top who were shattered by about 60 minutes. And the likes of Hunt who didn't stop running and Dasilva too.

none of us know....but look at Bielsa....he certainly can.  Not comparing the two, but players will run through proverbial “brick walls” for some managers.

In response to the person saying he will get an extra 5% by just being Steven Gerrard. Well I don't think anyone could really get more hard work from that 11 that played Saturday.

as above none of us know.  You are no more right or wrong than the person whose view you are challenging.

But then that's never really been a problem with the current bunch. As we generally have players that don't stop running.

there’s running and there’s running.  Running for the sake of it is different to running with purpose.  The way 6 players broke from Bentley’s catch was running with purpose.  A good sign.

So I don't think Gerrard being a name makes a difference in terms of how hard the players will try. And I can't see evidence of a top quality head coach going by what he has done so far at Rangers.

you’d be surprised what the right type can bring.  Not saying Gerrard is the right type, but you’d be amazed at how an 18 year old loanee can raise raise levels of application (Tammy)...so quite possible a world class player might raise levels too.  We don’t know.

Some Rangers fans say he has done a decent enough job but can't see much higher praise than that. Some don't even think that.

Most people, or more likely every person that wants Gerrard wants him because he is a big name.

Hughton is my number one, but I think we need to look beyond it bring because he’s a big name.  The guy hasn’t sat there waiting for a Prem club has he.  He’s spent a year at Liverpool’s Academy, not taken the first job offered (MK Dons), gone to Rangers to learn his trade.  He’s not taken an easy route.  These “types” are usually very driven characters.  That is not to be sniffed at.  These are the guys who as players stayed behind at training to make themselves better.  They are probably little different in everything they do.

I don't see that as being at all a good reason to give him the job. If some unknown guy had done exactly the same as Gerrard at Rangers then no one would want him here.

I don’t think that’s true.  You’ve only got to look at the names mentioned on here to know that OTIB isn’t just looking for a “name”.

There are several worthy candidates, some will be more worthy than others.  Some of the ones we want, won’t want to come here.  It’s fine to debate it, it would be boring otherwise, but personally I’m just staying open minded about all candidates (perhaps not all), who knows how good or bad someone interviews, how they buy into the model, the budget, etc.

 

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4 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I think the next manager has to be far better than LJ. If its simply anyone better than LJ that you say then it seems Holden would be fine. As LJ had lost the plot and it looks like Holden has improved us massively.

I disagree on this. I don't think we need far better than LJ, just someone that doesn't fall foul of over thinking and is more assertive in what they believe in.  I also don't think we can claim that Holden is better than LJ. He is in a nothing to lose scenario where he can just take the shackles off the team, but that doesn't tell us about how he'd cope with the rollercoaster of a full season. Like all of our options, he could turn out to be worse. Unlike Hughton, he doesn't have the track record.

What Gerrard has done so far at Rangers seems to me to be nothing special. I want someone who does very well, or even overachieves, not just done okay at the previous club.

Yeah, Gerrard is a gamble too. He's more experienced than Holden though, and he has proven pedigree as a leader on the pitch. Still a gamble.

Bielsa's players don't work any harder than our players did on Saturday imo. They simply know where to run, and what to do in the very intelligent Bielsa set up. I think its a bit of an old fashioned belief that simply inspiring and motivating players gets results. You need the players that are willing to and can physically do the work. And then its all about what they're being taught on the training ground.

I think our side has always worked hard, even when in the LJ ruts.

The 5% extra comment from the previous poster, well its a bit like any football opinion, there is no way of proving Gerrard does not get an extra 5% from his players. But if a top level ex player gets 5% extra from players just because they are a big name then surely all clubs should get them in, as that's a massive advantage.

I don't know what Fevs meant by the 5%, but I do think that Gerrard would be the one to most excite the squad. They'd want to be on his side which would help in the early months of his tenure, but that would be lost if training was poor, selection issues occurred, abject tactics, or any combo of the above.

I seriously doubt any fans would want some unknown name here from Rangers if he'd done the same as Gerrard. Surely its because he is Gerrard and not what he has done. People that want him more or less say so. None say because of his great achievements as manager or his great football he is playing. If Mike Flynn went to Rangers and did what Gerrard has then I doubt people would be so excited about him!

I agree with that and I think it is partly driven by the relative success of Lampard, but also because he's just an extremely popular English player. Rooney would be more devisive in the same circumstances.

 

Sorry to appear to be teaming up with @Davefevs as I promise I'm not, but couldn't resist keeping this interesting exchange going.  Comments above...

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10 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Jokanovic my number 1

I'm not sure we've got enough to tempt him, he said he had options to return to English football last summer but didn't fancy them, if you're assuming he's not talking prem then the summer appointments last year were

  • Luton - too small
  • QPR - I'd imagine were too small to try for him
  • Swansea - Bigger than us
  • Middlesbrough - Bigger than us (as a club)
  • Birmingham - Rumoured to be after him now, would be strange to try again so soon if he turned them down last summer and now in a worse financial position
  • WBA - Bilic seemed first choice

Took about a month for both Swansea/Middlesbrough to appoint their new managers so I'm betting on it being one of them who approached Slav, if one of them couldn't tempt him I don't think we'd tempt him, add the fact he'd be expensive to appoint personal wages and probable demands in the market. While he's said he wants to return to England he's not desperate and begging for jobs he's waiting out for the right job on a very nice salary.

Personal opinion of course.

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14 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Fair enough. I just don't know what we will get from Gerrard. Nothing so far has impressed me too much at Rangers.

As far as ability as a head coach/manager I would rather someone who has shown to be something special at doing that job.

I think LJ got most giving 100%, as did Holden last 2 games. The likes of Weimann, O'Dowda, Hunt, Fam Wells, Smith, Paterson have always given their all, that's the type of players they are. It's a great bunch for anyone who can get a good game plan to get the best out of them.

So I don't think Gerrard would get more out of them in effort. Unless his instructions/tactics are better which would then get more reward from the effort they put in.

But I just don't know if he is that great a good head coach. He might be, but then anyone could be a great head coach who has not proven themselves yet. It's a big gamble.

I don't really want Hughton either to be honest! But at least its a safer option.

Jon. I think you write-off the impact a person and their ‘name’ can have. 
I don’t know what job you do, so let’s assume. 
1) You’re a 14 year old lad playing for the school team. Your teacher tells you Michael Appleton is coming to watch you play tonight. You may raise your game to impress. Now your teacher tells you Gerrard is coming to watch. You probably raise your game a few more percentiles. 
2) You’re an author. You’re writing a short story for your brother. You’re obviously gonna make it as good a story as you can. Now you’re writing a story that’s gonna be proof-read by Stephen King. You’re gonna make this the best story you can. 
3) You work in an office. Sales Dept. You sell tv’s. You’re told the boss is going to listen in on your calls today. You’re gonna make sure you’re on your game. Then you’re told that the owner, Dragons Den’s Peter Jones, is going to be listening in on your calls. You’re gonna be on the absolute top of your game. 
4) You’re a heart surgeon. You have a 60 year old chap on your table. You’re gonna do everything in your power to keep this lad alive. Now, you have the Queen in for surgery. Your care and attention, whilst already at impeccable levels, will be heightened even further. 
5) You work on the tills at Aldi. You are pleasant to all of your customers, providing a high value service. Your hero (I don’t know who that is, but let’s guess at Joe Pasquale), walks up to your till. Your p’s and q’s are going to be perfect. The service you provide will be first class. 

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4 minutes ago, Harry said:

Jon. I think you write-off the impact a person and their ‘name’ can have. 
I don’t know what job you do, so let’s assume. 
1) You’re a 14 year old lad playing for the school team. Your teacher tells you Michael Appleton is coming to watch you play tonight. You may raise your game to impress. Now your teacher tells you Gerrard is coming to watch. You probably raise your game a few more percentiles. 
2) You’re an author. You’re writing a short story for your brother. You’re obviously gonna make it as good a story as you can. Now you’re writing a story that’s gonna be proof-read by Stephen King. You’re gonna make this the best story you can. 
3) You work in an office. Sales Dept. You sell tv’s. You’re told the boss is going to listen in on your calls today. You’re gonna make sure you’re on your game. Then you’re told that the owner, Dragons Den’s Peter Jones, is going to be listening in on your calls. You’re gonna be on the absolute top of your game. 
4) You’re a heart surgeon. You have a 60 year old chap on your table. You’re gonna do everything in your power to keep this lad alive. Now, you have the Queen in for surgery. Your care and attention, whilst already at impeccable levels, will be heightened even further. 
5) You work on the tills at Aldi. You are pleasant to all of your customers, providing a high value service. Your hero (I don’t know who that is, but let’s guess at Joe Pasquale), walks up to your till. Your I’d and q’s are going to be perfect. The service you provide will be first class. 

Joe pasquale?‍♂️?‍♂️?‍♂️?‍♂️

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4 minutes ago, Harry said:

Jon. I think you write-off the impact a person and their ‘name’ can have. 

In addition its not just in performance but transfers as well, in our pursuit of Marriott (if we really were chasing him) Marriott said in an interview he was desperate to join Derby because Lampard had taken over and he was a Chelsea fan growing up while Lampard was playing. Possible we'd attract the attention of far more players with Gerrard in charge then another manager even a Hughton or a Jokanovic.

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5 minutes ago, Harry said:

Jon. I think you write-off the impact a person and their ‘name’ can have. 
I don’t know what job you do, so let’s assume. 
1) You’re a 14 year old lad playing for the school team. Your teacher tells you Michael Appleton is coming to watch you play tonight. You may raise your game to impress. Now your teacher tells you Gerrard is coming to watch. You probably raise your game a few more percentiles. 
2) You’re an author. You’re writing a short story for your brother. You’re obviously gonna make it as good a story as you can. Now you’re writing a story that’s gonna be proof-read by Stephen King. You’re gonna make this the best story you can. 
3) You work in an office. Sales Dept. You sell tv’s. You’re told the boss is going to listen in on your calls today. You’re gonna make sure you’re on your game. Then you’re told that the owner, Dragons Den’s Peter Jones, is going to be listening in on your calls. You’re gonna be on the absolute top of your game. 
4) You’re a heart surgeon. You have a 60 year old chap on your table. You’re gonna do everything in your power to keep this lad alive. Now, you have the Queen in for surgery. Your care and attention, whilst already at impeccable levels, will be heightened even further. 
5) You work on the tills at Aldi. You are pleasant to all of your customers, providing a high value service. Your hero (I don’t know who that is, but let’s guess at Joe Pasquale), walks up to your till. Your p’s and q’s are going to be perfect. The service you provide will be first class. 

I think most people will get what you mean after the first line Harry, great story though.

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8 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

I'm not sure we've got enough to tempt him, he said he had options to return to English football last summer but didn't fancy them, if you're assuming he's not talking prem then the summer appointments last year were

  • Luton - too small
  • QPR - I'd imagine were too small to try for him
  • Swansea - Bigger than us
  • Middlesbrough - Bigger than us (as a club)
  • Birmingham - Rumoured to be after him now, would be strange to try again so soon if he turned them down last summer and now in a worse financial position
  • WBA - Bilic seemed first choice

Took about a month for both Swansea/Middlesbrough to appoint their new managers so I'm betting on it being one of them who approached Slav, if one of them couldn't tempt him I don't think we'd tempt him, add the fact he'd be expensive to appoint personal wages and probable demands in the market. While he's said he wants to return to England he's not desperate and begging for jobs he's waiting out for the right job on a very nice salary.

Personal opinion of course.

It was reported that he turned West Brom down because they didn't offer him enough money.

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1 minute ago, chinapig said:

It was reported that he turned West Brom down because they didn't offer him enough money.

Fair enough, makes the point though if West Brom can't afford him with parachute payments and the like I highly doubt we're affording him. If he took a champ job I'd expect him holding out for a relegated club, Villa this summer perhaps.

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Just now, Lrrr said:

Fair enough, makes the point though if West Brom can't afford him with parachute payments and the like I highly doubt we're affording him. If he took a champ job I'd expect him holding out for a relegated club, Villa this summer perhaps.

Agreed, I would expect him to turn us down. Unless the money and the job offers have run out.

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19 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Fair enough. I just don't know what we will get from Gerrard. Nothing so far has impressed me too much at Rangers.

As far as ability as a head coach/manager I would rather someone who has shown to be something special at doing that job.

I think LJ got most giving 100%, as did Holden last 2 games. The likes of Weimann, O'Dowda, Hunt, Fam Wells, Smith, Paterson have always given their all, that's the type of players they are. It's a great bunch for anyone who can get a good game plan to get the best out of them.

So I don't think Gerrard would get more out of them in effort. Unless his instructions/tactics are better which would then get more reward from the effort they put in.

But I just don't know if he is that great a good head coach. He might be, but then anyone could be a great head coach who has not proven themselves yet. It's a big gamble.

I don't really want Hughton either to be honest! But at least its a safer option.

The only way to really test up and coming managers - Gerrard, Lowe, Flynn - is if/when they get the opportunity. I suppose the advantage of all three is their winning mentality. Lowe and Flynn should have a winners swagger atm, whilst Gerrard had it as an elite level player. 

We should have a better idea of what to expect from Hughton and Jokanovic because we can use their past performances. I'd prefer either of them for that exact reason.

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4 minutes ago, mozo said:

The only way to really test up and coming managers - Gerrard, Lowe, Flynn - is if/when they get the opportunity. I suppose the advantage of all three is their winning mentality. Lowe and Flynn should have a winners swagger atm, whilst Gerrard had it as an elite level player. 

We should have a better idea of what to expect from Hughton and Jokanovic because we can use their past performances. I'd prefer either of them for that exact reason.

Why would Flynn have a winners swagger about him ?

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4 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Maybe we can't get him. If not then I like what Robins did at Coventry. Some great football and overachieved with a very young squad.

I'm not sure exactly what Gabrielle Heinze has done so far in management, but someone suggested him as someone who has played under Bielsa and someone who has done well so far in management and wants to manage in this country.

Whether him from abroad or someone else City can find that plays Bielsa type football would excite me.

Basically someone who shows they can do well playing good football. And ideally someone who will give our young best players a chance.

For me playing good passing football out the back means that Taylor Moore, Walsh and maybe Morrell would be given a go by any manager who has that passing philosophy. Such a manager suits these players.

If we bring in someone who has a bit more of a pragmatic approach then it might be some of those types won't fit in with that.

Hi jon usally enjoy your posts but cant help but think your over analysing steven gerrards posible apontment the mere fact that gerrard has been linked to our football club is astonishing just sit back bud buckle up and enjoy the ride STEVEN GERRARD!!!! WOW

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32 minutes ago, Harry said:


5) You work on the tills at Aldi. You are pleasant to all of your customers, providing a high value service. Your hero (I don’t know who that is, but let’s guess at Joe Pasquale), walks up to your till. Your p’s and q’s are going to be perfect. The service you provide will be first class. You will tell him to **** *** when he starts with "I've got a song that'll get on your nerves...."

 

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