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Steven Gerrard


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12 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I haven’t scrolled thru this thread but has anyone compared Gerard to Lampard? Both fantastic players with FL who managed Derby and is now the main man at Chelsea.
 

 

FL didn’t achieve that much at Derby, and what he did was with the benefit of some beneficial loans from Chelski. Though he didn’t have long of course.

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37 minutes ago, Harry said:

Jon. I think you write-off the impact a person and their ‘name’ can have. 
I don’t know what job you do, so let’s assume. 
1) You’re a 14 year old lad playing for the school team. Your teacher tells you Michael Appleton is coming to watch you play tonight. You may raise your game to impress. Now your teacher tells you Gerrard is coming to watch. You probably raise your game a few more percentiles. 
2) You’re an author. You’re writing a short story for your brother. You’re obviously gonna make it as good a story as you can. Now you’re writing a story that’s gonna be proof-read by Stephen King. You’re gonna make this the best story you can. 
3) You work in an office. Sales Dept. You sell tv’s. You’re told the boss is going to listen in on your calls today. You’re gonna make sure you’re on your game. Then you’re told that the owner, Dragons Den’s Peter Jones, is going to be listening in on your calls. You’re gonna be on the absolute top of your game. 
4) You’re a heart surgeon. You have a 60 year old chap on your table. You’re gonna do everything in your power to keep this lad alive. Now, you have the Queen in for surgery. Your care and attention, whilst already at impeccable levels, will be heightened even further. 
5) You work on the tills at Aldi. You are pleasant to all of your customers, providing a high value service. Your hero (I don’t know who that is, but let’s guess at Joe Pasquale), walks up to your till. Your p’s and q’s are going to be perfect. The service you provide will be first class. 

There can’t be many who look up to Joe Pasquale!

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One thing that Gerrard had as a player was the ability to inspire the team and lead by example.

If he can bring that to coaching and team management then that would be a huge plus, as it seemed that for all his technical ability, drones and power point presentations, LJ did not seem able to inspire or motivate the players enough and often enough. I think most agree that we have a good squad of players and it might just be that extra bit of inspiration and motivation is all they need - how many of todays players grew up seeing Gerrard in his prime and aspired to be like him?

The only down side is the Glenn Hoddle syndrome - being frustrated when your players aren't capable of doing what you can do/used to do.

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18 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

But for any that are thinking wow this is Steven Gerrard, that feeling soon won't last. Unless he is a really inspiring coach with great tactics like Bielsa etc.

he might be “wow” though Jon.  He might be inspiring, he might have great tactics.  You want to push your opinion / view based on future failure scenarios that he’s not up to the job, just because he’s a name.  It’s possible to be both a name and a good manager.

They will soon only judge him on how good a manager he is. If he is no better than LJ, or worse, then they will soon want someone else in won't they?

yep, that is true.  But, Recruitment in football has no guarantees.

 

 

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23 minutes ago, glen humphries said:

Why would Flynn have a winners swagger about him ?

Dresses to the right but buys trousers cut to the left?

3 minutes ago, mozo said:

➕

Apparently I just make stuff up!

So you just come on here to fit in with the crowd?  :)

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33 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

But for any that are thinking wow this is Steven Gerrard, that feeling soon won't last. Unless he is a really inspiring coach with great tactics like Bielsa etc. They will soon only judge him on how good a manager he is. If he is no better than LJ, or worse, then they will soon want someone else in won't they?

 

Another factor to consider is the network he’ll have and the loans available to us. The SPL is what it is, everyone knows outside of the big 2 it’s very average. We’re possibly in the best league we can be in to utilise his network and get loans. If we were in the prem for example the dynamic is different.

Gerrard is one of the best english players we’ve ever produced - I think you underplay how significant a boost that’ll be to these players. They’re the right age to have grown up watching him too.

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2 minutes ago, downendcity said:

One thing that Gerrard had as a player was the ability to inspire the team and lead by example.

If he can bring that to coaching and team management then that would be a huge plus, as it seemed that for all his technical ability, drones and power point presentations, LJ did not seem able to inspire or motivate the players enough and often enough. I think most agree that we have a good squad of players and it might just be that extra bit of inspiration and motivation is all they need - how many of todays players grew up seeing Gerrard in his prime and aspired to be like him?

The only down side is the Glenn Hoddle syndrome - being frustrated when your players aren't capable of doing what you can do/used to do.

I started to type two examples just now....Glenn Hoddle.  This was John Moncur, a good technical player being schooled by Hoddle at Swindon.

The other was Hateley at Hull (then in the bottom league), who couldn’t get his head around players not being able to do the basics.

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37 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

But for any that are thinking wow this is Steven Gerrard, that feeling soon won't last. Unless he is a really inspiring coach with great tactics like Bielsa etc. They will soon only judge him on how good a manager he is. If he is no better than LJ, or worse, then they will soon want someone else in won't they?

 

Surely this applies to anyone rather than just someone like Gerrard being a 'name', if Jokanovic/Hughton etc with a great rep came in and hypothetically came across as no better than LJ for whatever reason the same situation would play out.

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Just now, JonDolman said:

Cheers for enjoying previous posts. I just don't get excited by any high ex player being our manager. Unless its someone like Pep of course!

Pep?  Who got the Barcelona B job based on his playing credentials? ???

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15 minutes ago, Alan Dicks said:

I’ve been reading through comments on the Rangers forums, most of their fans don’t rate him and would welcome Gerrard moving here.

For me its CH all day long

With you on CH but if you took too much notice of fans forums don't think  I'd want him + Johnstone would never work again.

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27 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I agree he might be great Dave. It could be that he is an amazing manager, but that's the same with any young manager too.

I'm not saying he definitely won't be the right man. But all we can do is guess who is the right man just like Lansdown has to. And for me there isn't anything that shows he is a great head coach so far.

There's another thing that worries me about Gerrard. He bought a lot of players in at Rangers. I imagine he would want to bring in a number of players, and I don't think we need them. I'm only guessing on that too of course, but its what I imagine he would do and if Lansdown brings him in then he'd probably have to agree to some of Gerrard's demands with transfers.

Then there's the paying off Rangers, and probably high wages.

It seems like a big gamble in many ways imo.

So you now don’t like Gerrard because he brought in a lot of players. 
Hughton signed about 13 in his first window at Birmingham. Slaviša signed 14 in his first window at Fulham. Any manager we appoint will want to bring in some players. 
I think you’re now looking for any reason to dislike SG as an appointment. 

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1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

Maybe we can't get him. If not then I like what Robins did at Coventry. Some great football and overachieved with a very young squad.

I'm not sure exactly what Gabrielle Heinze has done so far in management, but someone suggested him as someone who has played under Bielsa and someone who has done well so far in management and wants to manage in this country.

Whether him from abroad or someone else City can find that plays Bielsa type football would excite me.

Basically someone who shows they can do well playing good football. And ideally someone who will give our young best players a chance.

For me playing good passing football out the back means that Taylor Moore, Walsh and maybe Morrell would be given a go by any manager who has that passing philosophy. Such a manager suits these players.

If we bring in someone who has a bit more of a pragmatic approach then it might be some of those types won't fit in with that.

So you would be happy with Gabrielle Heinze who you admitted you’ve no real knowledge of. Because he’s been managed by Bielsa. 
But Steven Gerrard who has been managed and groomed by Jurgen Klopp is inexperienced and not done much in SPL. He’s still in charge of Rangers so it’s not like they are sacking him and he’s failed. They are still in (clinging on at the moment) the last 16 of the Europa league. Hampered by financial caps on purchases and wages. 
But Heinze you would be ok with. 

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On 12/07/2020 at 10:35, Super said:

Would it worry people that we would just be a stepping stone for him. Fairly obvious if he does well he will take over from Klopp when his contract runs out. Part of me wants him just to shut up those arrogant Rangers fans laughing at us!

Or perhaps, just perhaps, if SG were to be appointed manager, he just might be able to arrange a pre-season friendly with....The Gers.

I seem to recall there was a similar, well-supported and appreciated pre-season friendly a few years ago. 

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1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

I agree he might be great Dave. It could be that he is an amazing manager, but that's the same with any young manager too.

I'm not saying he definitely won't be the right man. But all we can do is guess who is the right man just like Lansdown has to. And for me there isn't anything that shows he is a great head coach so far.

There's another thing that worries me about Gerrard. He bought a lot of players in at Rangers. I imagine he would want to bring in a number of players, and I don't think we need them. I'm only guessing on that too of course, but its what I imagine he would do and if Lansdown brings him in then he'd probably have to agree to some of Gerrard's demands with transfers.

Then there's the paying off Rangers, and probably high wages.

It seems like a big gamble in many ways imo.

Jon - we get you don’t think he’s what we are after.  You don’t have to keep trying to convince us with Mystic Meg negatives. ???

Out of interest, what was the squad depth when he arrived?  Was it excessive incomings really?  Here’s both year’s transfers (exc loans)

 

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2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

For me playing good passing football out the back means that Taylor Moore, Walsh and maybe Morrell would be given a go by any manager who has that passing philosophy

Straight up I dont think any incoming manager will look at these 3 players and play them with regular minutes.  Untried and untested at this level, I don't even think they have played together in any championship games.  We already have players in our squad that fulfill those roles more than adequately.  I am all for bring them on, but I dont think its any managers new criteria that those players should start.

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7 minutes ago, WayOutWest said:

Straight up I dont think any incoming manager will look at these 3 players and play them with regular minutes.  Untried and untested at this level, I don't even think they have played together in any championship games.  We already have players in our squad that fulfill those roles more than adequately.  I am all for bring them on, but I dont think its any managers new criteria that those players should start.

Agree....Up to every player to show what they can do (within reason). 

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Asides from not particularly being that fond of Gerrard as a player, I do not really like the idea of him being here and just using us a stepping stone if you to land a bigger job as it were.  Has done decent enough with Rangers I suppose, but just don't think he is the right guy for us.  Will support him of course to the fullest of appointed, just tbh hope we go in another direction; just seems like a somewhat high stakes thing to do at this time.

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8 minutes ago, Yank said:

Asides from not particularly being that fond of Gerrard as a player, I do not really like the idea of him being here and just using us a stepping stone if you to land a bigger job as it were.  Has done decent enough with Rangers I suppose, but just don't think he is the right guy for us.  Will support him of course to the fullest of appointed, just tbh hope we go in another direction; just seems like a somewhat high stakes thing to do at this time.

I'm not sure where this stepping stone thing comes from. I don't see why he'd be any less loyal than any other manager??

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6 minutes ago, Yank said:

Asides from not particularly being that fond of Gerrard as a player, I do not really like the idea of him being here and just using us a stepping stone if you to land a bigger job as it were.  Has done decent enough with Rangers I suppose, but just don't think he is the right guy for us.  Will support him of course to the fullest of appointed, just tbh hope we go in another direction; just seems like a somewhat high stakes thing to do at this time.

So you’d rather a manager comes in and is average, not achieving anything, just so’s he can’t be poached by a bigger club?

Anyone that comes in and achieves something with us will be off to a bigger club. It’s a stepping stone for anyone that arrives - players, managers, staff, all of them. 

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2 minutes ago, Harry said:

So you’d rather a manager comes in and is average, not achieving anything, just so’s he can’t be poached by a bigger club?

Anyone that comes in and achieves something with us will be off to a bigger club. It’s a stepping stone for anyone that arrives - players, managers, staff, all of them. 

Fair enough, I am just really more in the line of thinking that he is not what we really need right now.

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3 minutes ago, Yank said:

Fair enough, I am just really more in the line of thinking that he is not what we really need right now.

That’s a much fairer argument. 
Good on ya sir. ?

I honestly don’t mind that some people don’t fancy SG as our boss. That’s fine. It’s when reasons are invented to make a case against that it gets a bit silly. 

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30 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

No not exactly.

If he's shown to be a great coach and play Bielsa type football then yes.

There's probably some great foreign based options. Not sure which ones. That's an example that may or may not be the right one but haven't looked into how he has done and how his team played etc.

I would list all those great foreign managers but I unfortunately don't watch as much foreign football as I used to.

There will be lots of foreign managers who would be excellent for us, it’s finding them and being on same page is the issue. So majority are will be a gamble, as will anyone else. 
My first choice would be like yours Jokanović, however I don’t think we are on his radar. Hughton I would support but from limited times I’ve seen his team play reminds me of SoD. Gerrard to me could bring media coverage and maybe even we will be main games on the highlights instead of last game. He’s got to prove to Liverpool he is the next manager so will be wanting to be a success. Even he knows it won’t be like Lampard as I can’t see them parting with Klopp soon. 
All managers start of as a novice as did Pep and Mourinho. 

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1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

I think they saw something special in Pep as a manager as he took over Barcelona B but was planned for him to take over the main Barcelona side at the end of that season which he did

It was between Pep and Jose (was at Inter at the time) for the Barca job, Barca chose Pep because of his work with Barca B, was in the 'take the ball, pass the ball' show Sky did.

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