Steven Gerrard

[Taz]

2 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

I don't know how many times it has to be said that prices on this sort of thing depend on where the money is being placed and very little else.  There will obviously be some exceptions in that Hughton is a realistic contender, whereas Sir Alex Ferguson isn't for example.  Which is why SAF would be 5000/1....  Money being placed on him would bring him into 500/1, but that is all, whereas contenders deemed possible will see their prices fluctuate wildly as money is thrown about.  As we've seen.  Prices on the whole are merely an indication of who people think might be appointed, followed by bookies mitigating their losses should that be the case.

5000/1 you say!? 

 

Tempting 

[Natchfever]

30 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

I see the resident bedwetters are out in force today.

It's a wonder how some of you manage to make it through each day without a full scale meltdown.

Not much moisture in evidence to be fair today mate unless i've missed a meltdown or two 

[Bat Fastard]

1 minute ago, billywedlock said:

At least we are going through a recruitment process, last time it did not exist it was already pre  arranged and a charade. We have no idea who has applied or expressed an interest . Might just be someone who is not even being discussed has come up and will surprise us. The betting is no guide. 

In fact Gary Johnson has probably been contacted and asked to serve for a couple of years whilst Lee is in retreat and undergoing reconstruction. You heard it here first!!

[Rudolf Hucker]

1 hour ago, phil_clevedon said:

Is it possible we could be waiting till the end of the PL season, Sunday week, as there may be a couple of other contenders at that stage - Dyche and Howe for example?

The end of the PL season will, I believe, need to be reached before David Moyes is revealed as our new manager. Anyone got Jim White's mobile number? I need to let him know.

[Davefevs]

42 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

I don't think it will happen but one difference (amongst many) between Johnson and Gerrard is the quality of coaches worked under as players and the lessons learned from those experiences.

"While it was under Gérard Houllier that Gerrard made his senior debut, in Rafa Benítez, Roy Hodgson, Kenny Dalglish and Brendan Rodgers he also worked with several highly respected managers at Liverpool, and he was also selected for England by Kevin Keegan, Sven-Göran Eriksson, Steve McClaren, Fabio Capello and Hodgson."

Nuff said...

Exactly the point I made yesterday.  It might mean nothing, but it might mean everything.

You often hear managers saying they tried to take the best bits of each manager they worked under.  Well, Gerrard has worked under many.

Gerrard was a captain too, doesn’t always translate, but took to being a leader.

I don’t mean to be derogatory but LJ worked under his dad.

[And Its Smith]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Exactly the point I made yesterday.  It might mean nothing, but it might mean everything.

You often hear managers saying they tried to take the best bits of each manager they worked under.  Well, Gerrard has worked under many.

Gerrard was a captain too, doesn’t always translate, but took to being a leader.

I don’t mean to be derogatory but LJ worked under his dad.

Let’s appoint one of Sol Campbell, Stuart Pearce, Tony Adams or Ashley Cole then.  All worked under top managers.  Literally means nothing.

Klopp and Mourinho didn’t.  

[pongo88]

21 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

I don't know how many times it has to be said that prices on this sort of thing depend on where the money is being placed and very little else.  There will obviously be some exceptions in that Hughton is a realistic contender, whereas Sir Alex Ferguson isn't for example.  Which is why SAF would be 5000/1....  Money being placed on him would bring him into 500/1, but that is all, whereas contenders deemed possible will see their prices fluctuate wildly as money is thrown about.  As we've seen.  Prices on the whole are merely an indication of who people think might be appointed, followed by bookies mitigating their losses should that be the case.

If the odds for Alex Ferguson come down to 500/1 I’m going to place a bet. Remember the 1981 third ashes test match when, at one point, bookies were offering 500/1 for England win. Thanks to Ian Botham and Bob Willis England won. 

[Lrrr]

3 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Klopp and Mourinho didn’t.

Came in as a translator for Bobby Robson.... So yes he did work under a top manager

[And Its Smith]

Just now, Lrrr said:

Came in as a translator for Bobby Robson.... So yes he did work under a top manager

Fair enough. Forgot about that.  

Point still stands that working under a top manager means nothing. Cannot see a positive correlation at all. 

[red panda]

18 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

At least we are going through a recruitment process, last time it did not exist it was already pre  arranged and a charade. We have no idea who has applied or expressed an interest . Might just be someone who is not even being discussed has come up and will surprise us. The betting is no guide. 

Just today, the Post reports that Ashton had never met Johnson before his interview, and that part of the reason he got the job was that he wowed first Lansdown and then Ashton during the interview.  So perhaps (a) there was a recruitment process, (b) it wasn't pre-arranged, and (c) it wasn't a charade.

Any why would they tell us who had applied or express an interest?  That would be unfair on all of the unsuccessful applicants.

[Tinmans Love Child]

10 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Let’s appoint one of Sol Campbell, Stuart Pearce, Tony Adams or Ashley Cole then.  All worked under top managers.  Literally means nothing.

Klopp and Mourinho didn’t.  

Or Wenger, he played about 60 games in big standard football leagues

[TedsHeadIs Red]

I expect SL and MA are wishing that City would just lose tomorrow (or whatever eventuality is required) so that it is absolutely certain that we are staying in the Championship (mathematically certain) and then they can get on and appoint the right man to get us up rather than someone to keep us up. Certain applicants may have said "Well, if you get promotion this year give me a call but until then..."

[Harry]

1 hour ago, maxjak said:

If true........Hallelujah!  We don't need an apprentice manager at the moment, we need someone experienced and with a proven track record

With that sort of attitude young sir, I’ll have you know that Porto wouldn’t have employed Mourinho, Monaco wouldn’t have appointed Wenger, St Mirren wouldn’t have taken Ferguson, Ipswich wouldn’t have employed Bobby Robson, Dortmund wouldn’t hire Klopp. 

[Harry]

15 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Let’s appoint one of Sol Campbell, Stuart Pearce, Tony Adams or Ashley Cole then.  All worked under top managers.  Literally means nothing.

Klopp and Mourinho didn’t.  

The 4 you mention are not comparable. Just because they were high profile footballer, doesn’t make them capable of being successful managers. 
Gerrard has vastly different leadership and communication skills to those above, as well as having earned a more ‘respectful’ characterisation within the game. 
 

All this comparison between good player/bad manager or bad player/good manager is nonsense. 
There are plenty of good players who have also become good managers. 

[Lrrr]

Just now, And Its Smith said:

Fair enough. Forgot about that.  

Point still stands that working under a top manager means nothing. Cannot see a positive correlation at all. 

For a coaching perspective perhaps but from a contacts perspective for recruitment it helps massively, picture Gerrard phoning up someone to ask about loaning a player vs Johnson, Gerrard has working relationships with Klopp, Rodgers, Benitez (assume he'll come back to England), Hodgson, Lampard as far as having played together for a long time, Mourinho tried to buy him 3 times as a player, even if they don't have a working relationship with him they'd probably be more willing to entertain a phone call. 

Not saying that Gerrard would be the best candidate or anything but I don't think you can dismiss him out of hand either, the article on him posted on here was very interesting and surrounds himself with good staff members that suit his style of management.

[And Its Smith]

2 minutes ago, Harry said:

The 4 you mention are not comparable. Just because they were high profile footballer, doesn’t make them capable of being successful managers. 
Gerrard has vastly different leadership and communication skills to those above, as well as having earned a more ‘respectful’ characterisation within the game. 
 

All this comparison between good player/bad manager or bad player/good manager is nonsense. 
There are plenty of good players who have also become good managers. 

There is zero positive correlation on any of it.  Impossible for us to know which players will make good managers  

[DC10]

2 minutes ago, Harry said:

With that sort of attitude young sir, I’ll have you know that Porto wouldn’t have employed Mourinho, Monaco wouldn’t have appointed Wenger, St Mirren wouldn’t have taken Ferguson, Ipswich wouldn’t have employed Bobby Robson, Dortmund wouldn’t hire Klopp. 

Couldn’t agree more!! Football changes so quickly that a “proven track record” doesn’t always turn out as well as expected.
The Championship is a different animal now, we’re coming up against Bielsa’s, Bilic’s & Cocu’s now not Dave Jones, Ian Holloway, Darren Ferguson like when Hughton first got promotion. I’m not saying SG is the answer I just don’t know if CH’s “record” is as much of an advantage as it seems. 

 

[Harry]

33 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Let’s appoint one of Sol Campbell, Stuart Pearce, Tony Adams or Ashley Cole then.  All worked under top managers.  Literally means nothing.

Klopp and Mourinho didn’t.  

 

14 minutes ago, Harry said:

The 4 you mention are not comparable. Just because they were high profile footballer, doesn’t make them capable of being successful managers. 
Gerrard has vastly different leadership and communication skills to those above, as well as having earned a more ‘respectful’ characterisation within the game. 
 

All this comparison between good player/bad manager or bad player/good manager is nonsense. 
There are plenty of good players who have also become good managers. 

 

10 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

There is zero positive correlation on any of it.  Impossible for us to know which players will make good managers  

Well you started it!!

[rangers_fan]

2 hours ago, downendcity said:

...but it's delusion and unfounded speculation that keeps the forum alive.

 

It is what keeps all forums alive 

I have read some crazy rumours on our forums over the years.

At one point we were favourites to sign Van Persie a few seasons back.

[Harry]

1 minute ago, DC10 said:

Couldn’t agree more!! Football changes so quickly that a “proven track record” doesn’t always turn out as well as expected.
The Championship is a different animal now, we’re coming up against Bielsa’s, Bilic’s & Cocu’s now not Dave Jones, Ian Holloway, Darren Ferguson like when Hughton first got promotion. I’m not saying SG is the answer I just don’t know if CH’s “record” is as much of an advantage as it seems. 

 

Spot on. 
It’s entirely agreeable, for every single one of us, to look at Hughton and say “yep, he’s the most sensible option”. 
 

But as I mentioned in one of these threads the other day, what if he’s past his peak. What if we’re gonna get him on his down-slide. Most managers seem to have a learning phase, a purple patch, and then a decline (at some point they are labelled a “dinosaur”, not necessarily because of the style of football but more because the game moves on apace). 
 

He’s absolutely the most sensible option. But.......

[Natchfever]

46 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Let’s appoint one of Sol Campbell, Stuart Pearce, Tony Adams or Ashley Cole then.  All worked under top managers.  Literally means nothing.

Klopp and Mourinho didn’t.  

You are right, there is no direct link between working under a top coach and inheriting their skill set. Fact is surely though, that you have a better chance of becoming a good coach yourself if you work on a daily basis with the best and absorb how they approach games, and probably more importantly, how they deal with the match itself.

For every Sol Campbell (maybe he's better than some think) Stuart Pearce, Paul Ince Roy Keane etc you get a top coach who was a top player himself.

Academic, as I don't think Gerrard would ever even think of coming here and wouldn't fancy the gamble personally, but in terms of tuition, he has had some of the best available and has given himself a chance of becoming a top class coach.

[Lrrr]

For all the discussion of not going for a former player with 'some' experience as a manager but not necessarily overly successful, how would people's opinions be on appointing a Barcelona 'B' manager who'd never managed a first team before..... While Pep has inherited/bought great teams there's no question that he's also an exceptional coach. Dechamps went straight to managing Monaco, Ancelotti took over a Serie B team finishing mid table and after one season took over at Parma the previous season they finished 4th or 5th in Serie A. Zidane had only managed Real's second side before getting the main job.

Point being even at the highest level of management there are plenty of examples of players who didn't work their way to the top as such by getting a lot of experience elsewhere first.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, And Its Smith said:

Let’s appoint one of Sol Campbell, Stuart Pearce, Tony Adams or Ashley Cole then.  All worked under top managers.  Literally means nothing.

Klopp and Mourinho didn’t.  

But you’re making out that Gerrard is a newbie manager.  He’s had 2 years with Rangers where he’s building his skills.

Nobody is saying there’s a direct correlation, but if you have an aptitude to learn, then who better to learn from.  That’s the golden opportunity he’s been given.  We’ve not got a clear view as to whether he’s taken that onboard or not.  But he certainly hasn’t failed at Rangers like Adams did in several jobs after brief early success at Wycombe.  

I wrote some time ago that all the lesser players that become good / top class managers (Klopp, Mourinho, Wenger, etc), all had one thing in common....they worked for managers both as players and coaches who had huge footballing principles and methodologies, in some cases were ahead of their time, often revolutionary in their way of playing..

Mourinho was a lower league pro, who of course initially went to Barca as interpreter, but then coach under Robson, followed by Van Gaal.  Pretty short managerial career before getting the Porto gig and the rest is history.

Wenger, studied under Jean-Marc Gillou a French World Cup player, and then under Michel Platini’s father as Nancy, before becoming manager of them.

Klopp, learned under Eric Rotemuller, a widely acclaimed coach who managed Cologne, and assistant manager of the German National side.

Nobody is guaranteeing Gerrard will be a success, just giving plausible reasons why he might be in the frame.

As a forum, we are massively quick to dismiss potential players and now managers. We just need to keep a more open mind, by all means have an opinion, but don’t expect everyone to be mutually agreed either.

[BS4 on Tour...]

4 hours ago, downendcity said:

Sl was criticised for not going through a proper recruitment process when appointing LJ. i.e. not allowing sufficient time for other applicants to come forward, short list and interview.

Now he is being criticised for not doing exactly what he was criticised for doing with LJ.

We did the same with Cotts didn’t we? It was just him in the frame - no one else was considered? 

[Banjo Island]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

But you’re making out that Gerrard is a newbie manager.  He’s had 2 years with Rangers where he’s building his skills.

Nobody is saying there’s a direct correlation, but if you have an aptitude to learn, then who better to learn from.  That’s the golden opportunity he’s been given.  We’ve not got a clear view as to whether he’s taken that onboard or not.  But he certainly hasn’t failed at Rangers like Adams did in several jobs after brief early success at Wycombe.  

I wrote some time ago that all the lesser players that become good / top class managers (Klopp, Mourinho, Wenger, etc), all had one thing in common....they worked for managers both as players and coaches who had huge footballing principles and methodologies, in some cases were ahead of their time, often revolutionary in their way of playing..

Mourinho was a lower league pro, who of course initially went to Barca as interpreter, but then coach under Robson, followed by Van Gaal.  Pretty short managerial career before getting the Porto gig and the rest is history.

Wenger, studied under Jean-Marc Gillou a French World Cup player, and then under Michel Platini’s father as Nancy, before becoming manager of them.

Klopp, learned under Eric Rotemuller, a widely acclaimed coach who managed Cologne, and assistant manager of the German National side.

Nobody is guaranteeing Gerrard will be a success, just giving plausible reasons why he might be in the frame.

As a forum, we are massively quick to dismiss potential players and now managers. We just need to keep a more open mind, by all means have an opinion, but don’t expect everyone to be mutually agreed either.

Ran out of likes dave exactly this it beggars believe theres some on here that cant or wont see it

[And Its Smith]

27 minutes ago, Banjo Island said:

Ran out of likes dave exactly this it beggars believe theres some on here that cant or wont see it

What can some people not see ?  

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

What can some people not see ?  

That someone can possibly have a different view and be able to describe their reason so that most people can see where they are coming from....even if they don’t necessarily agree.

[Lez]

I can't see Steven Gerrard giving up Rangers for Bristol city.....in fact I cant see him coming to the champ bar a pull from a yoyo side eg Fulham west Brom villa.

Lampard did his training at derby and went prem.....Gerrard doing his at rangers and will he holding out for a prem job next.

[And Its Smith]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That someone can possibly have a different view and be able to describe their reason so that most people can see where they are coming from....even if they don’t necessarily agree.

Not sure who cannot see that.  Would be a weird world if we all agreed.  People don’t have to agree with others however eloquently their point is written. 

 

[Natchfever]

3 minutes ago, Lez said:

I can't see Steven Gerrard giving up Rangers for Bristol city.....in fact I cant see him coming to the champ bar a pull from a yoyo side eg Fulham west Brom villa.

Lampard did his training at derby and went prem.....Gerrard doing his at rangers and will he holding out for a prem job next.

Reckon you're spot on.

Gerard doesn't need to take a backward step and a move to us certainly would be that.