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Will fans be allowed in next season?


reddogkev

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https://completemusicupdate.com/article/melvin-benn-proposes-plan-to-get-live-music-back-to-full-capacity-by-november/

 

Melvin Benn of Festival Republic proposed this plan for live events to get back to full capacity in June. It is likely going to rolled out and pushed forward step by step. Small hall sporting events will be trialled from as early as next month with Matchroom supposedly leading the way, bringing in small crowds for sports such as snooker and darts. 

Second peaks, spikes etc have the ability to **** it all up, so it suppose whether or not you think we’ll see city at anything close to full capacity should come down to how much faith you have in the competence of this government’s plan.

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5 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

We're talking about October. Still 3 months away. The Jenner Institute in Oxford are anticipating they'll have a vaccine ready to roll out by then.

Not strictly true. Based upon successful trial results they will have a vaccine ready to roll out. Trials are more likely to fail than be successful so slightly misleading to say ready to roll out?

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35 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

When I was a young' un in the 60's, I had an anti-g*s vaccination. Worked a treat and no need for a booster jab at any point.

They went for herd immunity, and it worked.

They vast majority of people won't be catching gas-throw-in-travitus; and those few who do have it are a lost cause.

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1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

If we've sold 12k STH's for next season I doubt there will be a problem fitting in all those who actually want to go.

I imagine there are thousands who will feel unsafe and therefore have already decided not to go until things markedly improve; then we have all the cheap Junior tickets which are only used a few times a season anyway.

Even if the safety limit is as low as 5-6k that would probably meet demand as things stand imo.

If the rumours of Michael Appleton have legs, that'll be more than enough. 

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6 hours ago, zombie said:

Think we’ve sold circa 12k Season Cards, just trying to reduce that number to get in line with whatever the permitted capacity will be, no one really knows, but if by removing U19s and OAP then the number drops to 7k then we’re at approximately 25% which someone suggested. If it drops to 9-10k then that’s what the Bears are talking about.

Obviously no food and drink initially, that along with the reduced numbers should reduce the need for or at least heavy demand/queuing for toilets.

Just trying to think of a solution other than a weekly ballot, think getting rid of the young ones (in September they’re likely to be more exposed on the whole) and the old (obviously more at risk if they catch it). It’s by no way a perfect solution, but removing them could get us to around the number we need.

How to determine who sits where, that would be something the club can work out, we know the SS is pretty much all Season card holder, I’d propose that some of those would be transferred to behind the other goal in the Atyeo.

I’m sure in the group of adults I’m talking about (20-64) we’d be expecting and willing to put up with not being in our normal seat, but hopefully close enough. I sit in W16, don’t mind moving a block over either way or upstairs. Normal life has been disrupted far more than asking me to sit in a different red chair.

Hey Zombie. 

I know you popped your tin hat on so I’m not gonna disappoint, ha ha. 
 

You’ve referenced in quite a few posts that u19’s should be in an excluded group, because you say that they’ll be more exposed than others once schools open. 
I just wanted to challenge that a little. What makes my 6 year old, in a class of 28, being socially ‘bubbled’ from the rest of the school, more exposed than blokes who work in close contact with hundreds of others in factories, blokes who’ve been getting down the boozer and mingling with hundreds of others out on the lash, those who work in the nhs who may be in contact with 100’s of potential risks per day? 
 

My daughter, who's desperate to go to football again, would be in contact with 30 people per day. Your 20-64 cohort, many of them will be engaging in much higher risk contact per day than her. 
If you’re looking at excluding groups, how about those who work in the nhs, care homes, clothes factories, pubs, etc? Are they the prolific carriers? Can you exclude BAME due to their higher mortality risk? 
See - it doesn’t work does it. 
You can’t exclude groups of people based on age, gender, lifestyle, occupation etc. 
 

The only people to exclude from any potential solution are those who voluntarily ‘opt-out’. 
There’s likely a fair number of fans who won’t be happy to return yet for varying reasons, so the first port of call from the club would be to ascertain which ST holders are happy to return. From there, it’s a complex arrangement, but the voluntary opt-outs are the only people you can exclude from any process. 

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An interesting thing with the pandemic is that Sweden, a country with independent authorities, sticked to the plan agreed upon and  established by international experts around the globe when in other countries, England included. politicians (Turkey Johnson included) took charge knowing nothing pissing in their pants closing down society. Time will tell.

Listen for yourself 33:45 in https://sverigesradio.se/avsnitt/1518764 

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2 hours ago, Lez said:

Key word "target". Totally unrealistic though.

And what experience/qualifications do you have to say that about such a complex field such as immunology or vaccinology. Like most of us, I'm sure you hadn't a clue as to how vaccines are developed before this came about. With the greatest of respect I'd trust a hugely qualified research scientist, who has spent years of their life dedicated to such a niche, over you. Actually, that respect is probably not required. 

39 minutes ago, foghornred said:

No fans until a vaccine is found but don't hold your breath !

I would not be so sure. The FA and other sporting bodies are drawing up plans now. The government want to run trial events by the end of this month.

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1 hour ago, Harry said:

Hey Zombie. 

I know you popped your tin hat on so I’m not gonna disappoint, ha ha. 
 

You’ve referenced in quite a few posts that u19’s should be in an excluded group, because you say that they’ll be more exposed than others once schools open. 
I just wanted to challenge that a little. What makes my 6 year old, in a class of 28, being socially ‘bubbled’ from the rest of the school, more exposed than blokes who work in close contact with hundreds of others in factories, blokes who’ve been getting down the boozer and mingling with hundreds of others out on the lash, those who work in the nhs who may be in contact with 100’s of potential risks per day? 
 

My daughter, who's desperate to go to football again, would be in contact with 30 people per day. Your 20-64 cohort, many of them will be engaging in much higher risk contact per day than her. 
If you’re looking at excluding groups, how about those who work in the nhs, care homes, clothes factories, pubs, etc? Are they the prolific carriers? Can you exclude BAME due to their higher mortality risk? 
See - it doesn’t work does it. 
You can’t exclude groups of people based on age, gender, lifestyle, occupation etc. 
 

The only people to exclude from any potential solution are those who voluntarily ‘opt-out’. 
There’s likely a fair number of fans who won’t be happy to return yet for varying reasons, so the first port of call from the club would be to ascertain which ST holders are happy to return. From there, it’s a complex arrangement, but the voluntary opt-outs are the only people you can exclude from any process. 

In a subsequent post I did go on to say my main concern was for those at the other end of our fan base, the 65+, I was trying to find a way the club can divide us in to groups using the info they have about us. Thankfully they do not ask questions about our race, occupation, lifestyle. They do know that your son is 6 and my old man is in his 70s. You will never get a perfect solution, but using the information the club has I think excluding those most at risk if they catch it makes sense, the next group I’d then look at would be the younger ones, may be not your daughter, but may be the U12s.

I personally am of the opinion grown men and women might be easier to herd around than 6 year olds. Your 6 year old might not even be able to sit directly next to you as it would mess up the seating pattern, is he and are all his peers capable of sitting in one spot for 2 hours plus? I see a lot of kids there and they tend to need more attention from a parent than a fellow adult would, they also need more stimulus than just the game, that could be iPads, sweets etc... I also think they could be more of a transmission risk than at adult, not deliberately but just because they may not be fully aware of how to act.

I was interested in hearing others thoughts, and I do feel for those who I have suggested miss out. However using the data the club has it makes far more sense to divide the fans on age than any other way. I agree with everything you say regarding some people being more exposed than others depending on occupation, I agree that some are more careful than others. I am more careful than most, would love to go back to the boozer but am choosing not to (opting out) because my partner is frontline at Southmead, we obviously share a bed and therefore our level of exposure is more than most, hence why I choose to mask up. The club aren’t privy to this information though, they do however know everybody’s birthday.

I was trying to play devils advocate a little, just trying to cut the 12k season card holders down a bit using the only information the club have a their disposal. I’m sure we have many medical professionals at the Gate, as we do key workers, factory workers and definitely pissheads who have been hitting the pubs hard in the last week. The club can’t identify these though. These individuals (and their partners like myself) are arguably more exposed than your boy, but hopefully more able to keep the mask on for the few hours and not require so much attention from a fellow supporter/father.

Just looking for a way of reducing the number of season ticket holder who may want to go, I’m sure a few would opt out voluntarily. We have no idea what our new attendance may be, but if we get the number below that then we can add to it, perhaps starting with those older children, get the 16-19s, then the 12-16s etc...

No perfect or easy solution. Let people opt out, then potentially the very old, then may be the very young, thank god I don’t have to decide.

 

 

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7 hours ago, bcfcfinker said:

There are so many ways to do this, but to offer one:

Club put the feelers out to the ST holders, 'You pay half price of a ST for RobinTV and we'll hold your seat for the following season. Would you be interested?'. See what response they get.

If not good enough to achieve the 40% capacity, then draw a lot. Offer a full refund or the offer of half price ST with RobinsTV still stands, with a hold on the seat for the following season.

Ultimately, they aren't going to keep everyone happy so they have to come up with couple of proposals and see what the majority of fans are happy with.

I just hope that fans are consulted on options available rather than just 'Here's what we've decided'.

Agree with this approach. I’d be surprised if there weren’t quite a few season ticket holders who won’t want to attend matches when the season starts for a variety of reasons - be that health, age, travel by public transport, risk decision, change in financial situation due to COVID, not being able to sit in usual seat, Robins TV being adequate alternative etc. So I would expect the club to find out how many do want to attend - that may give the reduced crowd by itself. No away fans will also increase spacing options. 

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10 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I heard Bristol Bears are looking to try and get all their season ticket holders attending games from next month, I believe about 8/9k fans. 

A ballot? Having 10k fans in attendance is better than none at all. 

I’m more concerned about Appleton becoming our next manager at this moment in time! ?

Views KITR? 

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10 hours ago, pillred said:

How the hell could the club allow 40% of fans in, how would they choose who to allow, what if you had bought a season ticket with your friend and he was allowed in but not you, can you imagine the uproar, I can't see fans being allowed until it's one in all-in.

Rotation plus pro-rata refunds? Might be one area worth exploring.

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11 hours ago, ashton_fan said:

Where to have a pre-match pint with social distancing?

Short answer, don't see how you can.

11 hours ago, Dolman_Stand said:

How many ST's have we sold for next season? If they were to say no away fans allowed and the number of ST holders were spaced out across all four stands then social distancing would be fairly easily achieved I imagine? You would need to get to the ground early to que up outside your allocated stand for temperature checks etcs and it would feel nothing like a traditional day out at football but I am resonably confident there will be fans in the ground for the start of next season.

Very true...read one article that suggested grounds/gates would open 3 hrs before kickoff.

The upshot of that is no pub pre game really, no fanzone, certainly no rushing in from pub 5 mins before kickoff or even the last half-hour...it would be very different for sure.

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10 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Everyone doesn't need it to be honest. In fact, in order to build up immunity it's pretty important children, for example, catch it. It's another strain of the common cold. 

For mass roll out, yes. But by October the government will likely give consent for the vaccine to be used on the most vulnerable. Assuming successful this will reduce serious cases of the illness dramatically - and it already has reduced dramatically, not only because of social distancing but because hospitals have learnt how to deal with the virus much better i.e. use of dexamethasone etc

A few queries- should be on the real Covid thread tbh my post but anyway...

  1. Rushed vaccines can lead to serious or debilitating but unintended side effects. With significant compensation payments- undoubtedly a risk of taking rushed vaccines.
  2. Mild cases appear to throw up risk of nasty, medium to long term health problems!

This virus has a lot that is unknown. "Another strain of the common cold" sounds a tad cheery to me! I understand that the common cold is a covid of course, part of the same virus family, but this particular strain ie Covid 19, it seems to throw up the risk of all sorts of nasty side effects in even seemingly mild or asymptomatic cases- to name a few, brain damage, lung damage, lung scarring. The range of symptoms is quite notably diverse too...your assessment seems a very optimistic one I must say!

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3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Short answer, don't see how you can.

Very true...read one article that suggested grounds/gates would open 3 hrs before kickoff.

The upshot of that is no pub pre game really, no fanzone, certainly no rushing in from pub 5 mins before kickoff or even the last half-hour...it would be very different for sure.

Here's a novel idea, take your drink to the seat. If they have social distancing in pubs at present, why couldn't they do it in the concourse? The attendance would be less, so not as many as currently use it and they could still have outside areas. Leave certain doors open for fresh air and restrict the access.

I'm sure they'll find a way of bringing the game to the majority of supporters/customers.

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2 minutes ago, Rich said:

Here's a novel idea, take your drink to the seat. If they have social distancing in pubs at present, why couldn't they do it in the concourse? The attendance would be less, so not as many as currently use it and they could still have outside areas. Leave certain doors open for fresh air and restrict the access.

I'm sure they'll find a way of bringing the game to the majority of supporters/customers.

I was thinking more pre-game pub routine.

Would need a change in legislation for that, the drink in view of the pitch.

I think the queuing social distanced, combined with searching, combined with testing/temperature checks would take a long time indeed for people to get in. Perhaps I'm overestimating that side!

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3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I was thinking more pre-game pub routine.

Would need a change in legislation for that, the drink in view of the pitch.

I think the queuing social distanced, combined with searching, combined with testing/temperature checks would take a long time indeed for people to get in. Perhaps I'm overestimating that side!

They've changed legislation on loads of things recently and very quickly. Just need an alteration to state no prosecutions, for doing what rugby fans are allowed to do anyway.

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8 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

I see our upcoming game against Stoke has been moved to 5pm. You know, when people are often still at work or making their way home. Putting fans first as ever.

Do we know who makes these calls- the EFL or the club themselves?

Nobody has ever been able to explain that one! It strikes me as the sort of decisions that might be made centrally? Leeds have successive 5pm Thursday slots for example!

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1 minute ago, Rich said:

They've changed legislation on loads of things recently and very quickly. Just need an alteration to state no prosecutions, for doing what rugby fans are allowed to do anyway.

35 years and counting but these are exceptional times so maybe!

@JulieH ?

Would food and drink outlets be open in any case. The poster higher up the thread who suggested turn up, be checked, go to seat, go home- was something like that- sounds quite realistic.

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8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Do we know who makes these calls- the EFL or the club themselves?

Nobody has ever been able to explain that one! It strikes me as the sort of decisions that might be made centrally? Leeds have successive 5pm Thursday slots for example!

Last time there was some excuse about player welfare i.e. they’d get home very late. Doesn’t cut it for me - they’re highly paid to entertain us so they should damn well be doing it when most of us who pay to watch it are actually available.

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8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

35 years and counting but these are exceptional times so maybe!

@JulieH ?

Would food and drink outlets be open in any case. The poster higher up the thread who suggested turn up, be checked, go to seat, go home- was something like that- sounds quite realistic.

Just like any other establishment, they'll want to have every avenue of revenue open wherever possible. Pubs and restaurants do it, shops do it, cafes do it, Gyms and swimming pools do it, public transport. I know they're all limited but, that's what we're talking about here. Limited attendance in the largest spaces possible with lots of fresh air, effectively outdoors but with a roof on.

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15 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Last time there was some excuse about player welfare i.e. they’d get home very late. Doesn’t cut it for me - they’re highly paid to entertain us so they should damn well be doing it when most of us who pay to watch it are actually available.

Again, that doesn't account for whether it's club or EFL led. Given the flux in general and with kickoff times, I'm thinking it might be the latter- would Leeds choose the 5pm Thursday slot for successive weeks eg?

Might be the case that the club are getting the flak when it's not been their call to make!

12 minutes ago, Rich said:

Just like any other establishment, they'll want to have every avenue of revenue open wherever possible. Pubs and restaurants do it, shops do it, cafes do it, Gyms and swimming pools do it, public transport. I know they're all limited but, that's what we're talking about here. Limited attendance in the largest spaces possible with lots of fresh air, effectively outdoors but with a roof on.

They may well want it and frankly commercially it'd be needed, but will it be deemed safe etc? Who knows!

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1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Again, that doesn't account for whether it's club or EFL led. Given the flux with kickoff times, I'm thinking it might be the latter- would Leeds choose the 5pm Thursday slot for successive weeks eg?

Might be the case that the club are getting the flak when it's not been their call to make!

They may well want it and frankly commercially it'd be needed, but will it be deemed safe etc? Who knows!

I refer to my previous statement about other establishments. 

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