Holden missed a trick today?

[archie andrews]

26 minutes ago, Slippin cider said:

Well we ain’t making the play offs that’s for sure ....I reckon 9th or 10th at best 

not mathematicly over yet SC......

[RedLionLad]

9 minutes ago, BCFC Grim said:

More entertaining than the game this 

‘In the mouth, in the mouth, in the mouth’

 

I remember that chant from watching fights in the playground 

[AppyDAZE]

Given in

[Bristol Oil Services]

57 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

 There’s always something to criticise if we don’t win though, isn’t there?  

Yes.

And?

[phantom]

Just proves the powers that be were too late in saving out season

[archie andrews]

4 minutes ago, phantom said:

Just proves the powers that be were too late in saving out season

we got the austin powers that be.......

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Lez said:

You could argue hindset, and stoke clearly had a good solid structure to them which made them hard to break down......but surely everyone could see an equaliser coming and that Holden needed some fresh legs on the pitch.

Unchanged side 3rd game in a row, after playing wed sat wed.....and the players were visibly tiring.

Massengo, Nagy ODowda, Rowe etc have hardly featured over the past few weeks and they all could have come on to add real fresh legs (stokes players looked knackered too).....but it didnt happen.....and stoke scored. We created little all game.....Stoke hit the post missed a one on one and Bently made a great save.

Credit to the side for pushing until the end but I think their legs ran out today and I think Holden should have changed things up earlier.

 

Yep, 3 games in 7 days off the back of a busy schedule.  Don’t disagree with starting eleven, but you have to prepared to spot the point players start looking tired.

My match scribbles for jogging my memory:

46 Lazy by Kalas, bailed out by Smith block

51 Warning from Powell (loose shot)

52 Vyner better in air this time

55 Pato yellow - off the pace

56 Powell post, losing flicks

58 creating our own problems, loose passes, looking leggy, 3x same side...

61 Kalas header no contact made

63 Batth goal 1-1

53 minutes ago, Taz said:

If he was auditioning for the job, then for me (not that I thought he should get it anyway) he's blown it.

As you point out, fresh legs needed, and the spark we've seen in previous games just wasn't quite there.

I get the need for continuity, especially when we haven't had much of it in the last 2 years or so, but today was crying out for a change or two at around the 55 minute mark. Stoke started the 2nd half well, and the equaliser was coming.

Wouldn't surprise me if the new man is announced between now and the weekend, especially as that point doesn't really do much for us. 

Smith was better today, Kalas is starting to look more like the defender of last year, but for me the most improved today looked to be Benkovic. It would be interesting to see how he plays over the last few games, and if Leicester aren't looking to play him much next season, I'd be tempted to get him in on a season long loan.

Williams will be off, Vyner isn't ready for where we want to be, and Baker, despite playing really well lately, has now been subbed twice during a game in quick succession again. He has been playing with more tenacity recently, but can't be relied upon for a whole season.

I’m not sure “blown it” is fair.  We drew 1-1 with a team who would be mid-table if O’Neill had been in charge all season.  Nor do I think Holden was ever in the running, but I think he’s semi-galvanised a group of players pretty well.  At least we appear to play to a pattern.

The Vyner sub may have had some influence in terms of not wanting to waste another, but I agree with you both that fresh legs were needed.

In fairness to Stoke, they went much more direct, stretched the game, and players like Pato and Weimann were left doing “doggies” between back 3 and our attack, as Stoke picked up all the bits and pieces.  It was a gamble by Stoke, because had cared for the ball better, we would’ve exposed Stoke.  But we didn’t, they gambled on where the ball would drop and put us under pressure.

The second drinks break got us back on track and we looked better for the final 20 as both teams tired....and neither had cutting edge.

[wayne allisons tongues]

2 hours ago, Carey 6 said:

I thought it was clear we needed an actual centre mid on the pitch for Weimann/Paterson. 

What does he do? Bring on O’Dowda  

Mentioned in another thread he should’ve used all his subs, a few looked very tired! 

As Vyner came on early and we used no subs at HT. There was only 2 times he could of used subs.  I am guessing we waited in case we had an injury early in the half and had to use one.

[mozo]

I think it's fair criticism that today we could have brought some new energy on. Shame.

[PeterStyvarsRightFoot]

2 hours ago, Roger Red Hat said:

Holden out.

Just seen him down the windmill. Holden out out  

[Chappers]

3 games, 7 points, 3 good performances, entertaining, team set up to hide the weak midfield, much quicker going forward.

Not really much to complain about

[maxjak]

11 hours ago, Lez said:

You could argue hindset, and stoke clearly had a good solid structure to them which made them hard to break down......but surely everyone could see an equaliser coming and that Holden needed some fresh legs on the pitch.

Unchanged side 3rd game in a row, after playing wed sat wed.....and the players were visibly tiring.

Massengo, Nagy ODowda, Rowe etc have hardly featured over the past few weeks and they all could have come on to add real fresh legs (stokes players looked knackered too).....but it didnt happen.....and stoke scored. We created little all game.....Stoke hit the post missed a one on one and Bently made a great save.

Credit to the side for pushing until the end but I think their legs ran out today and I think Holden should have changed things up earlier.

 

Holden showed today, against the best of the three sides he has faced, why he is just a caretaker manager.

[Abraham Romanovich]

12 hours ago, Davefevs said:

 

players like Pato and Weimann were left doing “doggies” between back 3 and our attack,

Blimey .

I'm no prude but surely a time and place for everything.

 

[Chappers]

10 hours ago, maxjak said:

Holden showed today, against the best of the three sides he has faced, why he is just a caretaker manager.

And what would a ‘real’ manager have done differently with resources available? 

[maxjak]

32 minutes ago, Chappers said:

And what would a ‘real’ manager have done differently with resources available? 

After 55-60 minutes, as a number of people have pointed out, fresh legs were needed, substitutions should have been made for players who were involved in their 3rd game in a week. We were tiring, and beginning to drop deeper, and the pressure was becoming evident.   I never used the term REAL manager, which is  a cheap shot, and is a phrase I would not be inclined to use.  Holden is a caretaker manager who has done well with the cards he has been dealt, but IMHO he is not capable of taking us to the next level.  I like Holden, but then again I also liked LJ, but being likeable is not the necessary criterea for achieving promotion.

[cidered abroad]

27 minutes ago, maxjak said:

After 55-60 minutes, as a number of people have pointed out, fresh legs were needed, substitutions should have been made for players who were involved in their 3rd game in a week. We were tiring, and beginning to drop deeper, and the pressure was becoming evident.   I never used the term REAL manager, which is  a cheap shot, and is a phrase I would not be inclined to use.  Holden is a caretaker manager who has done well with the cards he has been dealt, but IMHO he is not capable of taking us to the next level.  I like Holden, but then again I also liked LJ, but being likeable is not the necessary criterea for achieving promotion.

I like Holden from the little bits I've seen / heard from him. He was dealt a terrible blow with death of his daughter so clearly a strong character.

But like most City fans, I haven't the faintest idea of his ability as a coach and even less clue about his personnel management skills. 

Thus, I would not feel capable of deciding whether he would be a success as Manager. And I suspect 99.9% of City fans would be the same as me.

[Chappers]

1 hour ago, maxjak said:

After 55-60 minutes, as a number of people have pointed out, fresh legs were needed, substitutions should have been made for players who were involved in their 3rd game in a week. We were tiring, and beginning to drop deeper, and the pressure was becoming evident.   I never used the term REAL manager, which is  a cheap shot, and is a phrase I would not be inclined to use.  Holden is a caretaker manager who has done well with the cards he has been dealt, but IMHO he is not capable of taking us to the next level.  I like Holden, but then again I also liked LJ, but being likeable is not the necessary criterea for achieving promotion.

“Taking is to the next level”. If only there was a magic formula....

[maxjak]

17 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

I like Holden from the little bits I've seen / heard from him. He was dealt a terrible blow with death of his daughter so clearly a strong character.

But like most City fans, I haven't the faintest idea of his ability as a coach and even less clue about his personnel management skills. 

Thus, I would not feel capable of deciding whether he would be a success as Manager. And I suspect 99.9% of City fans would be the same as me.

I was not aware of his daughters death, that is a devastating thing to happen to anyone, I am sorry for him.    My only view of his abilities are gleaned from his work within the trio of him, Macallister and LJ.  I appreciate that LJ was the leader and ultimately made the final decisions, but I just feel we need a clean break from the old regime. I believe a new manager, and whoever he brings along with him, will freshen things up with regard to training exercises, tactical work on the training ground and the new managers vision.   A new approach, I think will do the players good.....as i feel, like many do, that we are less than the sum of our parts, we seem to have a competent squad, but they appear to be underperforming?   I am coming from the stance of having no insider knowledge, so it is just conjecture and an outsiders opinion, I could be way off target, I guess time will tell?

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, maxjak said:

I was not aware of his daughters death, that is a devastating thing to happen to anyone, I am sorry for him.    My only view of his abilities are gleaned from his work within the trio of him, Macallister and LJ.  I appreciate that LJ was the leader and ultimately made the final decisions, but I just feel we need a clean break from the old regime. I believe a new manager, and whoever he brings along with him, will freshen things up with regard to training exercises, tactical work on the training ground and the new managers vision.   A new approach, I think will do the players good.....as i feel, like many do, that we are less than the sum of our parts, we seem to have a competent squad, but they appear to be underperforming?   I am coming from the stance of having no insider knowledge, so it is just conjecture and an outsiders opinion, I could be way off target, I guess time will tell?

I spoke to him about it when the club were at Charlton Farm....might have been the anniversary of it iirc. I think sometimes they like to talk about something other than football.