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The Luxury Lads


mozo
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What becomes of the luxury lads?

Do we agree that Palmer, Paterson and Elliasson are 'luxury' players, which is to say that their occasional moments of genius come at the price of an overall output that isn't good enough?

Do you need players like these in our squad or would we be thick as thieves to keep them on?

What should the new gaffer do with them?

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We dont want to end up with a team of grafters, in the mould of Cole Skuse, good as he was. You need your flair and invention in your team in able to surprise the opposition. Getting the mix right is what makes a good manager/coach.  LJ struggled with this in his selections IMO.

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Hopefully use and develop them. If we should reach the top in this division we have to have players that can do that litlle extra. We will not be a top team with eleven workhorses. The Swedish team can go to quarterfinal in World Cup or EM with luck, then its stop. We need players that can do some magics, in The Swedish team and City.

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8 minutes ago, mozo said:

What becomes of the luxury lads?

Do we agree that Palmer, Paterson and Elliasson are 'luxury' players, which is to say that their occasional moments of genius come at the price of an overall output that isn't good enough?

Do you need players like these in our squad or would we be thick as thieves to keep them on?

What should the new gaffer do with them?

I wouldn’t lump them all under the same umbrella tbh. 

Palmer does show the occasional moment of quality, but hasn’t had a good run of games to show us what he can really do.

Paterson is a one in five player. Has about 10 good games a season and usually manages to stay in the team regardless of form because of the odd good moment. 

Eliasson is a tough one. Tends to look better off the bench but then when he starts, doesn’t do too much. Would love to know how many assists he got whilst not starting. He’ll be off this summer anyway. 

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3 minutes ago, Carey 6 said:

Eliasson is a tough one. Tends to look better off the bench but then when he starts, doesn’t do too much. Would love to know how many assists he got whilst not starting. He’ll be off this summer anyway. 

@Davefevs this in your spreadsheet?

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Im sure if our new manager plays a more flambuoyant style of football than LJ then there will be room in the team for a "luxury" player . Wether that be Palmer or Eliasson or A.N.Other, remains to be seen. Just wish we would appoint someone soon to get the feelgood factor back..(Depending on who takes over of course)

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Its amazing, Elasson havent played many game but he is nr one in the assistlesuge in this division. Said it before: that Niclas is not in the eleven Cityplayers are beyond me. A winger seldom is good in every game but the stats shows what Eliasson is made of. He is a Diamond that not is finish yet. feel sad If he leaves, probably he does. He had most assist in the swedish leauge, now in this lesuge which is better. Interesting to see what leauge he is playing next season. It must have been tough for him sitting on the bench and know he is better than many players in the starting eleven. Hope you understand that my opinion on Niclas is not because he is a swede, for me he is a Cityplayer.

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20 minutes ago, marmite said:

We dont want to end up with a team of grafters, in the mould of Cole Skuse, good as he was. You need your flair and invention in your team in able to surprise the opposition. Getting the mix right is what makes a good manager/coach.  LJ struggled with this in his selections IMO.

The best team in England has a midfield of grafters. The second best Man City have technical players who work fast and hard out of possession. 

Best team in the championship.. Leeds .. Graft. 

Bristol City have players with high technical ability who are passengers. 

 

Edited by Cowshed
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1 minute ago, Cowshed said:

The best team in England has a midfield of grafters. Man City have technical players who work fast and hard out of possession. 

Best team in the championship.. Leeds .. Graft. 

Bristol City have players with technical ability who are passengers. 

 

Youre not trying to tell me that Man City have no flair players??

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27 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

Pato has been easily good enough for us since he's returned from Derby and if we played the correct formation Eliasson would be the 1st name on the teamsheet, his assist record shows as such

Palmer 🤷‍♂️

⬇️⬇️⬇️

27 minutes ago, Carey 6 said:

I wouldn’t lump them all under the same umbrella tbh. 

Palmer does show the occasional moment of quality, but hasn’t had a good run of games to show us what he can really do.

Paterson is a one in five player. Has about 10 good games a season and usually manages to stay in the team regardless of form because of the odd good moment. 

Eliasson is a tough one. Tends to look better off the bench but then when he starts, doesn’t do too much. Would love to know how many assists he got whilst not starting. He’ll be off this summer anyway. 

Paterson on average scores one and assists one every 5 games.  That’s not that bad at all for a creative player (non-striker).

if you label players as luxury, then There’s part of the problem.

23 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

@Davefevs this in your spreadsheet?

Not including today:

As a starter:

1695 minutes - 21 starts - 2 goals - 9 assists

CE90DEF0-042E-4271-A6D7-FB23797FDF4B.thumb.jpeg.a4c9225b3d37ec0cd6f8892f7f270c0d.jpeg
 

As a sub:

465 mins - 17 subs - 1 goal - 5 assists

98DDC234-6270-4957-A676-1199768ABD4E.thumb.jpeg.452343f5530474d8f32810d6d359342f.jpeg

Edited by Davefevs
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Just now, Cowshed said:

I'm telling you they don't have passengers. That's the difference. Liverpool, Man City and Leeds at a lower level observe a shared principle - No player is a luxury. 

Ok. Possible misunderstanding here. What I am  saying is if we play a different style to this year, these so called luxury players will become assets as opposed to passengers. We are singing from the same hymnn sheet here.

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32 minutes ago, sinenomine said:

I don't think Paterson fits the bill. He might not be everyone's cup of tea but he does put in a shift. 

Absolutely.

Our best number 10, the most likely to score (by far), probably most likely to provide an assist. Would always be in my match day squad.

Need to make decisions on Palmer & Szmodics, as we certainly don’t need both but KP might prove tough to shift.

Eliasson is very difficult to fit into a formation, but seems to be on his way anyway.

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23 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Absolutely.

Our best number 10, the most likely to score (by far), probably most likely to provide an assist. Would always be in my match day squad.

Need to make decisions on Palmer & Szmodics, as we certainly don’t need both but KP might prove tough to shift.

Eliasson is very difficult to fit into a formation, but seems to be on his way anyway.

Yes, shifting Palmer won’t be easy, but I’d rather we take that decision than not play him.  Quite happy to say “what could’ve been”.

Ultimately LJ bought him having already bought Szmodics (who had been really sharp pre-season).  He picked him straight away v Leeds.  An injury to Dasilva meant he switched to wingbacks and Palmer had his best run here.  But LJ couldn’t resist tinkering....didn’t suit Palmer....and an expensive £3.5m purchase he has become.

I have no doubts he is a talent, but he also looks like a player who needs games.

I dread to think what fee we might get for him, and that we might have to continue paying his wages too.

Might sit in the new managers “transfermarkt” data, but an expensive error from LJ! 

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1 hour ago, sinenomine said:

I don't think Paterson fits the bill. He might not be everyone's cup of tea but he does put in a shift. 

Paterson is the only player we have who can link the midfield with our strikers, he’s also the only player we have who gets beyond the strikers. He can play on either flank, centrally, or as a 10. If I was managing him I would give him a free role and get him on the ball as much as possible. 

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1 minute ago, Portland Bill said:

Paterson is the only player we have who can link the midfield with our strikers, he’s also the only player we have who gets beyond the strikers. He can play on either flank, centrally, or as a 10. If I was managing him I would give him a free role and get him on the ball as much as possible. 

100%

He's also one of two in my book who has the ability to change the pace of our play (Nagy the other although I appreciate the jury is out for many on him). 

 

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2 hours ago, mozo said:

What becomes of the luxury lads?

Do we agree that Palmer, Paterson and Elliasson are 'luxury' players, which is to say that their occasional moments of genius come at the price of an overall output that isn't good enough?

Do you need players like these in our squad or would we be thick as thieves to keep them on?

What should the new gaffer do with them?

All worth money. I'm more bothered about the litter who are patently not of the standard required 

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1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Absolutely.

Our best number 10, the most likely to score (by far), probably most likely to provide an assist. Would always be in my match day squad.

Need to make decisions on Palmer & Szmodics, as we certainly don’t need both but KP might prove tough to shift.

Eliasson is very difficult to fit into a formation, but seems to be on his way anyway.

I agree, I like Pato as a player. As you say he get's more than his fair share of goals.

I also like the fact that he can play off either foot  - makes a difference when you haven't got to shift it on to your favourite foot before you can make a forward pass.

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Didn't Eliasson have the most/second most assists in the division for a long time?

Got to find a way IMO to fit a player like that into a side!

Paterson I like too, seems to have been quite good since return- and after a very poor start to 2018/19, he certainly improved.

Pretty hard to fit them both in a side, tactically however- maybe you can play a central 2 if Paterson in side too, provided he drops into a 3...beyond that?

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Problem with Eliasson and Palmer is I feel the impression that they are “luxury” rather than grafters in part comes from the need to find a narrative to explain why they don’t start week in and week out.

Like most, I’ve not seen loads of Palmer but I have seen him drop back and do defensive work. And I’m not at all convinced Eliasson doesn’t work hard. I can’t find a stat on how much distance he covers on the pitch but WhoScored has his tackles per game as higher than Weimann, O’Dowda or Watkins, for example, and I’d imagine they are three who people would put i the “grafter” column. (Just had a look and Palmer is higher still).

The reality for both is they have not fit our system this season. And, if they don’t fit the new manager’s system either, then they probably need to move on. But I think the idea they are luxury players comes from people finding explanations for their absence rather than what they have done when present.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Problem with Eliasson and Palmer is I feel the impression that they are “luxury” rather than grafters in part comes from the need to find a narrative to explain why they don’t start week in and week out.

Like most, I’ve not seen loads of Palmer but I have seen him drop back and do defensive work. And I’m not at all convinced Eliasson doesn’t work hard. I can’t find a stat on how much distance he covers on the pitch but WhoScored has his tackles per game as higher than Weimann, O’Dowda or Watkins, for example, and I’d imagine they are three who people would put i the “grafter” column. (Just had a look and Palmer is higher still).

The reality for both is they have not fit our system this season. And, if they don’t fit the new manager’s system either, then they probably need to move on. But I think the idea they are luxury players comes from people finding explanations for their absence rather than what they have done when present.

 

 

Yeah, I'm with this.  I don't buy into us being so much weaker defensively when they're on the pitch at all.

Earlier in the season LJ compared starting with 2 of the so called luxury players as starting a goal down, which is just complete nonsense.

If Weimann gives away a free kick on the edge of the area, he gets a pass from it.  If Palmer does it, he gets called lazy and doesn't play again for a month.

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6 hours ago, Roe said:

Yeah, I'm with this.  I don't buy into us being so much weaker defensively when they're on the pitch at all.

there are aspects with Eliasson particularly where he does look like he has no idea where he should be defensively.  Palmer allows players to run off of him, although it generally is “passing the player on” to someone else....not always though.

Earlier in the season LJ compared starting with 2 of the so called luxury players as starting a goal down, which is just complete nonsense.
crap excuse imho

If Weimann gives away a free kick on the edge of the area, he gets a pass from it.  If Palmer does it, he gets called lazy and doesn't play again for a month.

I don’t think Weimann gets any less criticism from us than several of our players....but if you mean from LJ, then I agree.  It really doesn’t help when he says things like “Weimann needs to start every game”.

 

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7 hours ago, Roe said:

Yeah, I'm with this.  I don't buy into us being so much weaker defensively when they're on the pitch at all.

Earlier in the season LJ compared starting with 2 of the so called luxury players as starting a goal down, which is just complete nonsense.

If Weimann gives away a free kick on the edge of the area, he gets a pass from it.  If Palmer does it, he gets called lazy and doesn't play again for a month.

LJ has completely wasted Palmer . The guy arrived at Ashton Gate hyper motivated and desiring to put down roots and build something in his career. He was badly handled and now looks overweight and lost in the team when he gets minutes.

KP is like Daniel Johnson and can be the difference between mid table mediocrity and a top six finish.

 I hope the new coach gets him firing .

 

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18 hours ago, mozo said:

What becomes of the luxury lads?

Do we agree that Palmer, Paterson and Elliasson are 'luxury' players, which is to say that their occasional moments of genius come at the price of an overall output that isn't good enough?

Do you need players like these in our squad or would we be thick as thieves to keep them on?

What should the new gaffer do with them?

If you look at Leeds, WBA & Brentford, they all have a couple of flair players alongside a good consistent goal scorer who can create something out of nothing to win tight games. 
 

LJ chopped and changed too often in all areas of the pitch and that in my opinion was his Achilles heel

Top teams make very few changes and hence consistency of selection and patterns of play both attack and defence reaps rewards

It will be interesting to see what the next coach does with style & patterns of play

 

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8 hours ago, Roe said:

Yeah, I'm with this.  I don't buy into us being so much weaker defensively when they're on the pitch at all.

Earlier in the season LJ compared starting with 2 of the so called luxury players as starting a goal down, which is just complete nonsense.

If Weimann gives away a free kick on the edge of the area, he gets a pass from it.  If Palmer does it, he gets called lazy and doesn't play again for a month.

This not a defence of Mr Johnson but if Weimann loses the ball he gets goal side, fills in and screens quickly. Palmer might or might not and I will breathe in and state his understanding  of screening and its body positions is rudimentary. 

That is the difference between team centred players and those who are not. 

Palmer plays in role that is becoming ever scarcer in football. Those who play in attacking central midfield roles are also working and running more. The play making ten has virtually disappeared.

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