No plan, no action

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I think a huge part of it is the way the club conducts its business generally. With things like transfers, we rarely get quotes or things leaking out. It happened with Nketiah and there was a period under Cotts with Gayle, Lingaard and Andre Gray but, generally speaking, the board run things as a tight ship where nothing leaks into the media.

Similarly with managers, I suspect the type of manager that leaks details of negotiations around jobs into the press is the type of manager we want to avoid. I don't imagine Christoph Daum was ever really a serious candidate but I suspect, in any case, the moment he began to tell the media about his interest, his chances went out the window.

What surprises me - and impresses me - a little is that no posters on here with inside knowledge seem to have any inkling of what is going on either. It's often harder to conceal things internally than it is externally but no informed rumours seem to be leaking out either.

I've seen a fair bit of press speculation linking one manager or another but it seems clear at the moment nobody knows anything. I suspect, by the end of this week or beginning of next, it will become clear who the new manager will be. But we may never know who else was approached, whether anyone else was seriously in the frame and whether the decision not to take it further was our decision, their decision or a mutual one. 

I think the fact that the bookies are flip-flopping their favourites shows there has been little leaked info.

[CiderCraig]

3 hours ago, Matthew me said:

It's becoming increasingly clear that we dispensed with LJ and had no concrete plan in place. It goes to show that LJ's departure was not something planned for months, it was a quick and dirty decision formulated on our failure to reach the top six.

It's poor management to have no immediate back up plan. Id have expected the club to have pressed forward with CH or big Mick etc rapidly. Allow them time to meet the squad,see them play this year and then build their own team. Sadly, that won't happen. Our new manager will get about 8 weeks. We've missed the boat again.

Come on City, pick someone, get on with it. Give our new manager every chance of success .

After Wednesday, the players are gone. It's holiday time and we won't see them for a month. 

This all feels frustrating and stinks of bargain basement shopping . We'll end up losing CH to a club that act quickly. Guess it's just our "DNA"

 

 

Because you know exactly what's going on, don't you!? 

 

Stop being impatient, the current 'choice' will come, give it time. 

[Bat Fastard]

1 minute ago, LondonBristolian said:

I don't know that we have done nothing though. In pretty much every business outside of football, it would be rare within two weeks of a sacking to have even finalised a job description and got an advert out, let alone shortlisted, interviewed and appointed.

15 days is not a long time at all. Appointments do happen faster in football so I'd expect someone in place by Friday week at the latest and very possibly this week but an appointment before now would have felt rushed to me and I'd have wondered how much due diligence had been done on the candidate. 

It would seem sensible to have all the job description and other requirements finalises before sacking the incumbent manager.  Ducks in a row indicated competent senior management. Just saying...

[Show Me The Money!]

Think the OP is getting a bit of unnecessary grief for just expressing his feelings about the situation. I understand those feelings. We all should with the way we’ve gone about long running transfer sagas in the past and how other clubs have sacked and then has the replacement quickly lined up. We seem to dither or go for unrealistic targets.

 If it was going to be the case that LJ was set a target of playoffs or bust then a plan of what the club would do if the chance of bust should have had the wheels set in motion on who would replace him based on the model the club wants to run under.

 Just feels a bit of a mess when we sack LJ then wait for people to apply. Just feel maybe we should know who we want to get before we pull the trigger on LJ.

With way the club is run with wanting just a head coach then I feel what we are missing now is director of football who should of had a future replacements plan ready to go.

Let’s just hope the time being taken now is worth it.

 Puts on tin hat. Be gentle!

[Red-Robbo]

I suppose it all depends on whether the sacking WAS a decision taken on the fly in the aftermath of the Cardiff match and the entire sitting down and thinking of a replacement process only began then -  which would be incredibly disappointing - or if there is something more to the delay. 

We might never know the reasons.

The OP is right though that these dead rubber matches would've been an ideal time for a new gaffer to look over what we've got and decide what needs to be improved.  It's a waste having Holden as stop-gap for so long. We don't have a three-month summer break to fix this misfiring team.

[Matthew me]

9 minutes ago, CiderCraig said:

Because you know exactly what's going on, don't you!? 

 

Stop being impatient, the current 'choice' will come, give it time. 

I don't know. But logic shows they didn't have a plan for CH, or basically couldn't afford him.

Wait and see.... The Cowley's will rock up.

 

[harvey54]

2 hours ago, Roe said:

It took 23 days to hire LJ after Cotterill went. It takes time. 

And they still got it wrong. He did nothing to merit being manager of our club aoart from bring cheap and Gary's son 

[LondonBristolian]

7 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

It would seem sensible to have all the job description and other requirements finalises before sacking the incumbent manager.  Ducks in a row indicated competent senior management. Just saying...

I would agree. But I've often seen it not happen. And, to be fair, it's hard to have an open conversation about what you'd want the next manager to do differently when someone is already in place. In most cases, a job description would exist but it might still take a short while to finalise it and decide if changes were needed...

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

I suppose it all depends on whether the sacking WAS a decision taken on the fly in the aftermath of the Cardiff match and the entire sitting down and thinking of a replacement process only began then -  which would be incredibly disappointing - or if there is something more to the delay. 

We might never know the reasons.

The OP is right though that these dead rubber matches would've been an ideal time for a new gaffer to look over what we've got and decide what needs to be improved.  It's a waste having Holden as stop-gap for so long. We don't have a three-month summer break to fix this misfiring team.

It was done very quickly.  LJ had no idea (or at least says he didn’t), nor did I think his tone in his post-match interview eluded to that.

But I guess SL and MA may have had a discussion along the lines of - if we can’t get playoffs do we act, or wait til the summer.

[Matthew me]

6 minutes ago, Show Me The Money! said:

Think the OP is getting a bit of unnecessary grief for just expressing his feelings about the situation. I understand those feelings. We all should with the way we’ve gone about long running transfer sagas in the past and how other clubs have sacked and then has the replacement quickly lined up. We seem to dither or go for unrealistic targets.

 If it was going to be the case that LJ was set a target of playoffs or bust then a plan of what the club would do if the chance of bust should have had the wheels set in motion on who would replace him based on the model the club wants to run under.

 Just feels a bit of a mess when we sack LJ then wait for people to apply. Just feel maybe we should know who we want to get before we pull the trigger on LJ.

With way the club is run with wanting just a head coach then I feel what we are missing now is director of football who should of had a future replacements plan ready to go.

Let’s just hope the time being taken now is worth it.

 Puts on tin hat. Be gentle!

Great post. 

Thanks

[Matthew me]

7 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

I suppose it all depends on whether the sacking WAS a decision taken on the fly in the aftermath of the Cardiff match and the entire sitting down and thinking of a replacement process only began then -  which would be incredibly disappointing - or if there is something more to the delay. 

We might never know the reasons.

The OP is right though that these dead rubber matches would've been an ideal time for a new gaffer to look over what we've got and decide what needs to be improved.  It's a waste having Holden as stop-gap for so long. We don't have a three-month summer break to fix this misfiring team.

Youve hit the nail on the head! That's my point exactly. 

Surely if you fire someone, that's not a snap reaction. They should have a plan ready and then activate! 

[red panda]

Even if the Board thought they knew who they wanted, or who some of the leading candidates might be, they wouldn't have had any opportunity to have a proper conversation with these people, to see if they were genuinely interested in the job, to listen to their views on how to take the club forward, to gauge the extent to which they are willing to work within both the letter and the spirit of the club's philosophy, and so on.  These things take time, and people who you might have thought ideal could turn out to be less promising once these conversations take place.  And some outsiders might wow the board during these conversations, as LJ may or may not have done.

[And Its Smith]

A very negative viewpoint based on no facts whatsoever.  

[Bat Fastard]

2 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I would agree. But I've often seen it not happen. And, to be fair, it's hard to have an open conversation about what you'd want the next manager to do differently when someone is already in place. In most cases, a job description would exist but it might still take a short while to finalise it and decide if changes were needed...

I would be surprised if Ashton and the Lansdowns had not been in deep conversation about the management position throughout the latest poor run of results and the social media howling mob making themselves impossible to ignore.  Ashton seems to be a very professional chap and would have had plans in mind.  This stuff should not happen on the fly.

[ChippenhamRed]

3 hours ago, Matthew me said:

It's becoming increasingly clear that we dispensed with LJ and had no concrete plan in place. It goes to show that LJ's departure was not something planned for months, it was a quick and dirty decision formulated on our failure to reach the top six.

It's poor management to have no immediate back up plan. Id have expected the club to have pressed forward with CH or big Mick etc rapidly. Allow them time to meet the squad,see them play this year and then build their own team. Sadly, that won't happen. Our new manager will get about 8 weeks. We've missed the boat again.

Come on City, pick someone, get on with it. Give our new manager every chance of success .

After Wednesday, the players are gone. It's holiday time and we won't see them for a month. 

This all feels frustrating and stinks of bargain basement shopping . We'll end up losing CH to a club that act quickly. Guess it's just our "DNA"

 

 

Pure speculation. We don’t know anything.

Rather than draw conclusions you can’t possibly draw in the absence of actual facts, why not just be patient, wait to see what happens, and then cast your judgements on the board’s actions.

[Kid in the Riot]

2 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

That's the thing about this vacancy that I've also noticed - there doesn't seem to be a huge amount of chatter about it and not many concrete rumours. 

I'm not really sure what to make of that because I have no doubt that plenty is happening in the background. Feels a bit unusual though, I don't remember it being so quiet for other appointments. 

The club have become very good at keeping things quiet. I've spoken to many people and heard various things but I honestly don't have a clue which way we'll go with this appointment, and no-one I've spoken to can second guess SL on this either. 

Unless we make an appointment in the next 48 hours or so, then we will be joining the many other clubs searching for a new manager at the end of the season. Not ideal imo. On the plus side as mentioned by @Davefevs it will mean there is potential for new candidates to become available.

[Red Exile]

3 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Pure speculation. We don’t know anything.

Rather than draw conclusions you can’t possibly draw in the absence of actual facts, why not just be patient, wait to see what happens, and then cast your judgements on the board’s actions.

In fairness to the OP though, what exactly does 'being patient' look or read like on a football forum?

It would be a bit quiet!

 

[Phileas Fogg]

5 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

The club have become very good at keeping things quiet. I've spoken to many people and heard various things but I honestly don't have a clue which way we'll go with this appointment, and no-one I've spoken to can second guess SL on this either. 

Unless we make an appointment in the next 48 hours or so, then we will be joining the many other clubs searching for a new manager at the end of the season. Not ideal imo. On the plus side as mentioned by @Davefevs it will mean there is potential for new candidates to become available.

Can you give any insight into the type of manager we've primarily been looking at based on what you've heard?

It seems the main types we've been linked with have been 

• High profile, been there and done it types (Hughton, McCarthy)
• Big name, relatively inexperienced (Gerrard, Terry)
• Lower league and/or low reputation (Lowe, Cowley
• Foreign unknown (no firm rumoured names, just Ashton's comments)

Is that a fair assessment?

[Matthew me]

11 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

A very negative viewpoint based on no facts whatsoever.  

When the Cowley's take over, I suspect my views regarding no plan, ad-hoc strategy will be proven correct. Hope I'm wrong 

[LondonBristolian]

I've no basis and no inside knowledge but I've got a feeling the club want a name who can raise the profile of the club and would take a risk on an inexperienced manager with potential.

If I was a betting man, I'd be putting money on John Terry.  I reckon the rumour we had discussions with Gerrard and did not reach agreement might be true. 

I still reckon Robins, Bowyer or Lowe could come into the frame as back-up options though. I don't reckon we are the ones that approached Cowley but may be wrong.  I don't reckon it will be Hughton and I definitely can't see us going for Pearson or McCarthy. 

[mozo]

21 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

A very negative viewpoint based on no facts whatsoever.  

That' supporting Bristol City in its truest form...

13 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

The club have become very good at keeping things quiet. 

That's annoying 

[And Its Smith]

9 minutes ago, Matthew me said:

When the Cowley's take over, I suspect my views regarding no plan, ad-hoc strategy will be proven correct. Hope I'm wrong 

Even if they do take over it would not prove anything conclusively.  The board may have had a plan and those they wanted didn’t accept the job.  Or better jobs became available.  All you are doing is taking a situation nobody knows anything about and deciding to look at it negatively 

[Phileas Fogg]

4 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I've no basis and no inside knowledge but I've got a feeling the club want a name who can raise the profile of the club and would take a risk on an inexperienced manager with potential.

If I was a betting man, I'd be putting money on John Terry.  I reckon the rumour we had discussions with Gerrard and did not reach agreement might be true. 

I still reckon Robins, Bowyer or Lowe could come into the frame as back-up options though. I don't reckon we are the ones that approached Cowley but may be wrong.  I don't reckon it will be Hughton and I definitely can't see us going for Pearson or McCarthy. 

I think you might be on the right lines. I wonder if Terry would be too divisive. I wouldn't rule out a similar high profile former player appointment from abroad. Someone international/world level as a player who's retired in the last 10 years.

[Red-Robbo]

22 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It was done very quickly.  LJ had no idea (or at least says he didn’t), nor did I think his tone in his post-match interview eluded to that.

But I guess SL and MA may have had a discussion along the lines of - if we can’t get playoffs do we act, or wait til the summer.

For someone who ran his business on a strategic basis, adapting to long-term market trends, it would be very disappointing if Lansdown hadn't started considering the possibility that LJ might miss his target before it was definitive.

Of course, you aren't going to approach anyone with a formal job offer while LJ is still being given the chance to pull the team back from its nosedive, but you'd have thought that discussions and discrete sounding out of availability/interest might have been made from before that. I'd have started before the lockdown. We sound out players' agents like this. We should have done it for the managerial post. 

But of course there may be other considerations.

 

[Matthew me]

3 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Even if they do take over it would not prove anything conclusively.  The board may have had a plan and those they wanted didn’t accept the job.  Or better jobs became available.  All you are doing is taking a situation nobody knows anything about and deciding to look at it negatively 

My intention is not to be negative. I guess it's more about frustration. Don't mean to be a Debbie Downer!

Just fear we could be sat waiting and end up with everyone else's reject list

Hope I'm wrong! Hope CH is on the roof with his red and white shirt very soon!

[Chappers]

We have no idea when the new season starts, no idea of fan restrictions, cannot make any financial plans, so what’s the rush?

[Lrrr]

2 minutes ago, Matthew me said:

Hope I'm wrong! Hope CH is on the roof with his red and white shirt very soon!

There's very little white on our current shirt, hope you don't mean he'll be Boro manager 

[Kid in the Riot]

7 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Can you give any insight into the type of manager we've primarily been looking at based on what you've heard?

It seems the main types we've been linked with have been 

• High profile, been there and done it types (Hughton, McCarthy)
• Big name, relatively inexperienced (Gerrard, Terry)
• Lower league and/or low reputation (Lowe, Cowley
• Foreign unknown (no firm rumoured names, just Ashton's comments)

Is that a fair assessment?

As you've shown in that list there is a real variant in the types of managers being linked. In terms of ones that I've heard we are actually interested in then I'd have to say they do fall into the last three categories. In terms of the likes of Hughton and McCarthy, whilst they have both stated they have an interest in the job, to my knowledge that isn't replicated by the club - but that's not to say we definitely aren't interested in that type. Maybe just not these two specifically, or maybe it's just being kept very quiet. There is however of course logic in the argument that if we were interested in Hughton, for example, then it should be done by now given he is out of work and our season is over. 

I speculated in the middle of last week that Gerrard was SL's first choice and so it was interesting to read the Express article from Saturday night that stated Gerrard has turned us down and also that he was our first choice. That seems to fit together. I'm no longer convinced Hughton is the "fallback" as I suggested last week, however.

[And Its Smith]

Just now, Matthew me said:

My intention is not to be negative. I guess it's more about frustration. Don't mean to be a Debbie Downer!

Just fear we could be sat waiting and end up with everyone else's reject list

Hope I'm wrong! Hope CH is on the roof with his red and white shirt very soon!

I think the pretty unrealistic Hughton option is clouding everyone’s judgment on alternatives.  He has allegedly turned down one Premier League and four Championship jobs in the last year. He has Watford, Bournemouth, Villa and Norwich jobs potentially available.

The chance he would want to come to us is pretty slim I reckon. 

If he wasn’t in fans heads then the options such as Robins, Cowley and Lowe might be better received.  

I see the Hughton appointment as a pleasant surprise if it happens.  Looking at it realistically I am happy with the three mentioned above.  

[BrizzleRed]

2 minutes ago, Chappers said:

We have no idea when the new season starts, no idea of fan restrictions, cannot make any financial plans, so what’s the rush?

Every club is in the same position though.  If next season turns to shit, we’ll invariably be getting the ‘ah well, that’s because we lost pre-season, because we didn’t have the new Head Coach in place’.  

That’ll be another year down the crapper, so I think that does justify pushing things as quickly as possible.