Other Manager Options (Merged)

[Kibs]

2 minutes ago, supercidered said:

I agree with you. What I'm saying is that there are loads of people who are 'worried'. Massive difference between being worried and knowing we are going to f@ck it up. I reckon I try and look at things in general logically. However, when it comes to City logic can go out the window. It's the hope that kills you and on this occasion that hope is that we get it right. We have to get it right.

Yes this is where I'm at.

But I'm holding on to a few positives!

• The fact that we seem pretty good at keeping things quiet these days
• SL will have seen first hand with the Rugby what an appointment of a top manager/head coach can do
• SL has made mistakes in the past with appointments, but so have most chairmen
• It surely won't have escaped SL that our stock is the highest it's been for a long time, and this is a big opportunity. I don't think he'll waste it.

 

[BrizzleRed]

6 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

But mate, this is my point, exactly this, how do you know "we are ******* up a massive opportunity"?

Nobody knows. What happens if CH is announced tomorrow? Have we ****** it up? No, so lets just see what happens!!!!

My point is, people are acting like we've "******* up a massive opportunity" when they don't KNOW!!!!!!  

No disrespect Badger, but you’ve really got no more idea if we’ll get it right than the ones who are fearing the club are going to mess this up!

It’s a discussion forum and people are discussing.  Obviously it’s far better to have solid facts, but in the absense of any info coming from the club, but with some ominous sounds out in the media, it’s human nature to speculate.

I’d guess the majority of us on here are ‘paying customers’ after all, so have every right to discuss our concerns, so we all have a right to discuss, don’t we?

[Red Exile]

18 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

Because this is a forum and I have a different view.  My view is, it's embarrassing that so many people are having a pop at an owner and about a process that nobody  has any knowledge of information about. NOBODY. The vitriol on here is tiresome and draining. Negativity, negativity, negativity. 

It's all made up stories, scenarios and complete fantasy which people actually take as golden. 

I'm sick of this club being beaten with a stick at EVERY opportunity, even when they could be making the right decisions behind the scenes.

 

Fair enough. But the view I was reacting to was 'this forum is like a bunch of spoilt children stamping their feet as they don't know what they're getting for Christmas. It's truly pathetic. Let's just wait and see before getting our panties in a twist.'

If you wandered into a meeting and shouted that I think most people gathered there would expect you to be leaving pretty soon.

Everyone on this forum loves Bristol City and wants the club to do well.

[Kibs]

3 minutes ago, CliftonCliff said:

I suspect the appointments at Swansea and Cardiff of Cooper and Harris, respectively, were also seen by fans at the time as “underwhelming “. Both clubs are, of course, now in the playoffs. We’re not.

Really? I thought Harris was a cracking appointment tbh.

I take your point though, big names guarantee you nothing. 

[supercidered]

4 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

I think the issue I have, is that people who are worried about it are talking like it's fact. That SL is taking a cheap option and wants to employ a "yes man". 

It draining reading people attacking SL and the club before they even know any facts. 

OTIB is an emotional and sometimes volatile place. People are worried and concerned and sometimes typing a message can come across differently than the point they are trying to make. 

I am both worried and concerned and I feel that these feelings are justified. As I said previously, it is the hope that kills you and it is draining. I just hope (that word again) that they get it right. It has to be one of the most important decisions made for as  long as I can remember and I'm in my 50's.

[Phileas Fogg]

5 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

I totally get that, I really do. We are actually on the same page, but let's just wait to see what happens before we get the pitchforks and touches out, that's all I'm saying. 

Some people are going to look VERY silly if CH is announced. 

It's just human nature. People see Huddersfield, one of our rivals and a similar club to us in some ways, appointing someone very quickly. They see Gerrard apparently turning us down. They see rumours of Hughton being spoken too.. but not committing just yet for whatever reason whilst clubs like Watford and Bournemouth may come in for him. All the while people like Flynn and Rowe are were still high up in the betting.

Personally, I don't worry about it too much. There's nothing I can do about who we appoint but I appreciate that others are very concerned. OTIB is an outlet for people and they like to vent. Sometimes it is hyperbolic and frankly a bit silly but that's what the forum is there for.

[BrizzleRed]

6 minutes ago, Kibs said:

Really? I thought Harris was a cracking appointment tbh.

I take your point though, big names guarantee you nothing. 

There lies the problem and why there are a lot of people worried about the next appointment.  

We have a pretty poor record of appointing the right fit for this club in terms of managers, so the fans have every right to have concerns.

As you say, it doesn’t have to be a top name for it to work, but our history just doesn’t suggest we’ve got much skill in spotting that elusive right person.

Hopefully the next one will buck the trend!

[BrizzleRed]

14 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

No disrespect taken. 

Exactly my point. It's not the people who are discussing things, it's people who are like "Lansdown has messed it up again", "only wants a yes man" blah blah blah. 

I have no ideal if he's going to get it right, I haven't said he is. All I'm saying is, let's not have threads and threads of throwing punches at our owners when we literally have no idea what's going on. That's all I'm saying.

I think the problem lies in the fact that football is a sport that raises passions.  

When you combine that passion with the  ‘glass half full’ and ‘glass half empty’ outlooks in life, what we are seeing in these threads are the result unfortunately.

I also think the glass looks increasingly half empty, the longer you follow this club!!!

[Lew-T]

14 hours ago, Mr X said:

I think Lansdown will only appoint someone who wants to the come to the club entirely of their own accord. I think he’s still got his fingers burnt a bit from the last time he had to ‘Sell the Club’ to bring in a manager with Coppell. 

Why did we make Steven Gerrard our number one choice if he wasn’t interested, allegedly?

 

[Phileas Fogg]

4 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

There lies the problem and why there are a lot of people worried about the next appointment.  

We have a pretty poor record of appointing the right fit for this club in terms of managers, so the fans have every right to have concerns.

As you say, it doesn’t have to be a top name for it to work, but our history just doesn’t suggest we’ve got much skill in spotting that elusive right person.

Hopefully the next one will buck the trend!

Do we have a poor record? 

The only recentish appointments where the general consensus is that they have been poor I'd say are Coppell, Millen, McInnes and SO'D. McInnes and SO'D have asterisks beside them too as they had different issues to contend with. SO'D also did lots of the dirty groundwork for our promotion in 2015.

Is our record on managerial appointments much worse than other clubs of similar standing or is it because we view everything through a Bristol City filter?

[Phileas Fogg]

Just now, Badger08 said:

Agree with this. I think some people have a very black and white view and success and failure.  Ie not in the playoffs or promotion = failed. 

Overall Lee was a success at this club, but we just need someone to build on the success he had to take us to our overall target. 

I suppose again it's natural, it's the same sort of principle as people looking at other clubs signing (for example, Saïd Benrahma) and saying 'why can't we sign players like that' whilst forgetting some of the excellent signings we've made in recent years.

The grass is always greener.

[BrizzleRed]

3 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Do we have a poor record? 

The only recentish appointments where the general consensus is that they have been poor I'd say are Coppell, Millen, McInnes and SO'D. McInnes and SO'D have asterisks beside them too as they had different issues to contend with. SO'D also did lots of the dirty groundwork for our promotion in 2015.

Is our record on managerial appointments much worse than other clubs of similar standing or is it because we view everything through a Bristol City filter?

It depends on how far ahead you’re looking in terms of management I suppose, but I reckon we have generally been pretty poor, especially in terms of fit.

As an example, GJ gave the club a real lift, but he wasn’t a long term manager.  He got us out of League 1 and gave us that amazing first season in the Championship, but I doubt even the most optimistic supporters would think he’d have been up to maging in the Prem if we’d beaten Hull.  He also ignored our up and coming talent and left us with a bloated squad of mediocre players.

Steve Cotterill gave us a fantastic season in League 1, but as we’ve since found out, had a really difficult relationship with the club behind the scenes, so he was far from a perfect fit.

The debate about LJ has been dine to death, but although I can see why SL decided to employ him, I don’t think he can be considered a great appointment in terms of money spent and results obtained.

We can’t name one manager who did such a great job for us, that we were fighting off other clubs who were trying to get their services, so I think that’s quite telling.  

[Phileas Fogg]

4 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

It depends on how far ahead you’re looking in terms of management I suppose, but I reckon we have generally been pretty poor, especially in terms of fit.

As an example, GJ gave the club a real lift, but he wasn’t a long term manager.  He got us out of League 1 and gave us that amazing first season in the Championship, but I doubt even the most optimistic supporters would think he’d have been up to maging in the Prem if we’d beaten Hull.  He also ignored our up and coming talent and left us with a bloated squad of mediocre players.

Steve Cotterill gave us a fantastic season in League 1, but as we’ve since found out, had a really difficult relationship with the club behind the scenes, so he was far from a perfect fit.

The debate about LJ has been dine to death, but although I can see why SL decided to employ him, I don’t think he can be considered a great appointment in terms of money spent and results obtained.

We can’t name one manager who did such a great job for us, that we were fighting off other clubs who were trying to get their services, so I think that’s quite telling.  

I don't think there's any manager in the country who's perfect in terms of long term and short term, perhaps just Klopp off the top of my head. 

We all have our own opinions on the individual managers but I think we're probably far harsher on our own club. 

[Lew-T]

13 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

How do you know SG was our number one choice?

Even SG has stated that neither he or his people have had any contact from Bristol City. That's a direct quote from SG himself.

So anything outside of that, is wild speculation. 

Not so sure. There was too much speculation in the media and on here for there to be zero substance.

[ashton_fan]

24 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Do we have a poor record? 

The only recentish appointments where the general consensus is that they have been poor I'd say are Coppell, Millen, McInnes and SO'D. McInnes and SO'D have asterisks beside them too as they had different issues to contend with. SO'D also did lots of the dirty groundwork for our promotion in 2015.

Is our record on managerial appointments much worse than other clubs of similar standing or is it because we view everything through a Bristol City filter?

And wasn't SO'D appointed fairly quickly, maybe he was lined up to replace McInnes due to his excellent reputation as a coach in the Championship? SL will have remembered this was a mistake and is playing safe now by taking his time, especially as the season's ended.

I think bracketing Millen with the others is a bit unfair, he was dropped in at the deep end and wasn't given the same financial backing as other managers. Despite that kept us up and had a decent season following but the squad was depleted in the summer after due to financial constraints.

[BrizzleRed]

13 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

Agreed. I think the club is in the best position it's been in since I've been supporting this club so I'm half full. 

Brand new Premier League stadium, brand new state of the art training ground, fantastic fans facilities, we've spent money on some quality players, we are an established Championship side. 

I'm not sure what not to be excited about, however, according to some we are taking the cheap option. It's actually (imo) laughable. 

This is an important appointment, so it's going to be interesting. If Lansdown takes a different approach to what we want as fans, then it's not because he is being cheap, or the even more laughable phrase "he doesn't want Premier League football", it's because he truly believes that person was right for the job. Let's just wait and see. 

I largeky agree with you with most of that, but where we differ is your last paragraph.  I’ve just got a nagging doubt creeping in that SL may see it as better business to stay as a competitive side in the Championship, rather than push on to the Prem.

The benefit of that would we’d have more opportunity to keep developing players and bringing in high transfer fees, so making us more sustainable.  That makes very good business sense, but may require different talents in the head coach, than one who is set on going all out for promotion.

I’m hoping we get a clearer view on which route we’re taking, after the next appointment is announced

[Padlad]

I literally don't care about the impatient moaners who want a quick appointment it's just not important, what is important is getting the right man in. Whether our recruitment process is correct remains to be seen. I'm happy to wait and see who we get, then judge. I do wonder if we are waiting for Eddie Howe, would suit SL. I would prefer Chris Houghton but then a individual fan's opinion is irrelevant. 

[AshtonGreat]

13 hours ago, Monkeh said:

So you don't want any new players then

I don't think we need many, to be honest. 

[BrizzleRed]

1 minute ago, Badger08 said:

I think you could be right in terms of the clear view of the next appointment.  If he does employ someone without any experience of this league, I'd like to get some clear thoughts on his thought process. 

Absolutely Badger.  SL has often told us of his ambition to reach the Prem and he has now got every piece in place to make that happen ..... with the exception of a suitable Head Coach.  

If we don’t take this opportunity when everything else is geared for success, the plan is certainly going to look confused, to put it diplomatically!

[bcfc01]

1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

It's just human nature. People see Huddersfield, one of our rivals and a similar club to us in some ways, appointing someone very quickly. They see Gerrard apparently turning us down. They see rumours of Hughton being spoken too.. but not committing just yet for whatever reason whilst clubs like Watford and Bournemouth may come in for him. All the while people like Flynn and Rowe are were still high up in the betting.

Personally, I don't worry about it too much. There's nothing I can do about who we appoint but I appreciate that others are very concerned. OTIB is an outlet for people and they like to vent. Sometimes it is hyperbolic and frankly a bit silly but that's what the forum is there for.

Tend to agree, especially the second paragraph and final sentence.

Bottom line is that whoever becomes manager/head coach, there will be no guarantee of success regardless of name or reputation. I would prefer an appointment which lessens the prospect of failure (ie someone who has promotions from the Championship on their CV) but would fully understand an appointment which fits the current structure. 

I can see the difficult decision they have to make and the time it is taking (which may be down to speaking to the prospective managers' staff requirements and the current staff at the club who may lose their jobs) and I don't envy them having to make that decision.

I would think we'll have an announcement in the next day or so, certainly this week.

 

[BrizzleRed]

22 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I don't think there's any manager in the country who's perfect in terms of long term and short term, perhaps just Klopp off the top of my head. 

We all have our own opinions on the individual managers but I think we're probably far harsher on our own club. 

I’m not so sure about harsh tbh PF.

I think what we’re discussing is why we are still a relative footballing backwater.  We are too ready to settle for average, or just ok at City, which is why I strongly believe we’ll never compete anywhere near the top end of the Prem, like Leicester, Wolves and Sheffield United have done in recent years. 

After getting ourselves up from League 1, we’re satisfied to just consolidate and maybe go up a couple of places each season, with a nice and steady and let’s not rush things attitude.

The clubs who usually succeed are the ones who build a head of steam and momentum and often leap a couple of divisions in a short space of time.

Unless we can shake off our satisfaction with average-ness, I fear we won’t ever be seeing that kind of progress at this club and we’ll continue to be seen as ‘that club with so much potential’.

[Monkeh]

32 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

I don't think we need many, to be honest. 

We need a defensive midfielder a centre back a right back and a striker

[soultrader]

33 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

I don't think we need many, to be honest. 

Really?

Afobe, Benkovic and Pereira have gone.

Seems widely expected that Eliasson and Diedhou will go this summer.

Which leaves the left side of midfield with only COD (I'm not a fan).  

So seems need left midfield/winger and a striker.  Plus as many have mentioned seems our team could do with a midfield marshall type player.

Which is nearly the spine of a team.     

[JamesBCFC]

3 hours ago, downendcity said:

 East Anglia is in the far east - as in, far back in time east.

But the east is ahead in time.

So East Anglia proves the theory that time is cyclical

 

[Phileas Fogg]

55 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

I’m not so sure about harsh tbh PF.

I think what we’re discussing is why we are still a relative footballing backwater.  We are too ready to settle for average, or just ok at City, which is why I strongly believe we’ll never compete anywhere near the top end of the Prem, like Leicester, Wolves and Sheffield United have done in recent years. 

After getting ourselves up from League 1, we’re satisfied to just consolidate and maybe go up a couple of places each season, with a nice and steady and let’s not rush things attitude.

The clubs who usually succeed are the ones who build a head of steam and momentum and often leap a couple of divisions in a short space of time.

Unless we can shake off our satisfaction with average-ness, I fear we won’t ever be seeing that kind of progress at this club and we’ll continue to be seen as ‘that club with so much potential’.

I think that's a bit of a myth. We're one season away from being a Prem club and being able to compete with clubs like those. 

I think actually our fanbase are pretty ambitious - we know Bristol is a large affluent city which has historically under achieved in a sporting capacity, we know our owner is wealthy, we've seen attendances improve and we are now regularly getting a healthy 20k under normal circumstances (feels ages since 14k was a good attendance under GJ), now the new training ground which looks a fantastic facility. 

The fans wanted LJ gone because they didn't feel he could take us to the next level - the club obliged. That's not the attitude of an apathetic club or fanbase. It seems we sounded out Steven Gerrard who'd have cost us several million in comp and wages. We're now looking at Chris Hughton who has a proven track record and also won't come cheap.

I think this whole 'backwater' thing is a total myth. I really think the club is ready to kick on and become a Prem club. 

[Riaz]

Total nonsense from the OP

Its important we get it right.

Last time we sacked a johnson, it was all downhill. This is a very important decision and i'm glad they have several candidates and they are taking there time.

I dont see CH as the stand out candidate. I just think thats something the fans have decided.

[BrizzleRed]

4 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think that's a bit of a myth. We're one season away from being a Prem club and being able to compete with clubs like those. 

I think actually our fanbase are pretty ambitious - we know Bristol is a large affluent city which has historically under achieved in a sporting capacity, we know our owner is wealthy, we've seen attendances improve and we are now regularly getting a healthy 20k under normal circumstances (feels ages since 14k was a good attendance under GJ), now the new training ground which looks a fantastic facility. 

The fans wanted LJ gone because they didn't feel he could take us to the next level - the club obliged. That's not the attitude of an apathetic club or fanbase. It seems we sounded out Steven Gerrard who'd have cost us several million in comp and wages. We're now looking at Chris Hughton who has a proven track record and also won't come cheap.

I think this whole 'backwater' thing is a total myth. I really think the club is ready to kick on and become a Prem club. 

You make some really good points PF, but apart from some brief flourishes, this club feels like a perennial underachiever to me.  

Maybe I’m just getting old and cynical, but with all this potential, you have to question why we’re still waiting after 40 years outside of top flight.

Let’s just hope this next appointment is the one that lights the blue touch paper and really launches this club ...... cue the announcement of Appleton!!!

[Northern Red]

11 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Total nonsense from the OP

Its important we get it right.

Last time we sacked a johnson, it was all downhill. This is a very important decision and i'm glad they have several candidates and they are taking there time.

I dont see CH as the stand out candidate. I just think thats something the fans have decided.

I do think he is the standout candidate, but not to the point where literally anyone other than him would be a massive disappointment as some seem to have decided.

[Red Exile]

21 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think that's a bit of a myth. We're one season away from being a Prem club and being able to compete with clubs like those. 

I think actually our fanbase are pretty ambitious - we know Bristol is a large affluent city which has historically under achieved in a sporting capacity, we know our owner is wealthy, we've seen attendances improve and we are now regularly getting a healthy 20k under normal circumstances (feels ages since 14k was a good attendance under GJ), now the new training ground which looks a fantastic facility. 

The fans wanted LJ gone because they didn't feel he could take us to the next level - the club obliged. That's not the attitude of an apathetic club or fanbase. It seems we sounded out Steven Gerrard who'd have cost us several million in comp and wages. We're now looking at Chris Hughton who has a proven track record and also won't come cheap.

I think this whole 'backwater' thing is a total myth. I really think the club is ready to kick on and become a Prem club. 

But on the other hand you could have said we were 'one season away' at many points in the past 30 years. 

I agree that the club is ready to kick on, but it was, in my view, ready to kick on a couple of years ago, or after GJ left, or, going back, after Joe Jordan left...but we didn't. I'd note that many, if not most, of our fans were perfectly happy with LJ long after it appeared that he was struggling...just hoping for one more winning run and a bit of incremental progress. I'd suggest that what has held the club back on each occasion was nothing to do with the supporters but rather a failure at the top to identify what needed to be done...and do it.

I'm hoping that ruthless decision making is what is taking the time now.

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, supercidered said:

I think maybe you have a point with some on here. However, I think a lot on here are really worried we as a club are going to f@ck up a massive opportunity. We have finally binned LJ which was a long time coming. We can now start afresh and with the right appointment move this beautiful club forward to the next level.

An uninspiring choice / option as Manager appointed now could see us moving in the wrong direction and quickly. An example of which would be Charlton Athletic. Nothing against Bowyer by the way. What I mean is a club sliding from top 3 to relegation in quick time. The Championship is unpredictable and savage and we need someone of CH's pedigree to navigate it.

Although the club is at its most attractive place in a long time (ever?), we aren’t quite the draw we think we are.

Just like a few have been saying, “Hughton won’t like being seen as no2 choice to Gerrard”, I doubt we are his no1 choice if other jobs suddenly become available.

As fans we might think we don’t want him if he wants to wait for other jobs, but that is our position in the market.  It’s the same when signing players.

We can rush and appoint someone we know won’t get a gig better than City, or we can try to get the best we can, whoever that might be, and risk he might go elsewhere.

Its a fine balance.