Other Manager Options (Merged)

[RedNachos]

1 minute ago, Monkeh said:

How do you know it isn't hughton making us wait?

That's a good shout, but given that the club are still in the interview process (the post) I doubt it.

[Calculus]

Doesn't surprise me on bit. Had the interview gone really well surely they would have appointed. Maybe they have some reservations about him. If he can get the Watford job good luck to him - we don't seem exactly keen.

[southvillekiddy]

16 hours ago, WayOutWest said:

Yeah I think you are mate. This process seems to be above your head. 

The club will interview. Then decide. Then announce who they have chosen. It will happen when it happens. How on earth can you criticise the club when you have zero facts. 

In the mean time, feel free to run around your front room, like a headless chicken waving your arms in the air shouting disparaging comments about Steve L. 

Thanks for starting a whole new thread on your view that you have posted on numerous other threads. 

Needy much?

 

It's an obvious process that a well run Club should relish and manage smoothly. They've had 4 years to consider Lee Johnson's peformance after inheriting SCs promotion and we all knew years ago that LJ was not up to it. Masses of time to line up the right person. Especially when there are qualified people immediately available. It was pointless sacking LJ at the time they did if they were not ready with the next one.

Can you manage all that?

[Red Exile]

13 minutes ago, spudski said:

It's been staring us in the face since he was employed. He's paid to make the decisions. SL isn't there day to day. He tells on MA to run the ship and report back what he see's.

Who else is MA accountable to? Only SL.

If MA isn't doing his job, then those under him have to go through him to complain to SL.

Odd choice though...apart from what appears to be a great deal of self confidence and ambition, and the ability to get a decent price for players, I've been unimpressed.

In at least one respect things are failing on his watch - communication. Rarely has it been more necessary to reassure supporters who may, or may not, be able to get what they consider value from the hundreds of pounds they have already invested in next season. Will they be able to attend, how will that work, who will be playing for us, who will be in charge? I appreciate that there are few answers but occasional reassuring words wouldn't go amiss.

[southvillekiddy]

14 hours ago, Monkeh said:

No he is just being an entitled idiot

You mean I'm entitled like Royalty? Actually it's the opposite I especially despise the rich and powerful when they are also incompetent

[southvillekiddy]

12 hours ago, Badger08 said:

If / when CH is announced, is there going to be a thread saying sorry to SL? Probably not. 

I'll be the first if he manages it

[spudski]

Just now, Red Exile said:

Odd choice though...apart from what appears to be a great deal of self confidence and ambition, and the ability to get a decent price for players I've been unimpressed.

In at least one respect things are failing on his watch - communication. Rarely has it been more necessary to reassure supporters who may, or may not, be able to get what they consider value from the hundreds of pounds they have already invested in next season. Will they be able to attend, how will that work, who will be playing for us, who will be in charge? I appreciate that there are few answers but occasional reassuring words wouldn't go amiss.

The thing is...we as fans will never know his failings.

It won't become public as to whether he failed to get players we want over the line.

We will never know whether any player that comes in will be first or last choice unless by deduction like Nketiah/Afobe.

MA has pretty much a free pass imo compared to the Coach.

[TonyTonyTony]

18 minutes ago, southvillekiddy said:

their present lack of planning and decisiveness with the current vacancy when they had ample time to set up the right replacement.

You've got a wild imagination. Do you run around at home like that?

Lack of planning : any evidence or is this just in your head?

Setting up the right replacement : how do you know they didn’t? Maybe the chosen one has other options / wants too much salary / wants to spend too much....

Do you run your home like that? Fantasy and spending other people’s money?

Melt of the highest order

[Monkeh]

10 minutes ago, RedNachos said:

That's a good shout, but given that the club are still in the interview process (the post) I doubt it.

I dont think they are in the interview process now,

I think they ether appointed or close to appointing someone, and we'll know by Wednesday,

Wish they will hurry up though 

[NickJ]

15 minutes ago, southvillekiddy said:

 

I can criticise the Club because of their poor record in signing managers during SLs time, with the exception of Gary Johnson and Steve Cotterill ie. 2 out of 8, plus their present lack of planning and decisiveness with the current vacancy when they had ample time to set up the right replacement.

You've got a wild imagination. Do you run around at home like that?

 

7 minutes ago, southvillekiddy said:

 

It's an obvious process that a well run should relish and manage smoothly. They've had 4 years to consider Lee Johnson's peformance after inheriting SCs promotion and we all knew years ago that LJ was not up to it. Masses of time to line up the right person. Especially when there are qualified people immediately available. It was pointless sacking LJ at the time they did if they were not ready with the next one.

Can you manage all that?

Very well said every word especially the bit about it being obvious Johnson isn’t up to being a manager with a lack of man management skills. Fair play sticking to your guns it’s very worrying that the people making the decision aren’t up to recognising that. 

 

[Robbored]

16 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

How do you know it isn't hughton making us wait?

Waiting for a better option?..........

[Red Exile]

18 minutes ago, spudski said:

The thing is...we as fans will never know his failings.

It won't become public as to whether he failed to get players we want over the line.

We will never know whether any player that comes in will be first or last choice unless by deduction like Nketiah/Afobe.

MA has pretty much a free pass imo compared to the Coach.

I thought this was interesting. Told me things I didn't know - quite recent, last December:

https://www.isportconnect.com/member-insights-mark-ashton-ceo-bristol-city-football-club/

For all his years in football he comes across to me as having very little real engagement with, or interest in, the fan base at Bristol City - which is odd as the supporters are pretty central to what makes a football club! Maybe I'm missing something.

Edit: however, given the control he's got, and given that LJ was clearly the preferred candidate of the owner and perhaps a different kettle of fish, this is a big appointment for Mark Ashton, a big test of his judgement.

[ChippenhamRed]

First of all it’s important to note we don’t really know what’s going on behind the scenes. But let’s assume for a minute that we are going through an extended recruitment process, which would at least appear to be the case.

I think it’s right to be diligent - but I also think it’s possible to be over-diligent to the point of being indecisive.

Recruiting a football manager isn’t quite like your average appointment in another industry, because we all know the candidates CVs before they walk through the door - we all have a fair idea about their achievements, the clubs they’ve been at, their playing style, even to some extent their personality. You’re not starting with a list of anonymous names you know nothing about. That should at least give you a pretty big head-start compared to an ordinary recruitment process.

Given that, it does seem almost bizarre that we’re sat here 4 weeks later still without a manager, and whatever’s going on behind the scenes, it’s undeniable that dither and delay risks losing a preferred candidate to another club. Particularly at a time when other clubs are making changes.

So as much as diligence is laudable, there’s certainly something to be said for striking while the iron is hot.

[marmite]

What ever the outcome the club, or MA, will spin us a yarn about DNA, the right fit, the right budget, the right time etc. Its what hes good at. Wether we believe it or not is another matter. Or we might get the right man now. God its frustrating being a City fan, even when the seasons over.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

1 minute ago, ChippenhamRed said:

First of all it’s important to note we don’t really know what’s going on behind the scenes. But let’s assume for a minute that we are going through an extended recruitment process, which would at least appear to be the case.

I think it’s right to be diligent - but I also think it’s possible to be over-diligent to the point of being indecisive.

Recruiting a football manager isn’t quite like your average appointment in another industry, because we all know the candidates CVs before they walk through the door - we all have a fair idea about their achievements, the clubs they’ve been at, their playing style, even to some extent their personality. You’re not starting with a list of anonymous names you know nothing about. That should at least give you a pretty big head-start compared to an ordinary recruitment process.

Given that, it does seem almost bizarre that we’re sat here 4 weeks later still without a manager, and whatever’s going on behind the scenes, it’s undeniable that dither and delay risks losing a preferred candidate to another club. Particularly at a time when other clubs are making changes.

So as much as diligence is laudable, there’s certainly something to be said for striking while the iron is hot.

Actually, it’s only just over three weeks, but still...

Maybe we know exactly who we want, but it’s taking longer than expected to land him?  Maybe the delay isn’t within the club’s control?  Maybe our preferred candidate is keeping us waiting...

[southvillekiddy]

10 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Lack of planning : any evidence or is this just in your head?

Setting up the right replacement : how do you know they didn’t? Maybe the chosen one has other options / wants too much salary / wants to spend too much....

Do you run your home like that? Fantasy and spending other people’s money?

Melt of the highest order

I'd say we should do what the top Prem Clubs do - decide who they want and head hunt. Sell BCFC's potential to them and make it worth their while. Can't see why it's so hard for you to see that spending serious money on a top coach and his team is a far better plan than wasting millions on duff managers and players, which is what we have done regularly under the present set-up.

And there's no need to be nasty with it Tony

[CodeRed]

1 hour ago, lou2BS7 said:

The landsdowns and Ashton are the boyfriend

lee Johnson is the girlfriend

After 4.5 years and a few happy memories, in amongst wider disappointment... the boyfriend felt that after several crossroads in the relationship it was finally time to part ways.
This boyfriend was a very loyal and fair partner and only thought it was fair to break up with the girlfriend before redownloading tinder and looking for a new girlfriend. 

this has left the boyfriend alone and rapidly going through all the profiles available and he will eventually settle for only person to respond at 2am on a Tuesday night. 

Nail on the head,

Steve thought he was going to be with Leejay for ever, he loved him so much, sometimes he used to drive over to the training ground just to watch him on the touchline and see the sun catch his hair in the sunlight.........he needs time to heal

[spudski]

9 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

I thought this was interesting. Told me things I didn't know - quite recent, last December:

https://www.isportconnect.com/member-insights-mark-ashton-ceo-bristol-city-football-club/

For all his years in football he comes across to me as having very little real engagement with, or interest in, the fan base at Bristol City - which is odd as the supporters are pretty central to what makes a football club! Maybe I'm missing something.

Yes...I've read that interview. 

One thing that MA is good at is bugging himself up.

He says communication is paramount.

Does anyone think his communication is good or could be improved? Does he delicate communication to others? Does he communicate more when things are going well? Does he put his head on the line when fans are at their least happy...or does he expect the coach to take all the flack and appease the media?

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

One thing that's become obvious to me, is that people think it's SL who's making the decisions.

Imo...it's not.

He's put Ashton and his son in positions of power...and it's them that are making the decisions and reporting back what's best for the Club.
very true.

I believe SL has his preferences, but trusts the aforementioned who have day to day contact to make the decisions and he uses them to prove or disuade his thoughts.

The most powerful person and imo, the one who has the biggest leeway on making the right or wrong decision without retribution straight away, is MA.

He imo has been put in a position of power where only SL has a decision to his future.

Any manager or coach is judged on performance or points.

We just don't know how good MA is at recruitment. Does he get in the players the Coach wants...or is it the 3rd,4th choices? Is the Coach going to openly or publicly complain? I doubt it.

this is where I disagree to an extent.  If LJ feels he is being undermined by his boss, then he either accepts it or confronts it with a “it’s me or him”.  If he’s confident he can win then he goes to SL.  I think LJ thought he was safe not rocking the boat.  I know people will say you don’t want to be out of a job in football, but if you’re that confident in your ability and you think the footballing world agrees, you take MA on.  He didn’t...that tells me a lot.

As it stands with our set up...Ashton is the main man with recruitment and negotiations. We don't need a manager...as he does that. We need a Coach. Anyone looking to coach and manage will not fit our system.

We need an employee that can coach and man-manage!

That...narrows who comes here.

Anyone coming here has to work under Ashton and agree to his system in place. That for me is the biggest stumbling block for any incoming coach.

Imo...MA has too much influence and not judged in the same way performance wise as the head coach is.

 

35 minutes ago, spudski said:

It's been staring us in the face since he was employed. He's paid to make the decisions. SL isn't there day to day. He tells on MA to run the ship and report back what he see's.

Who else is MA accountable to? Only SL.

If MA isn't doing his job, then those under him have to go through him to complain to SL.
or as above you bypass MA.

 

[AppyDAZE]

5 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

Nail on the head,

Steve thought he was going to be with Leejay for ever, he loved him so much, sometimes he used to drive over to the training ground just to watch him on the touchline and see the sun catch his hair in the sunlight.........he needs time to heal

Cue The Seekers - I know I'll never find another you

[Monkeh]

26 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Waiting for a better option?..........

if that were the case robbo, is he really the man to take over? Would his head be turned at the first job that became available?

Its almost as if the club need to do their due diligence......

[Red Exile]

2 minutes ago, spudski said:

Yes...I've read that interview. 

One thing that MA is good at is bugging himself up.

He says communication is paramount.

Does anyone think his communication is good or could be improved? Does he delicate communication to others? Does he communicate more when things are going well? Does he put his head on the line when fans are at their least happy...or does he expect the coach to take all the flack and appease the media?

It reminds me of working for a boss who is good at managing up...the people they report to think they are brilliant, those who work for them are less impressed. I think the comms at the club are awful...and are one reason why there is so much pointless circular debate on this forum! Endless efforts to fill in gaps.

[Chappers]

No great problem, it may well be that our preferred candidates are looking at other options. We have a large squad, focus on youth development and, at a guess, very limited transfer budget, which may not appeal to a ‘big name’. 

[spudski]

18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

 

The problem is Dave, if you go to the top and not through your CEO it causes problems that often can't be resolved. It causes a cancer of distrust. The point I'm making is the Coach is judged by the public and the pressure is more. The CEO doesn't have that pressure as his work is not public.

As for man management.. that's a given with a coach. My reference was to negotiating skills with agents, clubs etc, which is MAs job.

[spudski]

12 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

It reminds me of working for a boss who is good at managing up...the people they report to think they are brilliant, those who work for them are less impressed. I think the comms at the club are awful...and are one reason why there is so much pointless circular debate on this forum! Endless efforts to fill in gaps.

Very much so.

[Monkeh]

1 minute ago, spudski said:

The problem is Dave, if you go to the top and not through your CEO it causes problems that often can't be resolved. It causes a cancer of distrust. The point I'm making is the Coach is judged by the public and the pressure is more. The CEO doesn't have that pressure as his work is not public.

As for man management.. that's a given with a coach. My reference was to negotiating skills with agents, clubs etc, which is MAs job.

And he is good at it,

It would be better if he was less public

[spudski]

Just now, Monkeh said:

And he is good at it,

It would be better if he was less public

He's good at negotiating deals with our first or fifth choice?

[Matthew me]

Quite simply, we are too slow!!! Seven weeks until the season starts and we've taken four so far!!

They should have prepared a mental short list prior to bombing out LJ and acted quickly. Totally amazing how we've managed to drag this process on for so long!!

Madness, total madenss

[BrizzleRed]

41 minutes ago, spudski said:

The thing is...we as fans will never know his failings.

It won't become public as to whether he failed to get players we want over the line.

We will never know whether any player that comes in will be first or last choice unless by deduction like Nketiah/Afobe.

MA has pretty much a free pass imo compared to the Coach.

One thing we will know though after seeing that interview, is that it’s MA that should be accepting the blame for the piss poor communication with the fans we’ve seen during his time here. 

He likes to come out and grab some limelight when things are going well, but he certainly knows how to disappear when things aren’t so good.

As for the new head coach situation, while we obviously wouldn’t expect a list of applicants names, just an assurance that things are progressing and hope to have an appointment in a few day, this week, etc would help.  Instead we’ve had bugger all from him in the last few weeks.  

Cracking example of respecting the fans and will probably only hear from him again when he want’s us to donate next season’s ST money.

[Matthew me]

1 hour ago, Monkeh said:

How do you know it isn't hughton making us wait?

If he's playing games we should of moved on.

This is another Eddie happening all over again