Dolman_Stand Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 Looks like Bournemouth are considering legal action against Hawkeye for the goal not given to Sheffield United against Villa that clearly crossed the line but wasn't given, without that point Villa would have gone down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pride of the west Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 Sounds like something the gas would do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 I hope they don't. It's a terrible precedent. They're massively unlucky but, if Sheffield United had scored, the game would have played out differently. Absolutely no way to know what the result would have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coppello Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 Just now, Dolman_Stand said: Looks like Bournemouth are considering legal action against Hawkeye for the goal not given to Sheffield United against Villa that clearly crossed the line but wasn't given, without that point Villa would have gone down. That is bonkers if true. Like them or loathe them, that was one goal across Villa's 38 game season. There's plenty of dodgy decisions that go against teams all season, for example the incident against Palace. The decision againt Sheffield United is worth as many points as any poor officiating in August 2019. It was poor from Hawkeye but ultimately the VAR referees in Stockley Park should've picked it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Red Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 Nothing will come of this if they pursue it, apart from some lawyers getting richer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 That's silly. As others have said it sets a precedent. I dont particularly like Villa, and I think they could have handled that situation better by allowing Sheff utd to walk the ball in the net (would others have done it? debateable but after Dean Smith's situation with Leeds last season...) However Villa have been on the other end of some iffy decisions too. Arsenal's winner against them earlier in the season was a free kick and Arsenal had a man stood in the wall which isn't allowed this season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 1 minute ago, MarcusX said: That's silly. As others have said it sets a precedent. I dont particularly like Villa, and I think they could have handled that situation better by allowing Sheff utd to walk the ball in the net (would others have done it? debateable but after Dean Smith's situation with Leeds last season...) However Villa have been on the other end of some iffy decisions too. Arsenal's winner against them earlier in the season was a free kick and Arsenal had a man stood in the wall which isn't allowed this season? But that’s all decision based and human error etc this is a technical failure from Hawkeye which is the difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasbuster Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 10 minutes ago, Northern Red said: Nothing will come of this if they pursue it, apart from some lawyers getting richer. Just said on SSN that Bournemouth are “seeking compensation”. It doesn’t look like they are in any way challenging their relegation, more a case of some sort of payout from Hawkeye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, The Gasbuster said: Just said on SSN that Bournemouth are “seeking compensation”. It doesn’t look like they are in any way challenging their relegation, more a case of some sort of payout from Hawkeye. I still don't think they should get it. Maybe, if it had been a Bournemouth goal against Villa, I might feel slightly differently but ultimately Bournemouth went down because they were the third worst team in the division. I don't think they are owed a penny for a a mistake Hawkeye made in the forty-first minute of a game they were not playing in which may or may not have had an impact on the result. Reeks of utter desperation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud55 Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said: I still don't think they should get it. Maybe, if it had been a Bournemouth goal against Villa, I might feel slightly differently but ultimately Bournemouth went down because they were the third worst team in the division. I don't think they are owed a penny for a a mistake Hawkeye made in the forty-first minute of a game they were not playing in which may or may not have had an impact on the result. Reeks of utter desperation. But Hawekeye have literally peddled the gaol line tech as almost infallible. And then add their clearly bollocks explanation about why it didnt work for that decision. I'm not sure I entirely like it, but in any other walk of life if one company's **** up was partly responsible for yours losing 100+ million quid you would be all over them like a rash. Football ahs become a business and therefore is going to be conducted like one and that means brining in litigation when another companies failure impacts yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Spud55 said: But Hawekeye have literally peddled the gaol line tech as almost infallible. And then add their clearly bollocks explanation about why it didnt work for that decision. I'm not sure I entirely like it, but in any other walk of life if one company's **** up was partly responsible for yours losing 100+ million quid you would be all over them like a rash. Football ahs become a business and therefore is going to be conducted like one and that means brining in litigation when another companies failure impacts yours. It is not at all clear that Hawkeye's ****-up was at all responsible for Bournemouth losing £100+ million quid though. In the last minute of a game, maybe, but in the forty-first minute? Villa would have been 1-0 down at home to a team who went on to lose their next three games. Going in behind at half time might have meant Dean Smith approached the second half differently. They might have equalised, they might have gone onto win the game. Sheffield United's goalscorer might have taken his shirt off to celebrate the first goal since lockdown and got booked, then got a second yellow for arguing with the ref. Dean Henderson might have jumped up and down in celebration of the goal, landed awkwardly and sprained his ankle and Villa might have got five in the second half. We don't know. But we do know that, had that goal gone in, it would have been a completely different game. I do not see any sensible way to conclude with any certainty that Hawkeye's failure impacted on Bournemouth and you certainly cannot say that it had a direct impact, which is provable to a degree to require compensation. If AFC Bournemouth want to sue a company who are responsible for them being relegated and losing £100 million then they should probably be suing AFC Bournemouth. Not anyone else whose failures may or may not have contributed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 31 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said: I still don't think they should get it. Maybe, if it had been a Bournemouth goal against Villa, I might feel slightly differently but ultimately Bournemouth went down because they were the third worst team in the division. I don't think they are owed a penny for a a mistake Hawkeye made in the forty-first minute of a game they were not playing in which may or may not have had an impact on the result. Reeks of utter desperation. To plat devils advocate, I think they were probably the 4th worst team in the league over the course of the season. The goal, for which they’re seeking compensation was a goal. An absolute factual goal. There’s no degree of subjectivity, it’s a fact that it should have stood. All the VAR decisions are subjective and cannot be compared. They should have finished above Villa, but for that mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2015 Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 How can they prove that Sheffield Utd's goal would have been a final outcome of the game? How about Villa's defeat at Selhurst Park with a dodgy penalty? Bournemouth need to suck it up, they had a good 5 years in the Prem that most could dream of, this season they were just not good enough and were relegated. Maybe they should blame some of their players when losing 4-1 at home to Newcastle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 Why? That 1 mistake isn't the reason bournmouth went down, The poor performances, lack of goals and crap defending is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, Monkeh said: Why? That 1 mistake isn't the reason bournmouth went down, The poor performances, lack of goals and crap defending is Well actually... it is. That mistake played out as it should have and they stay up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 This is heat of the moment talk and when things calm down, they'll realise the futility of such action. Hawk eye will just claim a calibration error, no guarantees of an error free system etc. A bit like complaining about a ref making the wrong call. It happens, you moan about it and then move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, Fordy62 said: To plat devils advocate, I think they were probably the 4th worst team in the league over the course of the season. The goal, for which they’re seeking compensation was a goal. An absolute factual goal. There’s no degree of subjectivity, it’s a fact that it should have stood. All the VAR decisions are subjective and cannot be compared. They should have finished above Villa, but for that mistake. Yes - but my point is that the mistake happened relatively early in a 0 - 0 draw. I absolutely agree Sheffield United should have gone 1 - 0 up away at Villa in the forty-first minute and that the reason they did not was Hawkeye's mistake. I don't agree that saying an away team should have gone 1 - 0 up in the forty-first minute is the same as saying the away team would have won 1 - 0 were it not for that error. Had Sheffield United been 1 - 0 at half time, Villa would have approached the second half differently and made different tactical decisions and different subs. Nobody has any possible way of knowing, had that goal gone in, what the result would have been. Nobody has any possible way of knowing if they would have otherwise finished above Villa or not. If the goal had been given, it would have been a completely different game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2015 Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, Fordy62 said: Well actually... it is. That mistake played out as it should have and they stay up. And if that goal counted who is to say that game would have changed and Villa equalise and go on to win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, Fordy62 said: Well actually... it is. That mistake played out as it should have and they stay up. So their performances that put them in that place to begin with had nothing to do with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 24 minutes ago, Coppello said: That is bonkers if true. Like them or loathe them, that was one goal across Villa's 38 game season. There's plenty of dodgy decisions that go against teams all season, for example the incident against Palace. The decision againt Sheffield United is worth as many points as any poor officiating in August 2019. It was poor from Hawkeye but ultimately the VAR referees in Stockley Park should've picked it up. Firstly let me say I don't agree with Bournemouth's actions, and the precedent it could set. However, this wasn't a "dodgy" decision caused because of the flawed judgement of VAR or referee. It was a failure of the very goal line technology that was introduced to avoid exactly this type of incident. The problem is that the match official is conditioned to relying on the infallible technology to tell him if the ball crossed the line. without such an indication through his "smart?" watch, the referee allowed play to continue, as no other option existed. The flawed judgement, if it can be called that, is why no one thought to check anyone of numerous tv views that would have clearly showed that not only had the ball crossed the line but that the goalie should have been charged admission to the front row of the stand behind the goal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Dolman_Stand said: Looks like Bournemouth are considering legal action against Hawkeye for the goal not given to Sheffield United against Villa that clearly crossed the line but wasn't given, without that point Villa would have gone down. I wish Bournemouth would just go back to league 2 where they belong!!!! Seriously, if there is any truth in this, then I give up. The pro game has become farcical imo, tv cameras making decisions instead of officials, more substitutes than ever before ( they will allow teams to change all 11 soon) and just the wall to wall shite boring games that I’ve watched over the last 3-4 years. Non league football is so refreshing to watch nowadays, it’s proper football, football as I remember it. Non league friendlies start this Saturday, and I can’t wait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 Just now, Portland Bill said: I wish Bournemouth would just go back to league 2 where they belong!!!! Seriously, if there is any truth in this, then I give up. The pro game has become farcical imo, tv cameras making decisions instead of officials, more substitutes than ever before ( they will allow teams to change all 11 soon) and just the wall to wall shite boring games that I’ve watched over the last 3-4 years. Non league football is so refreshing to watch nowadays, it’s proper football, football as I remember it. Non league friendlies start this Saturday, and I can’t wait Its being discussed because of the financial implications, Unless Bournemouth go straight back up, then they will be in trouble, they don't have the facilities to continue to be a top championship club when parachute payments run out, There could also be a massive cull of players with many wanting to stay in the top flight, Out of the 3 coming down the only one best placed to go back up imo is norwich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolman Original Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 Lot of conjecture on here. Villa could well have come back. Just as Sheffield could have gone on to win 3:0. Think what’s being said here is that VAR has been sold as the be all and end all to solving dodgy decisions. In this instance it plainly cocked up and I do have some sympathy with Bournemouth. Do you believe that were we in their shoes (I know, we should be so lucky) we would act any different? I think Mr Lansdown would be on the phone to Quick,Grabbit & Run pretty swiftly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snufflelufagus Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 Wouldnt Villa have stayed up on goalscored even without the extra point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 16 minutes ago, Monkeh said: Its being discussed because of the financial implications, Unless Bournemouth go straight back up, then they will be in trouble, they don't have the facilities to continue to be a top championship club when parachute payments run out, There could also be a massive cull of players with many wanting to stay in the top flight, Out of the 3 coming down the only one best placed to go back up imo is norwich Bournemouth cheated ffp in the first place to go up. Ive zero sympathy for them, how can a club get away with a token fine for breaking the rules which led to promotion, get hundreds of millions of £££ because of that cheating, then complain about another team getting the rub of the green. League 2 awaits them........hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCulturalBomb Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 Life doesn't work like that. If Bournemouth got anything out of the game it doesn't mean subsequent games would have played EXACTLY the same to make them safe. It's like that TV show Tipping Point where at the end they show what might have happened if the counter went into the machine, because ultimately the variables in playing out said event are going to be different every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coppello Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 13 minutes ago, downendcity said: Firstly let me say I don't agree with Bournemouth's actions, and the precedent it could set. However, this wasn't a "dodgy" decision caused because of the flawed judgement of VAR or referee. It was a failure of the very goal line technology that was introduced to avoid exactly this type of incident. The problem is that the match official is conditioned to relying on the infallible technology to tell him if the ball crossed the line. without such an indication through his "smart?" watch, the referee allowed play to continue, as no other option existed. The flawed judgement, if it can be called that, is why no one thought to check anyone of numerous tv views that would have clearly showed that not only had the ball crossed the line but that the goalie should have been charged admission to the front row of the stand behind the goal! The VAR referees are allowed to overrule the goal line technology in the event it fails. It's obviously a monumental cock up by Hawkeye but Stockley Park is also there as a fail safe for the technology (technology in football protecting other technology in football!). Similar to any other incorrect on-field decision, the VAR referee should have announced that they were reviewing it despite the ball being in play. The supposedly objective Hawkeye technology failed as the result of the cameras being obstructed by the players in the box and the post. Apparently this was a freak event which has not happened in a game before. It's a bizarre scenario but I can't see how Bournemouth have any chance of being successful with their appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 Bournemouth could always spend some money on analysing why they went down - because they’re dogshit and lost 22 games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTonyTony Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 If this is case about a technical failure in the Hawkeye system they may get somewhere. A case about a dodgy ref decision / human error won’t go anywhere. That decision was shocking - I cant personally blame them for at least asking the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 51 minutes ago, 2015 said: How can they prove that Sheffield Utd's goal would have been a final outcome of the game? How about Villa's defeat at Selhurst Park with a dodgy penalty? Bournemouth need to suck it up, they had a good 5 years in the Prem that most could dream of, this season they were just not good enough and were relegated. Maybe they should blame some of their players when losing 4-1 at home to Newcastle. The difference is VAR is subjective decision making vs a technology failure not registering a goal, no subjective decision about whether or not its a goal it just was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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