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Dean Holden Short Listed


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14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

And @Taz too, as you also expressed your annoyance at Williams’ selection.

Holden had set out to play a back 3....he stuck with his 352 for every game.  Williams came back in as both Baker and Benkovic weren’t fit for Swansea, so all he had was Kalas and Vyner.  Benkovic wasn’t fully fit for Preston so started on the bench.  I like that he stuck to his system principles.

I think many of us thought Forest would be his last game, but in Holden’s system he needed him, so picked him.

If Holden gets the job, I can see Williams getting a new contract but as player-coach like Alby had...on significantly lower wages.

Didn't realise Benkovic wasn't fit to be fair ?

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21 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Yes....because they had quality backroom staff, it really is dependent on who are the assistants.  It works for some and not for others, it is a very inexact science

That’s my point, the crap being spouted is amazing really, it’s just right man, right time, right Club, and there is no magic formula or set criteria. Probably the most important thing right now is sticking to the current plan, and being fully aware of financial limitations due to COVID.

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33 minutes ago, Baldyman said:

Totally agree . There are wider issues particularly if faced with same options Re season tickets (refund/stream ) as this term. Appoint someone who will give the fans a bit of hope that we can take that next step  and more will stream . Appoint Holden then just sit back and await the refunds instead . 

Feel free, if we are limited, let’s have 8,000 SUPPORTERS In the ground, not a bunch of saddos endlessly whinging about Hughton at every bad pass/ missed chance.

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15 minutes ago, Chappers said:

Feel free, if we are limited, let’s have 8,000 SUPPORTERS In the ground, not a bunch of saddos endlessly whinging about Hughton at every bad pass/ missed chance.

At what point did I say that I would request a refund instead of a stream ? My point was that many would and that given the financial position right now , that could and arguably should be a consideration when deciding who the next manager will be . 

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37 minutes ago, Baldyman said:

At what point did I say that I would request a refund instead of a stream ? My point was that many would and that given the financial position right now , that could and arguably should be a consideration when deciding who the next manager will be . 

The only consideration is who the Board consider to be the right person based on a number of criteria. City’s financial position will not be good, In terms of cash flow, and nobody knows how long restrictions will be in place. 

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1 hour ago, Chappers said:

That’s my point, the crap being spouted is amazing really, it’s just right man, right time, right Club, and there is no magic formula or set criteria. Probably the most important thing right now is sticking to the current plan, and being fully aware of financial limitations due to COVID.

If there is a 'current plan' that is being followed I'm afraid I see little evidence of it...and if that 'plan' could accommodate the recruitment of the team coach as 'right man, right time right club', I'm not sure that would actually be a plan at all!

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If it is Dean Holden I think it disproves the board in what they say about sacking LJ because finishing out of the play offs is unacceptable. Also they possibly might be looking for a yes man more than someone who they think will take City to the next level. For DH it would be a great opportunity to show what he can do and to prove himself in management. For me this shows a big risk that the club is going to start moving backwards again but hopefully not.

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2 hours ago, Johnny Musicworks said:

No we will not all be doing one. Having supported City for well over 50 years I have never been consulted by the board/owners in the selection of a manager because I am just a customer. I have often disagreed with the choice of manager but I have continued to support the club regardless.I don’t support the club because of who the manager is and I am 100% not going to walk away from my club that the owners have transformed over recent years.
 

If Dean Holden gets appointed then I will back him as I’m sure will most fans whether they approve or not. There has been plenty of times over the last few years of people (mostly on the internet) saying they will walk away and yet attendances and season ticket sales have continued to rise. As supporters we can all be passionate, we can all be upset on occasions but one thing I can guarantee is that we will not all be doing one.

 

Clearly you take this forum very seriously. It was a figure of speech and perhaps a career in journalism is for you? Agreed, we will not ALL be doing one but I guarantee that if Holden is appointed crowds will reduce (if we are allowed to go in the first place).

Makes no difference to me as I already  bought my season ticket for next season. However season ticket sales are down for next season for obvious reasons and it is not outside the realms of probability to expect that quite a few who haven’t renewed won’t bother in the current climate if Holden is appointed.

Quote me if I’ve got it wrong otherwise enjoy your day being virtuous.

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Deano needs to prove himself first, but not by having a go here. He must do this somewhere lower down the pyramid, like Oldham, say. Before jumping ship from there before it goes tits up to somewhere a bit better like, say, Barnsley, and then leaving them in the lurch after they back him through a long, losing streak, and then we can look at him  ....... 

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Good endorsement from Aaron Wilbraham for Dean Holden.

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/18530618.bristol-city-coach-backed-perfect-candidate-bolton-job/

I agree and if he has taken his coaching qualifications I'd like to see Wilbraham back in a support capacity. 

Dean -  seems to favour good attacking football, he would probably give players like Walsh and Morell a chance, he sticks to a system and positions that suit players, got the best out of several players who were struggling under LJ and is highly regarded as a modern coach who puts on sessions that the players enjoy.

Versus

Alex Neil -  well-balanced posts from Preston fans saying the football is turgid and the team is set up to contain,  seemingly a dour manager who  favours pushing the rules to / beyond the limit (cheating) - wasn't SO'D enough of a misery for City to avoid another similar type for at least one generation?  Alex Neil even gave the SO'D trade marked  'stupid question' response back to one reporter recently.

In the absence of some known or unknown foreign coach  (step forward Mr Slot) who will take the Championship by storm with City playing free flowing winning football, or the likes of Paul Cook who got Wigan playing some nice attacking football, then I'd much rather see DH given a chance than Alex Neil.

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3 hours ago, Chappers said:

Fulham and Brentford both went for internal appointments.......
 

And so have we in the past - Keith Millen

Nothing against internal promotion, it's just that I'm mindful of BCFCs record

 

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14 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Clearly you take this forum very seriously. It was a figure of speech and perhaps a career in journalism is for you? Agreed, we will not ALL be doing one but I guarantee that if Holden is appointed crowds will reduce (if we are allowed to go in the first place).

Makes no difference to me as I already  bought my season ticket for next season. However season ticket sales are down for next season for obvious reasons and it is not outside the realms of probability to expect that quite a few who haven’t renewed won’t bother in the current climate if Holden is appointed.

Quote me if I’ve got it wrong otherwise enjoy your day being virtuous.

Whoever is appointed will probably not have a noticeable effect on crowds next season. We may well go an entire season or more with reduced capacity so it will be hard to tell. Granted Holden being appointed will not lift spirits amongst fans too much if at all unless results improve.
 

Maybe it won’t be such a bad thing to reduce expectation for once as it’s hard to see how we will be in any sort of position to challenge next season whoever comes in. This season was probably our best opportunity. It’s looking like we will lose key players and replace largely with emerging youngsters which is not a recipe for promotion but could serve is well the following season unless we just sell the best again.

Assuming we are not going to invest heavily in players then maybe having a manager like Hughton would be an unnecessary luxury and maybe Hughton is not attracted to the idea anyway. Our thinking next season for the first time in memory can not be governed by filling the stadium so big names will not really be a sound investment. Had Covid not happened all would be different but it has and we have to cut our cloth accordingly with players and management. 

There is a lesson to be learned from Chelsea who due to their transfer ban had to go with a manager and players they would almost certainly not have in usual circumstances and have achieved beyond expectations. 

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1 minute ago, Johnny Musicworks said:

Whoever is appointed will probably not have a noticeable effect on crowds next season. We may well go an entire season or more with reduced capacity so it will be hard to tell. Granted Holden being appointed will not lift spirits amongst fans too much if at all unless results improve.
 

Maybe it won’t be such a bad thing to reduce expectation for once as it’s hard to see how we will be in any sort of position to challenge next season whoever comes in. This season was probably our best opportunity. It’s looking like we will lose key players and replace largely with emerging youngsters which is not a recipe for promotion but could serve is well the following season unless we just sell the best again.

Assuming we are not going to invest heavily in players then maybe having a manager like Hughton would be an unnecessary luxury and maybe Hughton is not attracted to the idea anyway. Our thinking next season for the first time in memory can not be governed by filling the stadium so big names will not really be a sound investment. Had Covid not happened all would be different but it has and we have to cut our cloth accordingly with players and management. 

There is a lesson to be learned from Chelsea who due to their transfer ban had to go with a manager and players they would almost certainly not have in usual circumstances and have achieved beyond expectations. 

All good points. But if reduction of expectations is on the cards it doesn't help to have the club owner building them up year after year. And did we really get rid of LJ, a manager on a 4 year contract, in order to replace him with his assistant? 

I don't think Holden will get the job. It would be hard to understand if he did. And in a sorry tradition of deflating managerial appointments, which are followed by optimists saying 'give him a go!', 'maybe he'll be great!', 'quit moaning and get behind the team!'....who conclude months or years later that the realists were right along. I offer Tinnion and Millen as evidence!

 

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4 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Frank succeeded Smith, but both he and Warburton, (the previous 2 managers in this process) came from outside the club.

Brentford’s model is completely different from any other club at our level, they have no Academy, run a B team & use a moneyball transfer strategy with a huge emphasis in particular on the Danish football scene.

Far too many people glibly say “we should copy Brentford”, indeed The Post ran an article saying something along those lines this week, without ever bothering to try to understand exactly what it is.

Thinking their success is just because Frank was already at the club is an incredibly simplistic explanation.

Brentford are just one example, Eddie Howe started as an internal appointment in his first spell at Bournemouth

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4 hours ago, Chappers said:

Fulham and Brentford both went for internal appointments.......
 

Fulham and brentford had a style and laid the ground work

We don't have that we signed as many young players as we could hoping one would come good

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5 hours ago, frenchred said:

How do you know they are quality u til you try them?

I have idea of their competence by looking at the record of this football club over the past couple of seasons..........IMHO  Johnson, Macallister and Holden are all responsible for the poor tactics, formations and performances that have sent the majority of supporters to sleep over the past couple of years.  Personally, I would not let any of them near a position of responsibility.

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1 minute ago, maxjak said:

I have idea of their competence by looking at the record of this football club over the past couple of seasons..........IMHO  Johnson, Macallister and Holden are all responsible for the poor tactics, formations and performances that have sent the majority of supporters to sleep over the past couple of years.  Personally, I would not let any of them near a position of responsibility.

Believe me the coaches were led by Mr j. As soon as he was gone formation and tactics changed. He had typical little man syndrome and led everything

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Just now, frenchred said:

Believe me the coaches were led by Mr j. As soon as he was gone formation and tactics changed. He had typical little man syndrome and led everything

Nope they were part of the problem, why didn't they speak up and point out that it didn't work,

Why did we continue to concede schoolboy level goals when johnson was sacked?

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14 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Believe me the coaches were led by Mr j. As soon as he was gone formation and tactics changed. He had typical little man syndrome and led everything

 

13 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Nope they were part of the problem, why didn't they speak up and point out that it didn't work,

Why did we continue to concede schoolboy level goals when johnson was sacked?

Suspect the truth is somewhere in between.

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Dean did a decent job in a caretaker role but that’s what it was, a caretaker not as a long-term option for getting us to the Premier League.
 

We have tried the cheap internal appointment before with Millen, but at least I can understand why, given that Coppell had walked out 2 games into a new season, and Millen had done well in at least the last 10 games of the previous season.

This is different and the only reason I can see why we would end up with Holden is that others are either not willing to work under Ashton and his purchases, or they are too expensive for SL, given that they cannot guarantee promotion. However the latter seems unlikely given what he did with the rugby coaching set up.

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6 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

Dean did a decent job in a caretaker role but that’s what it was, a caretaker not as a long-term option for getting us to the Premier League.
 

We have tried the cheap internal appointment before with Millen, but at least I can understand why, given that Coppell had walked out 2 games into a new season, and Millen had done well in at least the last 10 games of the previous season.

This is different and the only reason I can see why we would end up with Holden is that others are either not willing to work under Ashton and his purchases, or they are too expensive for SL, given that they cannot guarantee promotion. However the latter seems unlikely given what he did with the rugby coaching set up.

Rather than the cheap appointment, perhaps the club have interviewed him and were impressed by the ideas he had to offer both in terms of going forward and perhaps from feedback he might have given as part of the end of season review. After all Holden came in and immediately changed the formation and by and large kept to the same team for the remaining fixtures which was the total opposite of LJ's tinkering, to what were immediately improved performances. To my mind this suggests that the previous set up towards the end was rather less than the picture painted by LJ of the assistant coaches working collectively and having the ability to question his decisions.

I don't immediately think that this would be a bad appointment, he knows the club, the players and the limitations that our budget creates (sell to buy). He's worked with Dean Smith and from what I've read he has the same management qualifications as Alex Neil.

Of course Houghton has proven success, although you have to question why he has remained out of work for so long, and Paul Cook does have results with working with a small group of players and on a limited budget, you can't question how he managed to get the results at Wigan to almost keep them up despite the off-field uncertainty which would have undoubtedly been in the back of his mind as well as the players.

I've got some sympathy with those making the decision here, what we are not aware of is some of the underlying factors, such as personal demands in terms of renumeration, the level of control required and whether the individual might wish to relocate (if you believe the suggestion that Paul Cook prefers to remain in the North), that might affect the view of those making the decision as well as those allegedly interested.

 

 

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