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Dean Holden Short Listed


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36 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

If we accept that we are indeed looking at managers which fit those categories - and as you say these are all names that have been mention somewhere - what does that tell us about the process? I mean, who would go into an absolutely predictable recruitment exercise (predictable in that at some point every manager is going to leave) with such an immense range of possible characteristics in play, having done no prior filtering? That reads like a list which almost every decent manager/coach in the world could be fitted into! No wonder it's taking so long.

That's true - I mean that's simply my guesswork based on the names we've seen rumoured trying to make sense of the Holden link. If i'm anywhere near right, it does indicate we don't have a 'type' we're particularly after and in theory any manager that can feasibly mould their style into our system could be a fit.

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27 minutes ago, Johnny Musicworks said:

No we will not all be doing one. Having supported City for well over 50 years I have never been consulted by the board/owners in the selection of a manager because I am just a customer. I have often disagreed with the choice of manager but I have continued to support the club regardless.I don’t support the club because of who the manager is and I am 100% not going to walk away from my club that the owners have transformed over recent years.
 

If Dean Holden gets appointed then I will back him as I’m sure will most fans whether they approve or not. There has been plenty of times over the last few years of people (mostly on the internet) saying they will walk away and yet attendances and season ticket sales have continued to rise. As supporters we can all be passionate, we can all be upset on occasions but one thing I can guarantee is that we will not all be doing one.

 

I think the point is that we all need a boost right now, what with the coronavirus, the fact that we can't attend games and also the capitulation in the second half of last season. Appointing Holden is hardly going to bring the feelgood factor back.

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16 hours ago, Mr Hankey said:

I hear what you are saying, but to quote another poster in the Paul Cook thread, i will suck my own cock & live stream it if it happens. It surely won’t.

This can not be allowed to happen.

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8 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

I think the point is that we all need a boost right now, what with the coronavirus, the fact that we can't attend games and also the capitulation in the second half of last season. Appointing Holden is hardly going to bring the feelgood factor back.

Totally agree . There are wider issues particularly if faced with same options Re season tickets (refund/stream ) as this term. Appoint someone who will give the fans a bit of hope that we can take that next step  and more will stream . Appoint Holden then just sit back and await the refunds instead . 

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2 hours ago, SX227 said:

But,but what about all the squillions Uncle Steve has spent on us?

 

Surely he can appoint who he likes.

After all, we owe everything to SL......

 

That was the attitude from some when it was suggested BCFC was a plaything for Uncle Steve.

 

Now Holdens in the frame, Lansdowns a frickin idiot, and everyone is after a ST refund.

 

SL will appoint who he wants and we can all do one.

 

His club. His land. His rules.

 

 

 

 

 

Calm Down Tim Robinson GIF by The Lonely Island

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24 minutes ago, Chappers said:

Fulham and Brentford both went for internal appointments.......
 

Yes....because they had quality backroom staff, it really is dependent on who are the assistants.  It works for some and not for others, it is a very inexact science

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I know we don’t really know exactly what’s going on so I’ll start with that caveat.

...BUT...

Why are we taking SIX candidates through to a second interview (according to GMcG)? SIX! You wouldn’t do that in any ordinary recruitment process. And in this case, you’ve already got a fair idea about the suitability of the candidates before you even meet them, because their body of work is there for all to see. You’ll even know a bit about their personalities.

This is beyond “due diligence”, this is a bizarre and convaluted process that risks not getting the guy you know you really want, and compromises the time the new man has to prepare the squad and buy players for the fast-approaching new season.

I’m struggling to make any sense of this delay and dither - even more so when Hughton (the obvious candidate) and Cook (a good candidate) remain in the frame.

Have we just become obsessed with procedure and lost sight of what we’re actually trying to achieve here?

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3 hours ago, Carey 6 said:

Holden playing Ashley Williams again as soon as he was back from his ban wound me up. 

After his sending off I never wanted to see him in a City shirt again, I worry that if Holden gets the job he'll actually be offered a contract. 

Let's not forget, the two teams we beat were terrible. Hull ended up finishing last & Boro finished 5 points above the drop zone. 

I also wouldn't keep him or McAllister on in a coaching capacity. 

And @Taz too, as you also expressed your annoyance at Williams’ selection.

Holden had set out to play a back 3....he stuck with his 352 for every game.  Williams came back in as both Baker and Benkovic weren’t fit for Swansea, so all he had was Kalas and Vyner.  Benkovic wasn’t fully fit for Preston so started on the bench.  I like that he stuck to his system principles.

I think many of us thought Forest would be his last game, but in Holden’s system he needed him, so picked him.

If Holden gets the job, I can see Williams getting a new contract but as player-coach like Alby had...on significantly lower wages.

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20 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Yes....because they had quality backroom staff, it really is dependent on who are the assistants.  It works for some and not for others, it is a very inexact science

How do you know they are quality u til you try them?

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25 minutes ago, Baldyman said:

Totally agree . There are wider issues particularly if faced with same options Re season tickets (refund/stream ) as this term. Appoint someone who will give the fans a bit of hope that we can take that next step  and more will stream . Appoint Holden then just sit back and await the refunds instead . 

They won't give you a refund because you don't like the appointment!

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14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

And @Taz too, as you also expressed your annoyance at Williams’ selection.

Holden had set out to play a back 3....he stuck with his 352 for every game.  Williams came back in as both Baker and Benkovic weren’t fit for Swansea, so all he had was Kalas and Vyner.  Benkovic wasn’t fully fit for Preston so started on the bench.  I like that he stuck to his system principles.

I think many of us thought Forest would be his last game, but in Holden’s system he needed him, so picked him.

If Holden gets the job, I can see Williams getting a new contract but as player-coach like Alby had...on significantly lower wages.

Didn't realise Benkovic wasn't fit to be fair 👍

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21 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Yes....because they had quality backroom staff, it really is dependent on who are the assistants.  It works for some and not for others, it is a very inexact science

That’s my point, the crap being spouted is amazing really, it’s just right man, right time, right Club, and there is no magic formula or set criteria. Probably the most important thing right now is sticking to the current plan, and being fully aware of financial limitations due to COVID.

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33 minutes ago, Baldyman said:

Totally agree . There are wider issues particularly if faced with same options Re season tickets (refund/stream ) as this term. Appoint someone who will give the fans a bit of hope that we can take that next step  and more will stream . Appoint Holden then just sit back and await the refunds instead . 

Feel free, if we are limited, let’s have 8,000 SUPPORTERS In the ground, not a bunch of saddos endlessly whinging about Hughton at every bad pass/ missed chance.

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15 minutes ago, Chappers said:

Feel free, if we are limited, let’s have 8,000 SUPPORTERS In the ground, not a bunch of saddos endlessly whinging about Hughton at every bad pass/ missed chance.

At what point did I say that I would request a refund instead of a stream ? My point was that many would and that given the financial position right now , that could and arguably should be a consideration when deciding who the next manager will be . 

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37 minutes ago, Baldyman said:

At what point did I say that I would request a refund instead of a stream ? My point was that many would and that given the financial position right now , that could and arguably should be a consideration when deciding who the next manager will be . 

The only consideration is who the Board consider to be the right person based on a number of criteria. City’s financial position will not be good, In terms of cash flow, and nobody knows how long restrictions will be in place. 

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1 hour ago, Chappers said:

That’s my point, the crap being spouted is amazing really, it’s just right man, right time, right Club, and there is no magic formula or set criteria. Probably the most important thing right now is sticking to the current plan, and being fully aware of financial limitations due to COVID.

If there is a 'current plan' that is being followed I'm afraid I see little evidence of it...and if that 'plan' could accommodate the recruitment of the team coach as 'right man, right time right club', I'm not sure that would actually be a plan at all!

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If it is Dean Holden I think it disproves the board in what they say about sacking LJ because finishing out of the play offs is unacceptable. Also they possibly might be looking for a yes man more than someone who they think will take City to the next level. For DH it would be a great opportunity to show what he can do and to prove himself in management. For me this shows a big risk that the club is going to start moving backwards again but hopefully not.

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2 hours ago, Johnny Musicworks said:

No we will not all be doing one. Having supported City for well over 50 years I have never been consulted by the board/owners in the selection of a manager because I am just a customer. I have often disagreed with the choice of manager but I have continued to support the club regardless.I don’t support the club because of who the manager is and I am 100% not going to walk away from my club that the owners have transformed over recent years.
 

If Dean Holden gets appointed then I will back him as I’m sure will most fans whether they approve or not. There has been plenty of times over the last few years of people (mostly on the internet) saying they will walk away and yet attendances and season ticket sales have continued to rise. As supporters we can all be passionate, we can all be upset on occasions but one thing I can guarantee is that we will not all be doing one.

 

Clearly you take this forum very seriously. It was a figure of speech and perhaps a career in journalism is for you? Agreed, we will not ALL be doing one but I guarantee that if Holden is appointed crowds will reduce (if we are allowed to go in the first place).

Makes no difference to me as I already  bought my season ticket for next season. However season ticket sales are down for next season for obvious reasons and it is not outside the realms of probability to expect that quite a few who haven’t renewed won’t bother in the current climate if Holden is appointed.

Quote me if I’ve got it wrong otherwise enjoy your day being virtuous.

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Deano needs to prove himself first, but not by having a go here. He must do this somewhere lower down the pyramid, like Oldham, say. Before jumping ship from there before it goes tits up to somewhere a bit better like, say, Barnsley, and then leaving them in the lurch after they back him through a long, losing streak, and then we can look at him  ....... 

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Good endorsement from Aaron Wilbraham for Dean Holden.

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/18530618.bristol-city-coach-backed-perfect-candidate-bolton-job/

I agree and if he has taken his coaching qualifications I'd like to see Wilbraham back in a support capacity. 

Dean -  seems to favour good attacking football, he would probably give players like Walsh and Morell a chance, he sticks to a system and positions that suit players, got the best out of several players who were struggling under LJ and is highly regarded as a modern coach who puts on sessions that the players enjoy.

Versus

Alex Neil -  well-balanced posts from Preston fans saying the football is turgid and the team is set up to contain,  seemingly a dour manager who  favours pushing the rules to / beyond the limit (cheating) - wasn't SO'D enough of a misery for City to avoid another similar type for at least one generation?  Alex Neil even gave the SO'D trade marked  'stupid question' response back to one reporter recently.

In the absence of some known or unknown foreign coach  (step forward Mr Slot) who will take the Championship by storm with City playing free flowing winning football, or the likes of Paul Cook who got Wigan playing some nice attacking football, then I'd much rather see DH given a chance than Alex Neil.

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3 hours ago, Chappers said:

Fulham and Brentford both went for internal appointments.......
 

And so have we in the past - Keith Millen

Nothing against internal promotion, it's just that I'm mindful of BCFCs record

 

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14 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Clearly you take this forum very seriously. It was a figure of speech and perhaps a career in journalism is for you? Agreed, we will not ALL be doing one but I guarantee that if Holden is appointed crowds will reduce (if we are allowed to go in the first place).

Makes no difference to me as I already  bought my season ticket for next season. However season ticket sales are down for next season for obvious reasons and it is not outside the realms of probability to expect that quite a few who haven’t renewed won’t bother in the current climate if Holden is appointed.

Quote me if I’ve got it wrong otherwise enjoy your day being virtuous.

Whoever is appointed will probably not have a noticeable effect on crowds next season. We may well go an entire season or more with reduced capacity so it will be hard to tell. Granted Holden being appointed will not lift spirits amongst fans too much if at all unless results improve.
 

Maybe it won’t be such a bad thing to reduce expectation for once as it’s hard to see how we will be in any sort of position to challenge next season whoever comes in. This season was probably our best opportunity. It’s looking like we will lose key players and replace largely with emerging youngsters which is not a recipe for promotion but could serve is well the following season unless we just sell the best again.

Assuming we are not going to invest heavily in players then maybe having a manager like Hughton would be an unnecessary luxury and maybe Hughton is not attracted to the idea anyway. Our thinking next season for the first time in memory can not be governed by filling the stadium so big names will not really be a sound investment. Had Covid not happened all would be different but it has and we have to cut our cloth accordingly with players and management. 

There is a lesson to be learned from Chelsea who due to their transfer ban had to go with a manager and players they would almost certainly not have in usual circumstances and have achieved beyond expectations. 

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1 minute ago, Johnny Musicworks said:

Whoever is appointed will probably not have a noticeable effect on crowds next season. We may well go an entire season or more with reduced capacity so it will be hard to tell. Granted Holden being appointed will not lift spirits amongst fans too much if at all unless results improve.
 

Maybe it won’t be such a bad thing to reduce expectation for once as it’s hard to see how we will be in any sort of position to challenge next season whoever comes in. This season was probably our best opportunity. It’s looking like we will lose key players and replace largely with emerging youngsters which is not a recipe for promotion but could serve is well the following season unless we just sell the best again.

Assuming we are not going to invest heavily in players then maybe having a manager like Hughton would be an unnecessary luxury and maybe Hughton is not attracted to the idea anyway. Our thinking next season for the first time in memory can not be governed by filling the stadium so big names will not really be a sound investment. Had Covid not happened all would be different but it has and we have to cut our cloth accordingly with players and management. 

There is a lesson to be learned from Chelsea who due to their transfer ban had to go with a manager and players they would almost certainly not have in usual circumstances and have achieved beyond expectations. 

All good points. But if reduction of expectations is on the cards it doesn't help to have the club owner building them up year after year. And did we really get rid of LJ, a manager on a 4 year contract, in order to replace him with his assistant? 

I don't think Holden will get the job. It would be hard to understand if he did. And in a sorry tradition of deflating managerial appointments, which are followed by optimists saying 'give him a go!', 'maybe he'll be great!', 'quit moaning and get behind the team!'....who conclude months or years later that the realists were right along. I offer Tinnion and Millen as evidence!

 

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4 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Frank succeeded Smith, but both he and Warburton, (the previous 2 managers in this process) came from outside the club.

Brentford’s model is completely different from any other club at our level, they have no Academy, run a B team & use a moneyball transfer strategy with a huge emphasis in particular on the Danish football scene.

Far too many people glibly say “we should copy Brentford”, indeed The Post ran an article saying something along those lines this week, without ever bothering to try to understand exactly what it is.

Thinking their success is just because Frank was already at the club is an incredibly simplistic explanation.

Brentford are just one example, Eddie Howe started as an internal appointment in his first spell at Bournemouth

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