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Dean Holden (Merged)


Bcfcbackwell

If we appoint Holden I will...   

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8 hours ago, Jacki said:

I’m still waiting to see who it is before getting too pissed off about all this. However, I work in recruitment and unless you are finding people for a huge corporate machine or a ludicrously process driven public sector organisation no smooth running recruitment process takes this long.

It seems to me that we’ve gone about this in a very haphazard way from the start. We don’t appear to have had a preferred shortlist of candidates or any kind of contingency plan for when LJ left the club. This seems to be borne out by the names we have been linked with... some experienced and proven (Hughton), some promising lower league (Lowe, Robins), and some decent championship managers (Cook). Either the press are completely wrong, or we have no real idea of the ‘type’ we’re really after as they’re all so totally different.

I think there is a real danger we could end up with Holden now. The reasons that could happen is if the people we’ve spoken to have walked away because they’re not happy with the budget, use of the academy or the way that Ashton and Lansdown want to do things with their ‘active interest’ in day to day operations. Holden knows how we operate and would most likely live with it, as this is the best and most well rewarded position he’ll ever be offered.

I sincerely hope I’m wrong in that, and that the board pull a rabbit from the hat in the next few days. It will be hilarious listening to Ashton pontificating about how Holden was first choice all along if it is him though....

And, fwiw, I’d rather have kept LJ than replace him with someone even more unproven. 

Many people criticise the ‘ system ‘ employed at City and say that no coach would want to come here under those conditions which is completely wrong. 
 

The modern game has so much at stake in terms of finance and the pressure to gain any small advantage over the competition that one man cannot do it all on his own .

All the top clubs use a head coach with others responsible for admin,recruitment , transfers, sports science etc .

Evidently the coach has a big say in recruitment but is able  to concentrate solely on the playing side, which must be great. Compare this to lower league clubs where one or two blokes fire fight .

 I don’t think we can criticise the club on one hand for being inflexible  with one system and then lambasting them for considering different options . 
 

The bigger picture is finance . What is our budget going to be over the next year or so ?
 

Are we going to get decent fees for our outgoing players ? Can we sustain the current pré-Covid wage structure ? When will the stadium reopen for supporters and will there be restrictions ? 


Nobody knows when the COVID-19 will give up the ghost and let us return to a semblance of ‘ normality ‘. 
 

Perhaps our targets are being unrealistic in these uncertain times. If announcing Holden as head coach means we can survive as a club then I will accept it. We could do a lot worse ( and probably will ). 

 

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5 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Many people criticise the ‘ system ‘ employed at City and say that no coach would want to come here under those conditions which is completely wrong. 
 

The modern game has so much at stake in terms of finance and the pressure to gain any small advantage over the competition that one man cannot do it all on his own .

All the top clubs use a head coach with others responsible for admin,recruitment , transfers, sports science etc .

Evidently the coach has a big say in recruitment but is able  to concentrate solely on the playing side, which must be great. Compare this to lower league clubs where one or two blokes fire fight .

 I don’t think we can criticise the club on one hand for being inflexible  with one system and then lambasting them for considering different options . 
 

The bigger picture is finance . What is our budget going to be over the next year or so ?
 

Are we going to get decent fees for our outgoing players ? Can we sustain the current pré-Covid wage structure ? When will the stadium reopen for supporters and will there be restrictions ? 


Nobody knows when the COVID-19 will give up the ghost and let us return to a semblance of ‘ normality ‘. 
 

Perhaps our targets are being unrealistic in these uncertain times. If announcing Holden as head coach means we can survive as a club then I will accept it. We could do a lot worse ( and probably will ). 

 

Good points and similar to @Bcfcbackwellcomments as the OP. I guess if the club came out and said the reason was due to financial implications caused by Covid would we accept that?

How likely is it fans will be allowed on grounds in any capacity , certainly looking unlikely this year, no commercial revenue either it’s a huge loss. 

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We have been told many times that the structure of the club has been created to allow for this type of continuity, so it shouldn’t really be a surprise. 
I have two points to consider, one negative, one positive. The idea that he should be ignored because “he didn’t stand up against LJ” is a poor argument. We don’t know he didn’t but  was overruled for a start, but if true it would be the equivalent of the second in command of a ship being chastised for not arguing with the captain.

On the other hand, I think the job may have become too big to promote from within, maybe we need to have higher profile people behind the scenes to maintain this continuity, the club craves.

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9 hours ago, Jacki said:

I’m still waiting to see who it is before getting too pissed off about all this. However, I work in recruitment and unless you are finding people for a huge corporate machine or a ludicrously process driven public sector organisation no smooth running recruitment process takes this long.

It seems to me that we’ve gone about this in a very haphazard way from the start. We don’t appear to have had a preferred shortlist of candidates or any kind of contingency plan for when LJ left the club. This seems to be borne out by the names we have been linked with... some experienced and proven (Hughton), some promising lower league (Lowe, Robins), and some decent championship managers (Cook). Either the press are completely wrong, or we have no real idea of the ‘type’ we’re really after as they’re all so totally different.

I think there is a real danger we could end up with Holden now. The reasons that could happen is if the people we’ve spoken to have walked away because they’re not happy with the budget, use of the academy or the way that Ashton and Lansdown want to do things with their ‘active interest’ in day to day operations. Holden knows how we operate and would most likely live with it, as this is the best and most well rewarded position he’ll ever be offered.

I sincerely hope I’m wrong in that, and that the board pull a rabbit from the hat in the next few days. It will be hilarious listening to Ashton pontificating about how Holden was first choice all along if it is him though....

And, fwiw, I’d rather have kept LJ than replace him with someone even more unproven. 

Hard to argue with any of that. Something has gone wrong in the process, in selection, at interview, in negotiation. Hopefully whatever it is is being sorted out behind the scenes. If after all this we end up with Dean Holden, lovely chap though he may be, it begs so many questions....

As for the suggestion that changing financial realities necessitate an internal appointment, well, nothing much has changed since we sacked LJ...which will look a ridiculous decision if we replace him with his unproven and lacklustre backroom boys.

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8 hours ago, BrizzleRed said:

You also counter with some good points Mr P,  but if we actually do go for DH in the end, why the hell did they even bother to sack LJ, and not just hold fire until the financial situation had improved.  

Potentially we will now have incurred all those costs of paying compo to LJ, just to swop him for DH and we’ll now also need to employ a new assistant HC too.

Cracking post Brizzle, what I have thought all along. Under LJ we would have continued in our yoyo championship state but would probably have not gone into the relegation zone and we as fans would have continued biting our nails as to when would we ever stabilise. Holden was 1/3 of a training and coaching team so are we saying he had zero input into LJ's weekly training ? I wait with baited breath but if DH is appointed, my faith in the hierarchy at AG will reach a big fat zero, and being a supporter of the club for over 62 years I think that my reactions will not be knee jerk as I have watched them over the years with only some years of great excitement !

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 The fact that we are now five weeks into this process with no sign of a conclusion indicates that things have not gone as planned.  

It now seems likely that our preferred candidates have turned us down and/or are not prepared to work under the conditions being imposed on them.

I am beginning to worry that we will end up with Dean Holden as the only one who is prepared to take the job.  We will then be  given a load of bullsh*t by MA who will state that Holden was always our first choice and was the outstanding candidate for the job.

I hope I’m wrong but the longer this debacle drags on the more concerned I become. 

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Good point raised about LJ - why sack him?  He must be wondering the same thing.

With Lee's experience gained at City he might have had his best chance next season of hitting the top six or higher.

The above point suggests there is no way the job will be Holden's.

Using the same logic involved with this thread I'd say it has to be Cook.  Promotions under his belt, Championship experience, and probably not requiring a large salary - plus he's a free agent.

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4 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Has anything actually happened to cause this latest bout of mass hysteria, other than the odds shifting a bit, which they've done multiple times in the last month?

12/1 to 1/3 is more than a bit?   Bookies do not often get it wrong..........I am  just hoping that on this occasion they have? ?

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2 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

Good point raised about LJ - why sack him?  He must be wondering the same thing.

With Lee's experience gained at City he might have had his best chance next season of hitting the top six or higher.

The above point suggests there is no way the job will be Holden's.

Using the same logic involved with this thread I'd say it has to be Cook.  Promotions under his belt, Championship experience, and probably not requiring a large salary - plus he's a free agent.

Yep Kev, we are talking ourselves out of Hughton ??

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1 minute ago, CyderInACan said:

Reminds me a bit of General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay Melchett in Blackadder. It's exactly the thing no one would expect us to do so that's exactly what we will do! Attack the Germans where their line is strongest! Baaaaaaaah. 

Lessons in Leadership by Military Genius General Melchett

Reg, you are obviously ITK, look out your back window, anyone on the roof ??

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2 minutes ago, oldstandrobin said:

Yep Kev, we are talking ourselves out of Hughton ??

Yep you're right - alas I reckon that good ship has sailed.  I can't see any reason why it would take this long to negotiate with a man who has been out of work for over a year.  

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1 minute ago, reddogkev said:

Yep you're right - alas I reckon that good ship has sailed.  I can't see any reason why it would take this long to negotiate with a man who has been out of work for over a year.  

Kev, I think the hierarchy watch OTIB all the time and at the start were thinking 'How are we going to break it to them we're going to Primark again ?' Lets do what we do all the time when we take on a new manager ( except SL's protege) and sit on the fence and let OTIB go into meltdown, fight among themselves, and then we can announce the YELLOW TICKET REDUCED new man and they will fizzle out without even a whimper. Why don't other up and coming clubs use the same tactics ???

Just now, CyderInACan said:

Shit. It looks like we are appointing a flock of seagulls! 

Not PC to mention Brighton and Hove Albion at the moment. Unless it is a sign ??????

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Will be easy to announce, just copy n paste LJ news story and change the name.

 

City’s chief operating officer Mark Ashton said: “Lee Dean is a very bright, intelligent young man who is highly motivated and very detailed in his approach. He’s well-known to the club; fans, stakeholders and staff.

“He is one of the up and coming coaches in the country and having interviewed him, I had no hesitation in recommending to the Board that Lee Dean is the right fit for this football club.

Lee Dean also has the advantage of knowing Bristol City very well and will be able to fit seamlessly back into Ashton Gate.

“There are substantial synergies in the way that we think and the way that we believe football departments should be operated.

“We’ll work together to build this football club for sustainable success.”

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/lee-johnson-appointed-bristol-city-head-coach/

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Absolutely convinced now that we’re waiting on the outcome of Fulham’s play-off Challenge. 

The around 7 days reference relates to whether they went out against Cardiff. The 10 days relates to tonight. If they lose Hughton goes to them as their manager replacement. If Fulham win, he’s ours. 

Not quite sure how I feel about being Hughton’s second choice mind.

If we don’t get Hughton due to Fulham’s failure to win promotion,  it’ll be Cook.

 

The only possible scenario for Holden is that Eddie is being lined-up but wants a month off to recover. Holden will continue the caretaker role until Eddie comes in.

All pure speculation but provides logic to what, superficially, appears to be total incompetence. 

 

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I think it will be incredibly disappointing if we end up with DH as manager (nothing personal against him), whatever way you look at it he was part of the LJ problem. we need to have a clean break away from the recent managers and need a strong manager one with experience, as if were lead to believe it has to be someone who has to bring on the younger players who better than an experienced manager... we surely cant keep going down the same route as before (millen, Tinnion etc) 

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6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

been watching a couple of episodes of Ozark and come back to OTIB to this thread. ???

Seriously though, I think Dean will have pitched a coaching staff that includes Ashley Williams, and possibly more involvement of Tinnion.  He used both in the 5 games he was in caretaker charge.

Certainly high up the priority list, and not gone risk that.

Here’s 18/19s:

B90019C4-9585-4E33-A8B1-DC708F764349.thumb.jpeg.2474fdad579797cfdff10cb4f36b1888.jpeg
 

if we don’t get fans back til new year and then 8k, then I think you’ll lose most (75-80%) of the match day revenue, half of your season card revenue in full refunds or part refunds as you won’t sell Robinstv at £500 like you woukd do a seat in the LS.  Commercial revenue will be down too.  Conservatively I reckon it could cost us £5m!

Yes, we will lose wages of certain expired contracts off the circa £30m wage bill.  And we will sell players too.

That will keep us stable....but where does the squad investment come from?  We have built up some contingency from previous years in terms of FFP....but MA says austerity for a reason.

Luckily (?) we are better placed financially than many other clubs.

This is the tough one.  I’m not in favour of Holden, but I can see it being much more than a red herring for Cook.  I think he is in with a chance if ducks don’t align elsewhere.  I’m obviously more open to it than most, but as you say, Ashton has sold us expectation.  He’s gonna have to be at his best to sell this one to 90% of fans.

Think the loss of revenue will be way over the £5m barrier, there will be little market to sell players outside the PL, L1 and below may not happen without fans, so no loan market for our fringe players.
The big change was Boris going from ‘All over by Xmas’ to ‘No more easing’, casting big doubts over the coming season. That immediately made me think DH was an obvious option. As for ‘it never works’, it did with Jordan, and has at many clubs, notably Brentford and Fulham this season.

In normal circumstances I’d prefer a new face, but it’s not normal, People dying, losing jobs, losing homes, and it’s really disappointing seeing so many posters throwing toys out of the pram. Now is the time to support your Club and whoever the new manager is. It may be that they considered him the best candidate anyway, or it might be that outside factors make continuity a better option. We will never know.

If it is DH, remember the wise words of John Lennon (Well, almost) -

“All we are saying is give Dean a chance”

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If we are seriously putting everything on hold just to see if Hughton gets the Fuhlam job we need our heads looking at. I want him here more than most but we shouldn't have to wait for him. I fear it's more to do with money/ his face doesn't fit more than anything else.

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2 minutes ago, Abraham Romanovich said:

Blimey,a bit left field but I suppose an 80's pop band couldn't do a lot worse.

A Flock of Seagulls van found after being stolen — but with ...

A few  lockdown haircuts on display there!

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