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Dean Holden (Merged)


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If we appoint Holden I will...   

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@TomThumb84 you may be a new poster here but take it from me who has been down the gate since 1958 (v Leyton Orient) you have an astute take on really what makes BCFC tick. It is sacrilige on this forum to criticise SL and yet, here we are again being the bridesmaids again. Well, I dont attend but a friend who goes to Senior Reds recalls when SL spoke at a luncheon just after Cotts took us up and he admitted he did not realise how much it was going to cost to keep us in the Championship. After all, he is an Accountant, they live by trying to keep the books balanced and certainly not by taking risks. He has bought real estate, yes that is what AG is, remember the days when it was the Home of BCFC, no longer, it is a beautiful stadium hosting Bristol Bears ( a Premiership Rugby Union team ) and Bristol City FC. Look at matchday's. No longer people drinking in local pubs but putting money into the Bristol Sport Coffers to sustain it with slightly !! higher prices for the fayre on offer. Yes, SL has made AG into a fantastic model for any aspiring club throughout the land and its Net worth in £££££'s has probably gone through the roof but what about why we go there ?????

We go there because we LOVE Bristol City, for Gods sake, 62 years going to AG, I must love them. But this is where it ends. I am sorry, but MA is a Salesman, look at other references to when he was at Watford. He has wrought himself so much power at AG that it may take a Crow Bar to get him out. Yes he's made transfer money for SL but at what cost. Look last night. Joe and Bobby back in the prem in White NOT RED shirts. It is beginning to look like we will make a non descript appointment as Head Coach and for people like me who really thought that when the new look Ashton Gate was finished, and Pat Lam made Head for the Bears, we would follow suit. Sadly like @Sweeneys Penalties, I think it will be a few more years eating humble pie and gazing in awe as other teams pass us by because we have an owner who will not bend on his policies of recruiting the best to lead us forward. I expect this will upset some but you cannot support a team for as long as some of us have and not see past the Emperors New Clothes !!

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10 hours ago, Chappers said:

Yeah, children moaning on the internet and competing to be the most outraged, whilst most intelligent fans accept the decision and move on.

We often berate Cardiff and Rovers fans for ‘lying down and taking it’. Whilst I wouldn’t have done the bedsheet thing, I understand where its coming from. The club leaked to Gregor, perhaps to test the waters, and this is the waters having been tested. Wouldnt have done it but ‘ti. Pot’ and ‘embarrassing are probably over reactions of their own. 

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3 minutes ago, Southport Red said:

We often berate Cardiff and Rovers fans for ‘lying down and taking it’. Whilst I wouldn’t have done the bedsheet thing, I understand where its coming from. The club leaked to Gregor, perhaps to test the waters, and this is the waters having been tested. Wouldnt have done it but ‘ti. Pot’ and ‘embarrassing are probably over reactions of their own. 

Sorry mate but Dean Holden is an employee of Bristol City FC, I do not believe the club would leak his name to a journalist to establish fans reaction. That is totally unacceptable and unprofessional. 

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5 hours ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

I don't believe I've twisted my own words but that's your opinion and your entitled to it. I've stated all the way along that Holden wouldn't be my choice. I just don't subscribe to the view that his appointment would be a guaranteed disaster or that Hughton for example would bring guaranteed success. Personally I've come round to the idea that Cook would be the best choice. 

We all know that all manager appointments contain risks. In normal circumstances appointing someone with a proven track record would appear the sensible choice. But these are not normal circumstances. There are no supporters in grounds so other than season tickets already purchased (such as mine) there is no major revenue stream. More so than ever then in weighing up the options account has to be taken of the state of the finances for the season ahead. I have no idea what the demands of any of the candidates are and what is deemed affordable but as I have no direct influence, whether I like it or not, I have to trust in the process that provides us with a manager that the club feel can take us forward whilst ensuring in these straightened times that I still have a club to support in the years ahead. If Holden represents that then so be it. I honestly believe that English football will be very lucky if all of the current clubs in the EFL survive next season. 

I agree with everything you say here. My point stands though which does bug me. 
That’s Lansdown’s statement  of intent ramped up peoples expectations. He’s created this backlash himself by whats he’s said. If he’d said.

We decided to part ways with lee because it wasn’t working but dean Holden is a bright young coach to take us in a different direction with his own ideas . In these uncertain times we need to make use more than  ever Of the academy etc etc, there would not have been this uproar. 
I don’t expect the club to comment every step of the way at all , but they’ve handled this really poorly imo . 

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6 hours ago, TomThumb84 said:

 

So, as unpopular as it is, City may be on the verge of making  possibly the most dissatisfying and underwhelming appointment of my lifetime? Why? Not because Dean Holden couldn’t do the job, if (and when) he is appointed he may be brilliant success, and I’ll wish him well, but, because, he’s not what was suggested, sign-posted, intimated or promised. It’s a customer/consumer world and trust is king. People have long memories and the words of Steve Lansdown and also the now diluted patter of Mark Ashton are on record re: proven guys/next level etc....

If it is Holden, how can that justifiably be a step forward from the previous regime, that he was not just a bit-player In, but a major part?;

Do I think this is unexpected? Nope. We have a habit of doing the same thing when we are in touching distance of the top level. Never more so than now.

The Lansdown era will perhaps be the period of time that will be remembered  by City owing him so much and not being able to do without the guy, but also being the man who couldn’t push us on despite his backing and therefore holding us back more than ever. 

Anyway I may make 5 posts before I’ve had enough but that’s my bit! 
 
x

 

 

You’ve supported City for 35 years.  You’ve therefore seen Russell Osman appointed, Tony Pulis in 1999 and, worst of all, Tony Fawthrop in 2000.  That was the most astonishing appointment in our managerial history, and one that had to be almost automatically rescinded in bizarre circumstances.

Dean Holden’s appointment would surely be more interesting than these!

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7 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

I agree with everything you say here. My point stands though which does bug me. 
That’s Lansdown’s statement  of intent ramped up peoples expectations. He’s created this backlash himself by whats he’s said. If he’d said.

We decided to part ways with lee because it wasn’t working but dean Holden is a bright young coach to take us in a different direction with his own ideas . In these uncertain times we need to make use more than  ever Of the academy etc etc, there would not have been this uproar. 
I don’t expect the club to comment every step of the way at all , but they’ve handled this really poorly imo . 

I don’t agree the club has to comment on every media story but it does appear we made a move for Gerrard and were willing to pay a significant salary to him (most media outlets were reporting this) if this was not true then I believe the club should have said we’re not interested in him. As for Hughton, Cook , Neil etc that’s pure speculation and I don’t believe the club should comment on this 

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14 minutes ago, daored said:

Sorry mate but Dean Holden is an employee of Bristol City FC, I do not believe the club would leak his name to a journalist to establish fans reaction. That is totally unacceptable and unprofessional. 

Totally unacceptable and unprofessional it may well be but I wouldn’t put it past the board. The fact Dean Holden is even being considered speaks volumes about what they think to be acceptable and professional in itself..

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2 minutes ago, daored said:

I don’t agree the club has to comment on every media story but it does appear we made a move for Gerrard and were willing to pay a significant salary to him (most media outlets were reporting this) if this was not true then I believe the club should have said we’re not interested in him. As for Hughton, Cook , Neil etc that’s pure speculation and I don’t believe the club should comment on this 

I did say , they shouldn’t comment on everything. It seems pretty common knowledge by the media outlets that broke the news Hughton had the job that he was spoken to. As I said SL has done more harm than good in what he said. 

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Just now, bris red said:

Totally unacceptable and unprofessional it may well be but I wouldn’t put it past the board. The fact Dean Holden is even being considered speaks volumes about what they think to be acceptable and professional in itself..

There’s a difference between an opinion of whether Holden is suitable for the role - that’s subjective. 
To put an existing employees name out to local media to gage fans opinion is unacceptable and unprofessional. There are ways to gage fans views - we have a supporters liaison officer , we have a supporters trust - opinion could be taken from these privately 

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As @Red-Robbo said a page or two ago, I have no idea why people think our club is suddenly competent enough to be capable of some intricate and devious scheme to temper fan expectations.

I'd guess that the people Gregor talks to are probably speculating as we are, especially when he said the players haven't even been told yet. There are probably rumours and misinformation flying around the staff at the club as much as there is on here!

Looking back as his tweet he basically says "Holden still in the mix" and "back room staff being discussed" - and that's about it from what I can see. I still remain hopeful we'll end up with at least Cook.

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It should be Holden. All this let’s offer Hughton Gerrard Cook etc whatever they want is madness. City like everyone else will have to reign finances and expectations in a bit. Look at Wigan and Wednesday Bury Bolton and Macclesfield. Is that the future?

City of all clubs, remember the 80s, should tread warily.

The Gravy Train with Biscuit Wheels has hit the buffers.
 

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I think the most worrying thing for me is Holden had the chance to impress and he really didn't. 

The only thing tactically we seemed to change was to play 3-5-2. We still didn't seem to have a plan of such or am identified style of play. Was all very similar to a LJ side to be honest.

We won the 2 games against poor opposition mainly thanks to individual brilliance from Pato. Something which we probably can't rely on all season. 

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There are many things I don’t understand about this convoluted saga, but one is why people believe Holden might be appointed as a cost saving measure because of Covid 19. He would be cheaper than Gerrard and Hughton but he won’t work for free. If, for example, he was offered £10k per week less than Hughton that’s “only” £520k per year. A lot of money for me but peanuts in the scheme of things for City. Particularly when the aim is to reach the Premier League where the big money is. The new manager may have to work with a small budget but there are experienced managers available who have previously worked with a small budget - eg Mick McCarthy 

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1 hour ago, soultrader said:

According to the Post Holden is on a short family break, which is delaying the announcement

 

 

I'm not sure that was how it was reported.  It stated Holden is on holiday this week but nothing about this is the reason things are delayed?  Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

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29 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

I agree with everything you say here. My point stands though which does bug me. 
That’s Lansdown’s statement  of intent ramped up peoples expectations. He’s created this backlash himself by whats he’s said. If he’d said.

We decided to part ways with lee because it wasn’t working but dean Holden is a bright young coach to take us in a different direction with his own ideas . In these uncertain times we need to make use more than  ever Of the academy etc etc, there would not have been this uproar. 
I don’t expect the club to comment every step of the way at all , but they’ve handled this really poorly imo . 

I fully agree that the club could have handled this saga better. PR is certainly not a strong point of either MA or JL and much improvement is needed on this front. I had hoped they had started to turn a corner with the appointment of a well respected SLO in Jerry. Perhaps they could have fed more through him. 

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6 hours ago, EnderMB said:

I'd say a better analogy is this:

If you worked for a manager that consistently made bad decisions, and refused to fix long-standing problems over implementing cheap solutions, would you leave?

In this scenario, the manager is the owner, and the employees are the players and fans.

It's no wonder why we sell players, and it'll be no wonder why we may potentially have to sell in this window if we hire Holden. As I've said elsewhere, it's a statement, and if a player has been pushed to sign for us on the promise of making it to the Premier League they'll certainly rethink that statement.

Your analogy is flawed because football is not the same as any work place I know. It's damn difficult to sack football players and fans are not employees, they are more like shareholders (who's only power is to not attend matches or not to buy season tickets if they are unhappy).

 

36 minutes ago, soultrader said:

According to the Post Holden is on a short family break, which is delaying the announcement

 

 

The Post is like a game of freckles with a shit sandwich. Smack the top of the sandwich and you know it will hit some of the targets.

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2 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

I can’t help but feel this has been leaked to press to be the medicine before the sugar (Cook) is administered. 

Not everyone is sold on Cook (I am) but after hearing we’re close to appointing DH, PC will be like us announcing Pep. 

Unfortunately that doesn't make sense to me.

Cook might not be everyone's first choice from the well known names bandied around in the media but looking at his record no City fan could complain if he was appointed.

Why would the board need to put on this ridiculous facade when the appointment of Cook would surely be more than satisfactory to most?

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20 minutes ago, mozo said:

The two candidates still waiting is a fascinating tidbit.

What this demonstrates to me is the extent to which people do indeed know a great deal about what is going on. The reason Gregor isn't naming names isn't that he doesn't know them! It's almost impossible to keep a lid on something as public as the appointment of a football manager for week after week. Lots of individuals are involved, and they talk. 

If just you read OTIB closely and pay attention to the track record of those posting you can piece a story together...perhaps the story. This much seems plausible, but no one is going to go on the record and confirm it: 'We have interviewed candidates whose names have been in the press but we've not been able to reach a deal with them. Control is an issue. Things remain unresolved. These are higher profile, more experienced, candidates who would send an ambitious signal, but they won't yet agree. Holden suddenly looks an attractive option because he is immediately available and will fit in.'

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The only thing I can say about the situation is that the club, as ever, are very. very good at keeping things close to their chest.

I think this is reflected in the way the bookies odds have fluctuated wildly from one candidate to another and even back again, based, it would appear, on little more than speculation by the press and fans’ on here, but nothing in the way of leaks or even hints from the club itself.

Accordingly, it could still be any one of a number of candidates that is appointed. However, unless there is a specific reason ( legal or practical) why the announcement has had to be delayed,  my worry is that if the club are genuinely undecided and have been unable to come to a decision then the “better” candidates are increasingly likely to say forget it, if they feel the club isn't able to handle it’s major recruitment any better than this and might even have already done so.

Holden may well be the chosen man, and might do a very good job, but if he is  then the longer this is taking, the more it will feel like after the Lord Mayor’s show.

 

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