Dean Holden (Merged)

[!james]

16 minutes ago, Finley_Smith10 said:

If this actually happens I can’t even imagine the uproar it will cause, think there will be more then just bedsheets up on the fence 

Genuine question, what type of uproar are you expecting? 

[Southport Red]

5 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

You don’t mean ... duvets???

Actually, for all,the angst and torment on this forum, I think you’ll find that the average City fan will get get on with life, accept the fact of whatever appointment is made, and see how things turn out.  In the last few years people have had to accept Trump, Brexit, Johnson and Coronavirus; I’m sure Bristol City fans can cope with a disappointing managerial appointment without collectively opening a vein.  There are a lot worse things that could be happening.

People won’t open a vein but, if City lose first three games, the following is possible

Big name is coach people think “it will take a while for the to get used to his methods, I will stick with it, he has a track record, I will buy the new shirt”.  

DH is coach, people think “DH is out of his depth, team is suffering because of SL vanity, he’s not getting my new shirt money”.

All subjective of course, but then, most things are  

 

[Southport Red]

Just now, Southport Red said:

 

 

1 minute ago, !james said:

Genuine question, what type of uproar are you expecting? 

More ‘Death of a thousand cuts’ as apathy/antipathy sets in, rather than uproar. 

[kevster3]

11 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

You don’t mean ... duvets???

Actually, for all,the angst and torment on this forum, I think you’ll find that the average City fan will get get on with life, accept the fact of whatever appointment is made, and see how things turn out.  In the last few years people have had to accept Trump, Brexit, Johnson and Coronavirus; I’m sure Bristol City fans can cope with a disappointing managerial appointment without collectively opening a vein.  There are a lot worse things that could be happening.

And that is why the club always shit on us

[Finley_Smith10]

1 minute ago, !james said:

Genuine question, what type of uproar are you expecting? 

Uproar as in twitter (if you have it) is non stop slating the board and Gregor atm, I can expect that to get a lot worse if this is actually happening, as well as thousands of people not bothering with season tickets and pressure being on Holden straight from the off, this appointment has too many cons compared to pros and when Hughton’s there waiting for a phone call and to go with Holden is embarrassing 

[Bobbie]

20 minutes ago, Finley_Smith10 said:

If this actually happens I can’t even imagine the uproar it will cause, think there will be more then just bedsheets up on the fence 

Maybe on here. In the real world people might mutter their disappointment to some mates and then get on with supporting their club. 

[Finley_Smith10]

13 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

You don’t mean ... duvets???

Actually, for all,the angst and torment on this forum, I think you’ll find that the average City fan will get get on with life, accept the fact of whatever appointment is made, and see how things turn out.  In the last few years people have had to accept Trump, Brexit, Johnson and Coronavirus; I’m sure Bristol City fans can cope with a disappointing managerial appointment without collectively opening a vein.  There are a lot worse things that could be happening.

That’s why nothing will change, we’ve been told premier league is the ambition and we’re employing a manager to take us to the next level...we then end up with Dean Holden who was assistant to LJ who failed aswell as play some of the worst football I’ve saw down Ashton Gate

[citywest30]

48 minutes ago, Finley_Smith10 said:

Gregor saying Holden has a ‘pretty high’ percentage of getting the job from ‘what we’re hearing’ so guess it’s nearly done

Is this a new story today from Gregor?

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

Just now, Southport Red said:

People won’t open a vein but, if City lose first three games, the following is possible

Big name is coach people think “it will take a while for the to get used to his methods, I will stick with it, he has a track record, I will buy the new shirt”.  

DH is coach, people think “DH is out of his depth, team is suffering because of SL vanity, he’s not getting my new shirt money”.

All subjective of course, but then, most things are  

 

Yes, I agree that if things go badly there will be a collective reaction, but not the mass revolt that some are suggesting.  But the club’s explanation of any appointment is going to be very interesting and will shed light on the thinking behind it, and then we will need to give whoever gets the job a decent chance to make a success of it (more than three games).  But next season is clearly going to be no ordinary season and for many clubs survival may be more of an issue than promotion.  I see no reason to think that appointing Holden would be any more disastrous than, for instance, appointing Keith Millen, who actually did quite well in his first season, and I suspect that there will be clubs with more problems than us who will struggle more than we will.

[Finley_Smith10]

2 minutes ago, citywest30 said:

Is this a new story today from Gregor?

A fan asked him what’s the percentage of Holden coming in which that was Gregors reply, was about 7 o’clock this morning 

[Dredd]

The delay now has to be the club waiting for Holden to get back off holiday to announce him right? Given the uproar this week if it was someone else they would have just announced it surely

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

5 minutes ago, kevster3 said:

And that is why the club always shit on us

“They always shit on us”?  Really?  I’ve quite enjoyed the last few seasons and have been impressed by just how much the club has been prepared to invest.  Maybe I’m out of step with the majority, but I certainly don’t feel shat  on, and I most certainly don’t feel always shat on.  I’ve spent my life supporting City and I’m very happy to continue doing so.

[Red Exile]

5 minutes ago, Southport Red said:

 

More ‘Death of a thousand cuts’ as apathy/antipathy sets in, rather than uproar. 

This is exactly what happens. We can all only speak for ourselves. I might go to 30/40 games in a season - or far less...it's a long trek. I watched just 1 in the whole of SOD's tenure so uninspiring was the offer (fortunately it was the Rovers match).

The number of virtue signalling posters always surprises me. 

'I'm a super-fan...look at me!'

[Numero Uno]

13 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

You don’t mean ... duvets???

Actually, for all,the angst and torment on this forum, I think you’ll find that the average City fan will get get on with life, accept the fact of whatever appointment is made, and see how things turn out.  In the last few years people have had to accept Trump, Brexit, Johnson and Coronavirus; I’m sure Bristol City fans can cope with a disappointing managerial appointment without collectively opening a vein.  There are a lot worse things that could be happening.

The problem with this potential appointment is not the appointment itself but the reaction once people have seen how things turn out, if things have clearly turned out badly.

I think you may be underestimating the reaction in the 2021-22 season unless Dean hits the ground running. You’ve got to remember that a large percentage of people will have a lot less disposable income when the next round of season ticket sales occurs.

This is an unnecessary gamble by the three wise men in my view and one I believe will bite them in the arse over time. Such an appointment will show firmly what type of club we are and if the owner doesn’t give a toss don’t expect the fans to give a toss either.

[milo1111]

6 hours ago, Lrrr said:

Any reason you say this? He’s used to having players sold regularly and doesn’t get much of an option who to bring in because of finances, moving to us he essentially works the same system with a higher budget and players Preston can’t afford 

Because I suspect even though he hasn’t got much of a budget he at least gets the final say on who comes in as long as they are cheap and the Preston board are willing to fund it.

Here I don’t think the manager gets the final say on incomings. Far from it. Even LJ hinted at it this season.

[supercidered]

3 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Yes, I agree that if things go badly there will be a collective reaction, but not the mass revolt that some are suggesting.  But the club’s explanation of any appointment is going to be very interesting and will shed light on the thinking behind it, and then we will need to give whoever gets the job a decent chance to make a success of it (more than three games).  But next season is clearly going to be no ordinary season and for many clubs survival may be more of an issue than promotion.  I see no reason to think that appointing Holden would be any more disastrous than, for instance, appointing Keith Millen, who actually did quite well in his first season, and I suspect that there will be clubs with more problems than us who will struggle more than we will.

Whatever the Club's explanation, the question is... Will we believe it? We have been fed a load of rubbish even before LJ's sacking and then it got worse and then complete silence.

If we are setting the bar at there are Clubs with more problems and will struggle more then us then that in my opinion is even worse. The current state of football means this is an opportunity to grasp by the throat. Not to take shelter and go safe.

[kevster3]

4 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

“They always shit on us”?  Really?  I’ve quite enjoyed the last few seasons and have been impressed by just how much the club has been prepared to invest.  Maybe I’m out of step with the majority, but I certainly don’t feel shat  on, and I most certainly don’t feel always shat on.  I’ve spent my life supporting City and I’m very happy to continue doing so.

I have supported city for 65 years,and yes Lansdown has invested millions,but as a tax exile he can afford it,and since his tenure,fans are treated with total disregard.

[cityexile]

Assuming it is Holden, I wish him well, but blimey, this can not be anywhere near where we expected to end up after five weeks.

There simply is no more important single post in the club. What is the point of spending millions on players unless somebody has the experience to get the best out of them?  It’s like me spending £1,000 on a bike - yes it’s nice and all but I am still going to puff and wheeze on it.

All the evidence points to us having had strong experienced candidates. I do not buy the Covid excuse at all, if anything that is even more reason to go for experience over a risk. We clearly have not been able to close the deal on any of those with experience. Gut feel, not to do with their personal wage demands but they would not buy in to ‘the system’. This just all feels like DH is the only one left standing after we have tried everyone else. Even know it still feels we are hoping somebody else sees the error of their ways at the last moment.

It puts DH under huge pressure from day 1. Still have my full support of course, but a huge risk and hugely hugely disappointing.

[citywest30]

11 minutes ago, Finley_Smith10 said:

A fan asked him what’s the percentage of Holden coming in which that was Gregors reply, was about 7 o’clock this morning 

Oh right. Fair enough. Couldn't see it anywhere on his twitter or on the BEP site but then I don't use twitter so wouldnt really know where to look. Looked like his last twitter was still about Lemonhaigh-Evans.

[Southport Red]

I am just tired of Bristol City being ‘Manager University’ a place where bright young things can do their apprenticeships. Is it too much to ask that we get a manager who has actually achieved in the past?  IIRC, the last manGer we had with a promotion on his CV was Danny Wilson. 

[milo1111]

5 hours ago, Olé said:

SL made his comments on July 9th, FOUR MONTHS after the start of the lockdown to football. If anyone thinks an astute finance expert like SL after four months hadn't already established sensitivity analysis for worst case scenarios, they really are implying astounding levels of SL ineptitude in the rush, of all things, to defend him!

For half that time he didn't even have certainty the season would return nor the mechanism the club employed  using Robins TV to retain booked revenue. So the position on July 9th was better than the worst COVID impact SL must have already contemplated and therefore he was quite prepared when he talked LJ's replacement.

I have no issue with people preaching financial prudence, but there is no basis to give SL a pass on this, if we appoint Holden his comments were pure lip service - he claims an objective but always reverts to type to hire inexperienced people to achieve it. It's not even a money issue as he'll throw signings at them to make it work.

And in regard to "losses on and off the field", it is the Chief Executive of the organisation's job to ensure those impacts are fully costed and a new projection is issued. From lockdown to SL's comments MA earned at least £117k (on 2018 figures, with his voluntary 20% cut) - if SL didn't have clear figures, what is he paying MA for?

Absolutely superb post. This is why appointing Holden will be the final nail in the coffin for some of us.

[ChippenhamRed]

3 minutes ago, supercidered said:

Whatever the Club's explanation, the question is... Will we believe it? We have been fed a load of rubbish even before LJ's sacking and then it got worse and then complete silence.

If we are setting the bar at there are Clubs with more problems and will struggle more then us then that in my opinion is even worse. The current state of football means this is an opportunity to grasp by the throat. Not to take shelter and go safe.

When you spend five weeks on a convoluted recruitment process and end up with the bloke who was there putting out the cones when you started, very clearly the club has comprehensively failed.

No amount of bullshit spin from Ashton is going to dress that up and you’d be a fool to believe him if he tries to tell us Holden was “the outstanding candidate” or any sort of bollocks like that.

This will destroy trust between board and supporters and Ashton will lose all credibility to talk about ambition, if it happens. Reason enough to appoint pretty much anyone else ahead of Holden.

[ReggyRed]

If true what an embarrassing appointment.

if it was about lack of money (which it quite clearly isn’t) then I’d much rather have someone like Ryan Lowe who wouldn’t cost hardly anything.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

7 minutes ago, kevster3 said:

I have supported city for 65 years,and yes Lansdown has invested millions,but as a tax exile he can afford it,and since his tenure,fans are treated with total disregard.

That’s just not true.  Did you feel treated with total disregard when the ground was developed?  I feel that fans are valued more now than they’ve ever been - if you’ve been supporting City for 65 years you’ll remember that fans used to count for absolutely NOTHING in terms of having any kind of input into how the club is run - but the digital age has given people a false sense of the importance of their input.  But don’t tell me that Lansdown has had less regard for the fans than the likes of Laycock or Hobbs, for instance.  Do you remember the old Bristol City AGMs?

[Henry]

 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

12 minutes ago, Southport Red said:

I am just tired of Bristol City being ‘Manager University’ a place where bright young things can do their apprenticeships. Is it too much to ask that we get a manager who has actually achieved in the past?  IIRC, the last manGer we had with a promotion on his CV was Danny Wilson. 

Yes, and he was ****ing useless.  Four seasons with the best squad since the old first division days and all we got was one crappy tinpot trophy and an embarrassing play-off final defeat!

[Finley_Smith10]

1 minute ago, Henry said:

 

Absolute shambles, can’t believe the best chance of us getting to the prem and getting a proven manager and this happens 

[AshtonG666]

15 minutes ago, cityexile said:

Assuming it is Holden, I wish him well, but blimey, this can not be anywhere near where we expected to end up after five weeks.

There simply is no more important single post in the club. What is the point of spending millions on players unless somebody has the experience to get the best out of them?  It’s like me spending £1,000 on a bike - yes it’s nice and all but I am still going to puff and wheeze on it.

All the evidence points to us having had strong experienced candidates. I do not buy the Covid excuse at all, if anything that is even more reason to go for experience over a risk. We clearly have not been able to close the deal on any of those with experience. Gut feel, not to do with their personal wage demands but they would not buy in to ‘the system’. This just all feels like DH is the only one left standing after we have tried everyone else. Even know it still feels we are hoping somebody else sees the error of their ways at the last moment.

It puts DH under huge pressure from day 1. Still have my full support of course, but a huge risk and hugely hugely disappointing.

That's exactly what it is, we have searched the market, nobody will agree how we do things so we are left with DH who will tow the line

 

If the club are not going to change their ways how are the club realistically going to progress and stay in the PL if we ever reach the promised land

[Red Exile]

2 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

That’s just not true.  Did you feel treated with total disregard when the ground was developed?  I feel that fans are valued more now than they’ve ever been - if you’ve been supporting City for 65 years you’ll remember that fans used to count for absolutely NOTHING in terms of having any kind of input into how the club is run - but the digital age has given people a false sense of the importance of their input.  But don’t tell me that Lansdown has had less regard for the fans than the likes of Laycock or Hobbs, for instance.  Do you remember the old Bristol City AGMs?

You might be right that fans have never counted for anything...but when did we last have an AGM? Did fans have any meaningful input in the ground development? Where's that museum? Fans used to be shareholders. Local businessmen used to be on the Board. The club is run by Steve, his son, his mate and Mark Ashton. I'd suggest that it's never been a more closed shop.

 

[hantsred]

What ever we think of clubs management decision to go with the 'least ambitious' appointment (assumed this is happening), please don't as a fan base let this degenerate into a personal or preemptive assault on Holden before his team has even kicked a ball. On the surface this is a massive risk appointment by the club knowing the fans are ready to pop but let the dust settle and see if things improve and then start making judgements. Let the anger fester in the back of our heads and lets just see if it turns out to be the worst decision BCFC have ever made or a blind sided stroke of genius.