Dean Holden (Merged)

[Monkeh]

28 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

“They always shit on us”?  Really?  I’ve quite enjoyed the last few seasons and have been impressed by just how much the club has been prepared to invest.  Maybe I’m out of step with the majority, but I certainly don’t feel shat  on, and I most certainly don’t feel always shat on.  I’ve spent my life supporting City and I’m very happy to continue doing so.

Then you haven't been going to ashton gate

[Southport Red]

3 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Yes, and he was ****ing useless.  Four seasons with the best squad since the old first division days and all we got was one crappy tinpot trophy and an embarrassing play-off final defeat!

So we tried it once ages ago with a poor result. We are about to repeat the alternative. I do not understand why the board do not believe DH was co culpable for Johnson’s failure. Usually the entire backroom get canned, did DH say at interview that LJ was basically Saddam Hussein and “nothing to do with me guv”

[AshtonG666]

1 minute ago, hantsred said:

What ever we think of clubs management decision to go with the 'least ambitious' appointment (assumed this is happening), please don't as a fan base let this degenerate into a personal or preemptive assault on Holden before his team has even kicked a ball. On the surface this is a massive risk appointment by the club knowing the fans are ready to pop but let the dust settle and see if things improve and then start making judgements. Let the anger fester in the back of our heads and lets just see if it turns out to be the worst decision BCFC have ever made or a blind sided stroke of genius.

That's all we can do as supporters, but it still doesn't make it any easier to take after what we have been told by SL and some of the names who are available and reportedly on the shortlist

[Hampshire reds]

i am unsure it is Dean. why would it take so long. 

[Southport Red]

8 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

That’s just not true.  Did you feel treated with total disregard when the ground was developed?  I feel that fans are valued more now than they’ve ever been - if you’ve been supporting City for 65 years you’ll remember that fans used to count for absolutely NOTHING in terms of having any kind of input into how the club is run - but the digital age has given people a false sense of the importance of their input.  But don’t tell me that Lansdown has had less regard for the fans than the likes of Laycock or Hobbs, for instance.  Do you remember the old Bristol City AGMs?

But the ground development was stated as getting us PL ready. How does appointing the co architect of last season’s shocker support that same aim?

[Fordy62]

10 minutes ago, Henry said:

 

Pretty much the final nail in the coffin. FFS. Shambles. 

[Red Exile]

8 minutes ago, hantsred said:

What ever we think of clubs management decision to go with the 'least ambitious' appointment (assumed this is happening), please don't as a fan base let this degenerate into a personal or preemptive assault on Holden before his team has even kicked a ball. On the surface this is a massive risk appointment by the club knowing the fans are ready to pop but let the dust settle and see if things improve and then start making judgements. Let the anger fester in the back of our heads and lets just see if it turns out to be the worst decision BCFC have ever made or a blind sided stroke of genius.

I'd be amazed if many blamed Dean Holden for taking the job.

But if anger isn't expressed now when exactly is is ok to be angry? We've only just got rid of one managerial experiment...it seems to me to be expecting a lot for supporters to placidly go along with another apprentice, when we've been in discussions with master craftsmen.

[Northern Red]

4 minutes ago, hantsred said:

What ever we think of clubs management decision to go with the 'least ambitious' appointment (assumed this is happening), please don't as a fan base let this degenerate into a personal or preemptive assault on Holden before his team has even kicked a ball. On the surface this is a massive risk appointment by the club knowing the fans are ready to pop but let the dust settle and see if things improve and then start making judgements. Let the anger fester in the back of our heads and lets just see if it turns out to be the worst decision BCFC have ever made or a blind sided stroke of genius.

My feeling is that it'll probably be neither of those things.

He won't be a disaster and get us relegated or anything, but he's not the man to push us on to the next level, which is what this appointment was supposed to be.

[ReggyRed]

3 minutes ago, Hampshire reds said:

i am unsure it is Dean. why would it take so long. 

We all live in hope it’s not but I think we all need to come to terms with that it’s happening.

[basshead]

10 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

That’s just not true.  Did you feel treated with total disregard when the ground was developed?  I feel that fans are valued more now than they’ve ever been - if you’ve been supporting City for 65 years you’ll remember that fans used to count for absolutely NOTHING in terms of having any kind of input into how the club is run - but the digital age has given people a false sense of the importance of their input.  But don’t tell me that Lansdown has had less regard for the fans than the likes of Laycock or Hobbs, for instance.  Do you remember the old Bristol City AGMs?

Yes I remember  them.you could actually  speak  to directors and staff. Feel so far away from it all now. Remember last meeting in the dolman lansdown threw his toys out the pram when nearly everyone voted to carry on having the agm meetings. Total disregard  for the people that saved the club in 82 

[supercidered]

2 minutes ago, hantsred said:

What ever we think of clubs management decision to go with the 'least ambitious' appointment (assumed this is happening), please don't as a fan base let this degenerate into a personal or preemptive assault on Holden before his team has even kicked a ball. On the surface this is a massive risk appointment by the club knowing the fans are ready to pop but let the dust settle and see if things improve and then start making judgements. Let the anger fester in the back of our heads and lets just see if it turns out to be the worst decision BCFC have ever made or a blind sided stroke of genius.

If ever there was a 'its the hope that kills you' post then this is it.

Any phrase with Holden and his team in it sends shivers down my spine.

If in appointing Holden turns out well. It will be by luck rather than by judgement. After 5 weeks or so of searching for a new Manager / Coach comes up with Holden as the best choice then that has to be the most ridiculous decision / choice this club has ever made.

By the time the dust has settled we could be well and truly f@cked. There is no time to let the dust settle. The time was and is to go for it and go for it properly. Not to go for someone who isn't deserving of being the Manager / Head Coach at City however popular he may be in the dressing room.

[AshtonG666]

6 minutes ago, Hampshire reds said:

i am unsure it is Dean. why would it take so long. 

He is currently on a short break apparently

[keflav]

18 minutes ago, Henry said:

 

As i tweeted my response to this was, that has been the problem for many a year with Bristol city, we don't need the Manager to be popular or friendly with the squad (ok sometime it helps but not a necessity) unfortunately seems its been like this way to many times seems player think its an easy ride at City and can just plod along whatever happens, and players are to pally with the manager... we need a manager who pushes the players and makes them succeed, and if that means not being massively popular off the pitch with the players then so be it. of course not asking for a manager who is a A££whole, but someone who is tough and make the players we have better... If it is DH then as I said before its the most Bristol City thing Little Bristol city have done, and shows the mentality of the club and managment...

[Abraham Romanovich]

 So the criteria  for picking a new manager is  popularity on the training ground and not rocking the corporate boat.

I bet Sir Alex ,Brian Clough etc were an absolute joy to be around and were forever having a laugh.

 

 

 

 

[supercidered]

4 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

My feeling is that it'll probably be neither of those things.

He won't be a disaster and get us relegated or anything, but he's not the man to push us on to the next level, which is what this appointment was supposed to be.

I think he really could be a disaster and the next level is more likely to be one down rather than one up.

[AshtonG666]

16 minutes ago, Henry said:

 

Hard to take seeing that as it adds an element of it becoming and being more "real"

[daored]

Just now, supercidered said:

I think he really could be a disaster and the next level is more likely to be one down rather than one up.

I agree , financially could be a disaster for the club , reduced income this year and as you say if we go down this year

[HoldenBall]

So our wasteman players endorsing this. Of course they are. Another few years of mediocrity for them.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

2 minutes ago, keflav said:

As i tweeted my response to this was, that has been the problem for many a year with Bristol city, we don't need the Manager to be popular or friendly with the squad (ok sometime it helps but not a necessity) unfortunately seems its been like this way to many times seems player think its an easy ride at City and can just plod along whatever happens, and players to pally with the manager... we need a manager who pushes the players and makes them succeed, and if that means not being massively off the pitch with the players then so be it. of course not asking for a manager who is a A££whole, but someone who is tough and make the players we have better... If it is DH then as I said before its the most Bristol City thing Little Bristol city have done, and shows the mentality of the club and managment...

You need a balance but there’s nothing wrong with the players liking their manager.  The trick for any successful manager in any walk of life is getting the best out of staff without being their best friend, but they have to respect you.  At least we’re not talking of appointing a player here, as we did with Osman and Tinnion...

[Lenners]

**** this club I'm out. Not a joke.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

3 minutes ago, Ron Swanson said:

So our wasteman players endorsing this. Of course they are. Another few years of mediocrity for them.

Do you really think that’s what players want, mediocrity?  I think players want success as much as we do.

[RedRoss]

I won't lie and say I'm completely made up with Holden as manager because I personally think we needed a new outlook.

That being said we have to get behind him if it does happen. There's been some real ugly hate spouted by fans already towards Dean Holden and even the messenger Gregor which must be unpleasant.

Criticism of the board is warranted completely, not hate but criticism due to choice of manager after SL saying 'We need someone to get us over the line' and MA saying 'We've had managers all over world applying, we've got premiership potential' all statements implying that the target is the promise land. Yet taking on the assistant manager of the last regime who's got 11 games of management under his belt isn't saying that.

Also the main issue with all of this for me is the fact we've taken such a long time to end up back in the same place. There has to be more to this story, I'm sure interviews we're held but I'm guessing they didn't say 'Yes' enough which does worry me about the amount of control imposed by MA or SL on footballing matters. I'm fully behind Dean and everyone should be but I'm slightly concerned with the structure above him.

[Jacki]

The more I think about this whole process/fiasco the worse it gets. 

1. When LJ went we were told by the owner that the aim was to get into the Premier League ‘as soon as possible’, which of course Johnson couldn’t deliver. We now look likely to get his less experienced assistant.

2. We must have spoken to numerous contenders now, and I can only assume that the majority have walked away. As I’ve said on another post though, they simply can’t have known what they’re looking for. If they wanted an experienced man surely they could have drawn up a shortlist of such types and worked their way through it. If they wanted ‘up and coming’ they could have done the same. The names linked are all over the place in terms of their backgrounds.... we must have sacked LJ with absolutely no plan or ‘pathway’ around who, if even what type of manager, would replace him.

3. The Covid/cost argument just doesn’t wash as per @Ole’s post earlier. The football world was on its arse months before SL did his TalkSport interview less than a month ago.

4. This is pure conjecture but MA’s in involvement in transfers and running the football side of the club must be part of the reason this job isn’t yet filled. I’m now convinced that he has final say on transfers. I’ve been in the tunnel for work reasons after games a couple of times and MA and SL went straight into the dressing room after both times. I can only assume this is a regular event. Is that normal? I suspect not and it seems to me that the meddling is far greater than any of us realised. What experienced and successful manager would want to work with that kind of interference? Holden is still standing as I believe he’s the only candidate who will. 

5. It’s taken 5 weeks to get to this point, which in any recruitment process is atrocious but in an urgent one like this is unforgivable. There was talk yesterday that Holden hasn’t yet had his second interview. If it is going to be him, what the hell is the point in interviewing him again? He’s been here 4 years! What don’t they already know about him? If it is going to be him, and Christ I hope it isn’t, we just need to get on with it. Pre season starts next week, players (Smith, Williams) are being messed about on contracts.... it’s all so poorly organised and ill considered.

I would personally rather have kept LJ than see where we are now. The worry for me was always that we would end up with someone worse. This is an absolutely key appointment for us at a time where our stock should have been as high as it‘s ever been and we couldn’t have made more of a hash of it, even if it doesn’t turn out to be Holden. We’re at a fork in the road and I fear that we’re going to head backwards now when we’ve never had a better opportunity to push on and compete. It’s all so dispiriting.

One final thing.... if it does turn out to be Holden, it’s not his fault. He seems a thoroughly decent bloke. Any angst should be aimed at the board, not him. 

[Southport Red]

3 minutes ago, RedRoss said:

I won't lie and say I'm completely made up with Holden as manager because I personally think we needed a new outlook.

 

Sorry but I genuinely cannot see how appointing LJ’s deputy gives us “a new outlook”. I agree, we desperately needed one, the fact we are NOT getting one is why people are feeling angry/betrayed/ignored/pointless (delete as appropriate). 

[RedorDead BCFC]

I think the most important issue that is winding up the fans is the timing. If they said they wanted to go with Dean a week after LJ’s dismissal then we would of just gone with it. 
It’s the bollocks that MA said about the applicants that winds me up. 
 

[Taz]

39 minutes ago, Southport Red said:

I am just tired of Bristol City being ‘Manager University’ a place where bright young things can do their apprenticeships. Is it too much to ask that we get a manager who has actually achieved in the past?  IIRC, the last manGer we had with a promotion on his CV was Danny Wilson. 

Coppell technically. Just didn't let his new chair form a shape to his backside 

[Northern Red]

Just now, RedorDead BCFC said:

I think the most important issue that is winding up the fans is the timing. If they said they wanted to go with Dean a week after LJ’s dismissal then we would of just gone with it. 
It’s the bollocks that MA said about the applicants that winds me up. 
 

Which is why something has to have gone wrong with the process. You don't string it out for a month if the bloke who's already at the club is your first choice.

[HoldenBall]

Just now, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Do you really think that’s what players want, mediocrity?  I think players want success as much as we do.

I think the players will be delighted with their cushy mediocrity which lets face it they've had for a few years, nothing better then bringing in a cushy one of the lads head coach. I'd be delighted too if I was a player.

[daored]

1 minute ago, RedRoss said:

I won't lie and say I'm completely made up with Holden as manager because I personally think we needed a new outlook.

That being said we have to get behind him if it does happen. There's been some real ugly hate spouted on here already towards Dean Holden and even the messenger Gregor which must be unpleasant.

Criticism of the board is warranted completely, not hate but criticism due to choice of manager after SL saying 'We need someone to get us over the line' and MA saying 'We've had managers all over world applying, we've got premiership potential' all statements implying that the target is the promise land. Yet taking on the assistant manager of the last regime who's got 11 games of management under his belt isn't saying that.

Also the main issue with all of this for me is the fact we've taken such a long time to end up back in the same place. There has to be more to this story, I'm sure interviews we're held but I'm guessing they didn't say 'Yes' enough which does worry me about the amount of control imposed by MA or SL on footballing matters. I'm fully behind Dean and everyone should be but I'm slightly concerned with the structure above him.

I echo your comments completely and for Dean Holden what a fantastic opportunity- is he the right guy for the job in my opinion no , but time will tell. Although Johnson had the final say on formation / players etc how many players have improved in the past couple of seasons? Dean is a coach and works with the players day to day, that is the worry on my behalf.

Ashton & the Lansdowns now have to cut the bullshit, we have no desire to make the premier league. We had the opportunity  to make a statement with an appointment, a real statement. 

Does our owner & CEO need to review the structure of the club, we have a fantastic stadium with a new training ground on the way and yet we can’t attract a manager to come in. 
 

An inexperienced head coach , supported by Jamie Mac & possibly Ashley Williams - a real signal of intent by the club 

[RedRoss]

5 minutes ago, Southport Red said:

Sorry but I genuinely cannot see how appointing LJ’s deputy gives us “a new outlook”. I agree, we desperately needed one, the fact we are NOT getting one is why people are feeling angry/betrayed/ignored/pointless (delete as appropriate). 

Sorry but you haven't read what I said. Read again pal..