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Dean Holden (Merged)


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If we appoint Holden I will...   

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19 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Like I said, Holden for 12 months to play the youth with the seniors. Bring in a few in the window. Play good football like it looked in some of those recent games.

No harm done. Who knows he might even do really well. 

Your just repeating yourself over & over - the theckless over optimism is ridiculous in the face of a wall of information & the history here at this club,,this very mistake being made on other none too distant occasion's should be enough to inform..

Are you sure your not on drugs?

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19 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Like I said, Holden for 12 months to play the youth with the seniors. Bring in a few in the window. Play good football like it looked in some of those recent games.

No harm done. Who knows he might even do really well. 

The Championship is a unforgiving place. Trusting youth and Holden who to my knowledge is unproven at anything anywhere let alone at this level. Then you say play good football like in recent times? There were a few patches of ok football and only if it is compared to the tripe that we have seen in recent and not so recent times.

There is a likelihood of real harm being done here. I'm not just worried but I'm terrified of that harm.

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2 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Defeats were not the problem by many of us LJ outers. It was the style of football, the endless shocking home performances and his embarassing quips in post match interviews.

Holden and Jamie Mac should have gone with him.

Yes it was poor but there were clearly reasons behind this - some blamed Lee and I thought it was down to player sales and injuries. We are a selling club trying to develop our own players and this kind of thing is to be expected.  Changing the manager can disrupt the whole ethos of the club and I like the idea of seeing young players coming through and understand that this will sometimes be problematic. This puts pressure on the manager to only pick experienced players and that is not going to help development. If the last season was poor, there has certainly been progress before then and I felt optimistic about the future with Lee. Fan hysteria did for him in the end. I feel it was a mistake personally.

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Just now, 2015 said:

Fans are frustrated due to the lack of ambition by our club and the lies Lansdown made on air to talksport. We have seen this happen too many times now with the club. 

I think City fans are not an entitled bunch you think we are, we just cannot fathom how it has ended up in all likelihood with LJ's assistant. No entitlement there.

If you're happy with Holden good for you, but expect a season of struggle, poor defeats and performances and fan upheaval.

In my opinion you are burying your head in the sand if you are still trying to find positives in the club if this appointment is made. 

Perfect illustration of how to completely misread a post.

 

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3 minutes ago, keflav said:

FFS you know that not what I'm saying, trying to make a point about the perceived club culture of players having it easy etc etc. don't try and spin it into something different...?  

Well, I agree with your points that being popular isn't a totally necessary prerequisite. However, I don't really believe that the process is in anyway related to it. It seemed you were saying he was being appointed due to his popularity? FWIW if Holden is appointed I will find it rather baffling that it has taken so long given our extensive search, home and abroad for an exciting manager. I feel we would have already known that holden was better than them all should that be the case.

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4 minutes ago, Redrascal2 said:

Lansdown is experienced in failing regularly to pick good managers for Bristol City. And it seems he will carry this on with Holden. Why this is I can only guess. Maybe he has an arrogant belief that he knows best and will not listen to others. But to describe this as pragmatism I would say is misguided and way off the mark.

We have progressed. Steve Cotterill was good in the promotion season and Lee Johnson improved us. The last 5 or 6 years have not been at all bad when you consider our history.

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Just now, Bat Fastard said:

Yes it was poor but there were clearly reasons behind this - some blamed Lee and I thought it was down to player sales and injuries. We are a selling club trying to develop our own players and this kind of thing is to be expected.  Changing the manager can disrupt the whole ethos of the club and I like the idea of seeing young players coming through and understand that this will sometimes be problematic. This puts pressure on the manager to only pick experienced players and that is not going to help development. If the last season was poor, there has certainly been progress before then and I felt optimistic about the future with Lee. Fan hysteria did for him in the end. I feel it was a mistake personally.

The reasons were Lee Johnson, in my opinion. Our style of football and any excitement went down the pan in January 2018, I have not since then seen a fluent City team. 
Having young players come through is all well and good, only if they are good enough, the Championship is a tough and unforgiving league, not like League 1 or League 2 where young players have more time to grow and where mistakes go unpunished. If we have a team full of academy products, we will likely be in the bottom 6 majority of the season. 
There was no hysteria, just fans who were simply fed up of dire tactics, poor football, combined with us then losing games. 

But it's all good, we're appointing his assistant

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11 minutes ago, Desso said:

I've read many times on here that DH was part of the old failed regime. Yes he was but we don't know if he agreed with it. I didn't know LJ but he came across as a "my way or the highway" type. We dont know if DH disagreed with the way he did things or the team selection, and wasn't allowed to say.

I was pretty impressed by the team after LJ left. They looked rejuvenated and up for it. Having said that, I'm disappointed that a proven manager has probably been overlooked but I think DH deserves a chance. 

Just going now to put my tin hat on.

 

May I suggest this outfit following your post? 
 

33BC59D5-C00E-4C84-B28A-E8853A5BF8E3.jpeg

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1 minute ago, Bat Fastard said:

We have progressed. Steve Cotterill was good in the promotion season and Lee Johnson improved us. The last 5 or 6 years have not been at all bad when you consider our history.

But for the past 2 years we have stagnated

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1 minute ago, super slick said:

100%

Unfortunately the majority will continue plodding down to Ashton Gate, giving the club their undeserved backing. 

'Get behind Deano', board only doing what they think is right etc.

No interest anymore, fed up of being treated like customers. Time for a long break from the club when this is announced.  Sad as its been a major part of my life for the last 30 years. Never mind

I feel your pain slick i can top trump your 30 years its 50 years plus for me me and the family havent renewed our season tickets yet but have picked out our seats for coming season we usually book a table in sports bar and guzzle down copius pints of beer and pizzas was very excited at the prospect of stevie G and chris hughton sadly and no disrespect to dean holden most of the family are deflated and dont want to renew sadly i wont be heading back to the gate if dh is appointed iam gutted even with the dire fooball on show i loved my big day out at the gate fingers crossed they pull an awe inspiring appoitment out of the bag that will get the juices flowing again CTID

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The most interesting aspect would be whether there’s a shift in expectations. You’d assume if we went for Hughton we’d be expecting top 6. I think that’s reasonable given his CV.

As in my reply to @JonDolman, LJ was expected to achieve top 6 and was sacked when it was (as good as) mathematically impossible. It stands to reason Holden should have these same expectations.

It feels an enormous gamble to entrust a tough target to such an inexperienced manager. Would the board be so inconsistent as to shift targets for Holden?

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1 hour ago, desert said:

If the Board (Lansdown) do appoint Holden then they should be ashamed of how they have managed the process. It will give him the worst possible starting point and foundation for doing what must be a hugely challenging and exciting step in his career. He will face anger, disappointment and, in some unfortunate cases, probably abuse from the fan base that he is there to serve. He will be under massive negative pressure from the start and that stuff influences confidence and decision making in managers. Few people give of their best under these conditions.
None of this is his fault. This will be entirely the responsibility of a Board that have clearly made a complete pigs ear of this process.

if I was Holden, despite the temptation of this opportunity, I would be asking myself if I really wanted to accept the offer to be set up to fail. He has been through a lot in his life. He knows what is important and what isn’t. Is dealing with this plate of crap the Board have handed him worth the stress?

Of course they may appoint Hughton in which case ignore the above.

Absolutely spot on and, if Holden does end up accepting the role he personally doesn’t deserve any stick for doing so. The vast majority would do the same in his position.

And if he did turn it down who could blame him? It feels like a proper hospital pass now and he could go on leading a relatively hassle free life as a number two earning good money and living with a lot less stress.

 

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17 minutes ago, Redpool said:

Agreed. As fans, we’ve been too positive and sat back for far too long. It’s about time we echo our frustrations to the club. 

Agreed but most have been doing this now on here for 6 to 7 weeks. What is next ?

There will be and there has to be an announcement in the coming days of some one special being appointed.

In 3 or 4 more years time when we will be high flyers In the Prem we will all look back to this current period and it will go down as one of the low moments in history of BCFC.

We will over come.

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24 minutes ago, Mr Hankey said:

Can’t be saying things like that about Lord Lansdown, you will have a contract put out on you!

Whilst i appreaciate the good he has done for us in regard to the stadium, which by the way no longer even belongs to the club but the man himself (!), & the training ground & we could have far worse in charge.......we could also have far better! The money he has spent & we seem no closer to the prem ( for people who say “oh i dont want to see us in the prem anyway” have a ******* look at yourself before deciding you want to follow a sport, surely you want your club to be the best), plus the thought of Little Jonny having the club in the future is enough to be worried about.

If Holden is appointed, hopefully he will be a success, but what happens when he doesn’t? Will Ashton put himself in charge, will we have a situation where Jon wants to have a go at telling the manager who to play? Strange times ahead.

How are we "no closer" ? When SL took over we'd spent only 6 of the previous 20 years at this level. Since then we've only spent 7 seasons outside of this level - and 12 of the last 14 seasons at this level sitting in and around the play off places for large parts of the last few seasons

I'd say we are much closer than we were when SL took over.

 

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Dean Holden may well turn out to be a very successful coach and/or manager in future, but given the history here, he is not the right person to take charge at Ashton Gate this time. Personally I don’t have a problem if he is appointed (although he is definitely not in my top 3 choices) but this view is very much in the minority on OTIB.

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3 minutes ago, 2015 said:

The reasons were Lee Johnson, in my opinion. Our style of football and any excitement went down the pan in January 2018, I have not since then seen a fluent City team. 
Having young players come through is all well and good, only if they are good enough, the Championship is a tough and unforgiving league, not like League 1 or League 2 where young players have more time to grow and where mistakes go unpunished. If we have a team full of academy products, we will likely be in the bottom 6 majority of the season. 
There was no hysteria, just fans who were simply fed up of dire tactics, poor football, combined with us then losing games. 

But it's all good, we're appointing his assistant

I do not believe it is fair or realistic to ignore the fact that Lee's very best players were sold and that, on top of that, injuries were a huge problem.

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37 minutes ago, italian dave said:

The first sentence says that if Holden is appointed it's because the Board believe he's the best choice. Are you saying you don't believe that? That the Board would deliberately appoint someone other than the person they think is the best choice? 

You may not like the appointment, you may not think it's the best choice, you may think the reason the board think as they d is because he'd be a 'yes' man, but that's not the point.

I've avoided contributing to this thread til now because it reminds me of some kind of weird self flagellation ritual, where all the pleasure some people used to derive from lambasting LJ each week somehow has to replaced, and there's nothing else to do that work ourselves up into a frenzy about something that we know nothing about and that may or nay not happen. 

I dont for one second believe they think he's the best. If they did  they would have known that very early on in the process. It would not have taken them 5 weeks to come up with that! What a ridiculous notion!

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2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

The most interesting aspect would be whether there’s a shift in expectations. You’d assume if we went for Hughton we’d be expecting top 6. I think that’s reasonable given his CV.

As in my reply to @JonDolman, LJ was expected to achieve top 6 and was sacked when it was (as good as) mathematically impossible. It stands to reason Holden should have these same expectations.

It feels an enormous gamble to entrust a tough target to such an inexperienced manager. Would the board be so inconsistent as to shift targets for Holden?

Hughton = Expectation

Cook = Hope

Holden = Fingers (and everything else) firmly crossed

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2 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

I really hope the Holden takes us up and some of the posters on this thread look back at it and apologise for being utterly embarrassing..! 

Everyone is hoping Holden is a success. Everyone who’s been negative about the appointment would be delighted if he proves them wrong. 
 

You can understand the outrage given the way the club has gone about it. Huge delay,  raised fan expectations thanks to Ashton, talking to proven seasoned managers.. and ending up with a fairly underwhelming assistant. That’s why people are angry - but people aren’t hoping *he* fails.

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10 minutes ago, Finley_Smith10 said:

Nothing to be positive about regarding this appointment when Chris Hughton’s the stand out candidate, cheap option and fans have lost trust and faith in the board 

Another thread with the same message, how do we know he wasn't offered the role and declined it?

The same applies to any of the endless list of names in the multiple threads.

There are probably 3 or 4 people who actually know who has been interviewed, have been made offers, who didn't want to come here etc.

Speculation is all there is at the moment, even the local journo seems to get his headlines from this forum.

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Just now, Bat Fastard said:

I do not believe it is fair or realistic to ignore the fact that Lee's very best players were sold and that, on top of that, injuries were a huge problem.

They are a factor, yes. However, even with Brownhill and Webster like you stated we were still scraping through performances, results and still going on these silly runs of streaks. We had stagnated for the past 2 years.

Performances, results, player transfers, they all ultimately fall on the Managers shoulders i'm afraid and he was in my eyes rightfully dismissed. 

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15 minutes ago, Desso said:

I've read many times on here that DH was part of the old failed regime. Yes he was but we don't know if he agreed with it. I didn't know LJ but he came across as a "my way or the highway" type. We dont know if DH disagreed with the way he did things or the team selection, and wasn't allowed to say.

I was pretty impressed by the team after LJ left. They looked rejuvenated and up for it. Having said that, I'm disappointed that a proven manager has probably been overlooked but I think DH deserves a chance. 

Just going now to put my tin hat on.

 

Do you not think that if Holden disagreed with LJ on tactics, coaching etc, then, he Holden, should have found himself a position at another club?

If that is so, makes Holden a hypocrite, for taking the pay while not agreeing with his boss's ideas.

We need a clean sweep of coaching staff.

We probably also need a change of approach from SL who could be "meddling too much in football matters".

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1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Everyone is hoping Holden is a success. Everyone who’s been negative about the appointment would be delighted if he proves them wrong. 
 

You can understand the outrage given the way the club has gone about it. Huge delay,  raised fan expectations thanks to Ashton, talking to proven seasoned managers.. and ending up with a fairly underwhelming assistant. That’s why people are angry - but people aren’t hoping *he* fails.

How about people give him a chance before putting him down as the wrong choice..? 

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3 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

The most interesting aspect would be whether there’s a shift in expectations. You’d assume if we went for Hughton we’d be expecting top 6. I think that’s reasonable given his CV.

As in my reply to @JonDolman, LJ was expected to achieve top 6 and was sacked when it was (as good as) mathematically impossible. It stands to reason Holden should have these same expectations.

It feels an enormous gamble to entrust a tough target to such an inexperienced manager. Would the board be so inconsistent as to shift targets for Holden?

I wouldn’t even care if we shifted our position and focused more on bringing young players through and pushing top half. None at all except for the fact that SL said 3 weeks ago it is time to take the next step towards PL. That for me is the biggest reason I am angry at this(if it becomes reality anyway).
 

SL can’t help but say shit to make us happy then act completely opposite. Started with Kodjia not being sold to the champ. Then after cup season he said target was playoffs which we didn’t make but LJ got a new contract. Now he is saying we want to take the next step and odds are DH will be appointed. I have said numerous times if SL just kept his mouth shut there would be less problems but he can’t help himself

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6 minutes ago, super slick said:

100%

Unfortunately the majority will continue plodding down to Ashton Gate, giving the club their undeserved backing. 

'Get behind Deano', board only doing what they think is right etc.

No interest anymore, fed up of being treated like customers. Time for a long break from the club when this is announced.  Sad as its been a major part of my life for the last 30 years. Never mind

Trouble is many just go down for the social. A chance to see their mates, a family outing or just a booze up. You also get the fans who support the club regardless which is admirable and something I couldn't do. 

I suppose it could be worse and we are an established championship team who have been pretty competitive over the last few seasons at points. Just frustrating since the prem has been formed we are one of the only clubs who in the second tier not to be there. Us, Millwall, Preston, Brentford. We have arguably the best infrastructure but still won't get there before the above.

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