Jump to content
IGNORED

Dean Holden (Merged)


Bcfcbackwell

If we appoint Holden I will...   

1100 members have voted

You do not have permission to vote in this poll, or see the poll results. Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

Recommended Posts

50 minutes ago, FNQ said:

I’m sure Chris Hughton would be realistic too and would not expect the kind of deal he might have pre COVID..  Holden won’t get us out of this division, not up anyway.. if promotion really remains the dream then what’s the point of throwing the anchor out?

If you know for a fact that Holden won’t get us promoted, can you tell me Saturdays lottery numbers. I presume your statement is just made up garbage based on nothing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, JonDolman said:

I don't think we will need to replace them with similar players.

If it is Holden and he goes 352 then no replacement needed for Eliasson.

And I am really hoping we go with mobility in our front 2. I really like Kieffer Moore. But for me I'd rather we had 4 mobile forwards competing for 2 places.

I wonder if Holden would be given a nudge to utilise Palmer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Reality is the club will lose more money and support if relegated. Getting the right manager/hc can earn you money by getting more out of the playing staff. Hiring DH makes 0 sense. 

So no fans attending for some months, limit of 8,000 once allowed back. Don’t think fans acting like spoilt children will make any difference for quite some time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, supercidered said:

Then I'm not sure you are going to be happy.

 

Bit hard to tell at the moment.

To be fair to Holden in his first 2-3 games the football was definitely a little better.  We don't know what he would've done re the young players as the ones who most people would like to have played were prevented from being in the team by the loan returnees rule.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Chappers said:

If you know for a fact that Holden won’t get us promoted, can you tell me Saturdays lottery numbers. I presume your statement is just made up garbage based on nothing.

I'd imagine it is neither fact nor garbage, but opinion. 

We all have an opinion based on the information available to us. 

For example, the 5 games at the end of the season - Holden's team selections, City's performances - might have concerned a few of us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Chappers said:

If you know for a fact that Holden won’t get us promoted, can you tell me Saturdays lottery numbers. I presume your statement is just made up garbage based on nothing.

Nobody knows for a fact for crying out loud.

The statement is based on looking at everything we do know for a fact. Everything we do know points to a failure to appoint the best possible candidate for the role. It is nothing more or less than that. If you or anyone else actually believes that Holden is the best candidate taking everything in to account. That of course is your prerogative. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I really don't know if we even went for Gerrard.

Bristol post could easily have gone with that story as clickbait. And it would have worked in getting many thousands more clicking on Bristol post website.

They've been pretty reliable on this appointment so it's highly likely we did. We know that we've talked to Hughton either way who wouldn't have come cheap and would want a sizeable transfer budget - the bottom line is that Covid can't be an excuse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

They've been pretty reliable on this appointment so it's highly likely we did. We know that we've talked to Hughton either way who wouldn't have come cheap and would want a sizeable transfer budget - the bottom line is that Covid can't be an excuse.

but that's the line thats being spun https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bristol-city-next-manager-live-4399147

 

I suspect the players know, but there has to be an official announcement for the fans. I'm underwhelmed but am now resigned to it

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

Like I said, Holden for 12 months to play the youth with the seniors. Bring in a few in the window. Play good football like it looked in some of those recent games.

No harm done. Who knows he might even do really well. 

Players had no pressure apart from middlesbrough what good football did we play? The remaining games? 

If anybody thinks Holden will get us up then they are kidding themselves!!! Here we go again same old I said the same under Johnson when he arrived it won't happen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Chappers said:

So no fans attending for some months, limit of 8,000 once allowed back. Don’t think fans acting like spoilt children will make any difference for quite some time.

The club will have to make a decision on refunds and the like soon. That will be the opportunity for a few to act like spoilt brats as you put it. Other than that many will simply wait and see what happens and if it’s bad then the 2021-22 season could turn ugly. Of course the opposite could happen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Sweeneys Penalties said:

but that's the line thats being spun https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bristol-city-next-manager-live-4399147

 

I suspect the players know, but there has to be an official announcement for the fans. I'm underwhelmed but am now resigned to it

In that article not so much, it's mainly the Post speculating as a possible reason why. It clearly doesn't add up and is hugely inconsistent given who we know has been spoken to about the vacancy. 

I still think it's a bit odd that allegedly the reason for no announcement is because Holden is on holiday. It's also unusual how the only source talking firmly about Holden is Gregor. Usually other outlets would be discussing it. 

I don't think this is a done deal yet, lots of aspects are a bit strange. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Olé said:

Chris (I think it's Chris?) - while I wouldn't use language like "shat on", in this instance I do think that's not far off what is happening to us and we're at risk of believing we're all on different sides when our priorities are the same. A stable, well run, ideally successful club operated in the interests of its supporters, not individuals. I have a lot of time for your responsible, positive outlook, but I think you're drawing a very different conclusion to me, using the exact same data. Or if I can be direct, you see a virtuous, responsible push for a young coach, I see it as anything but. 

My approach to this potential Holden appointment is straightforward. For me it confirms my worst fears about SL's intention at City - which I've covered on here already, but in essence is about indulging his control/access to football matters, through placement of utterly inexperienced people in the most skilled and critical role in the organisation, where they are both indebted to and manipulated by the owner and his appointed CEO. Great benefactor or not, in my view it's reckless, self-indulgent, and not in the interests of the club, the exact opposite of how you read it.

SL admitted this access under LJ, and as a fan of logic, I work through different scenarios to try and understand rationale and I don't see any other explanation other than SL not relinquishing that structure. Suspicion of this under LJ was tempered by his history at City and some legitimacy to his candidacy. But on what planet is Holden a legitimate candidate even if your objective is "good young coach"? He has no history or track record, his isn't known in football as a top coach, hell SL even knows good young coaches - i.e. Luke Williams headhunted by us and from us.

We are in a farcical situation where our proposed appointment wouldn't be made by a single other club at our level and probably not the level below us and ticks absolutely no boxes other than convenience and then something in my view more sinister around access and influence for the people that make that appointment. I accept you probably see this as pragmatic, stable, sensible - I am absolutely terrified that it is the total opposite. Do no alarm bells go off at all, at the unlikeliness of Holden's candidacy and the hidden agenda that might suggest is at work at the club? 

In the other bit in bold above, you highlight "investment" by City as an example of how impressed you are at their intentions. I would agree, but doesn't that evidence to you precisely the flaw in your acceptance of the approach to managers as prudent and responsible? When by your own observation it can't be about money? To me that's the opposite of prudence, it's utterly reckless to be lavishing cash on all parts of the car but finding reasons to put a novice in the driving seat. Appointing Holden would simply confirm a repeated agenda to install and prop up a puppet.

One of the taboos on OTIB is questioning SL. Funding the club affords him almost unquestioning loyalty and appreciation. I appreciate him too, and all he has spent on City, but owning the club is a privilege for him too, and I won't sit quietly when decisions blur the lines between custodian and self-indulgence. It's an easy line to highlight the reckless and disastrous ownership (foreign and otherwise) at other clubs. No one mentions Leicester, Sheff Utd, Cardiff and plenty of others have passed us by under responsible, hands-off foreign owners without any of this charade. 

Hope you are keeping well Rob. In normal times I would agree, we have put the right structure in place, it just needs that little bit extra, last season, a midfield would have been nice, especially once Josh left. However, I do think that the COVID issue is being very under-estimated in terms of finances and the probable serious disruption to next season. 
Normal circumstances, we definitely need an external appointment with backing. Right now, we have a large squad, finding takers for surplus players will be difficult, and huge losses will be incurred. That’s why I’m not too bothered if we go internal for now. 
Hope to see you in an away pub in the not too distant future, although more likely 18/ 24 months at least.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

The club will have to make a decision on refunds and the like soon. That will be the opportunity for a few to act like spoilt brats as you put it. Other than that many will simply wait and see what happens and if it’s bad then the 2021-22 season could turn ugly. Of course the opposite could happen.

It won’t turn ugly, by the time normality returns he will either have done well, or will have been replaced. Next season, if fans return, about 8,000 seats, no problem filling with existing SC holders, so a a few have a hissy fit and go, no problem.

Its like some religious cult on here, heresy to suggest that it might be a pragmatic appointment, that it might be a good move, and that external factors are probably playing a huge part in this. 
As for his 5 games, he did OK. Any manager would struggle given a midfield with zero energy or bite that was easy to walk through.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, cider hoss rules said:

Another thread with the same message, how do we know he wasn't offered the role and declined it?

The same applies to any of the endless list of names in the multiple threads.

There are probably 3 or 4 people who actually know who has been interviewed, have been made offers, who didn't want to come here etc.

Speculation is all there is at the moment, even the local journo seems to get his headlines from this forum.

That's nothing new

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Henry said:

 

If the players are on side, and will play for him, surely that’s a good thing? 
 

if he’s a good trainer, tactically aware and has a good relationship and understanding of the players then why is it such a bad idea. I get the impression that the new manager will have to work with what we have so why not have a manager that knows them? I was against Holden initially but now as over caring and kind of think it might make sense for 1 season at least. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, BRISTOL86 said:

As the old saying goes, “wish in one hand and shot in the other, and see which one fills up first!”

The idea of Holden taking us up is about as far from reality as it’s possible to get right now. Of course it could happen, but what evidence have you seen that he’s remotely qualified for the job? I’ve seen none. 

People said LJ was unqualified, and if that was true, what on earth does it make Holden? 

I agree.  If you were in charge at BCFC how does where we find ourselves right now stack up?

 

Job Title: Head Coach BCFC.  Role is to take training sessions, devise tactics, sign off on player retention/recruitment.  You will be expected to reach top 6 in the league.

Applicant #1:  Have managed at numerous Championship clubs.  Gained promotion to PL numerous times.  Well respected in the game.  Learnt my coaching trade at Tottenham.  Have been coaching for years.

 

Applicant #2: Have not been a coach yet.  Have done my badges and am keen to learn on the job.  

 

How is there a shortlist of 2 ?

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’d be massively underwhelmed tbh.

For me we have decent potential - LJ couldn’t get the max out of the squad, so it seems strange to think his less experienced assistant would.

The only “but...” is if perhaps we’ve both overestimated Holden/Jamie Mac’s input to the playing side, and underestimated their connection with the squad.

If the players will play for them, there is hope, but would prefer the risk of a new man with new ideas and ideally some experience shaking things up right now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, soultrader said:

I agree.  If you were in charge at BCFC how does where we find ourselves right now stack up?

 

Job Title: Head Coach BCFC.  Role is to take training sessions, devise tactics, sign off on player retention/recruitment.  You will be expected to reach top 6 in the league.

Applicant #1:  Have managed at numerous Championship clubs.  Gained promotion to PL numerous times.  Well respected in the game.  Learnt my coaching trade at Tottenham.  Have been coaching for years.

 

Applicant #2: Have not been a coach yet.  Have done my badges and am keen to learn on the job.  

 

How is there a shortlist of 2 ?

 

 

Exactly!!  And not just that the turnover that Hughton would bring would be massive it's a no brainer.. The clubs making the same mistake yet again!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Bobbie said:

If the players are on side, and will play for him, surely that’s a good thing? 
 

if he’s a good trainer, tactically aware and has a good relationship and understanding of the players then why is it such a bad idea. I get the impression that the new manager will have to work with what we have so why not have a manager that knows them? I was against Holden initially but now as over caring and kind of think it might make sense for 1 season at least. 

If it’s a popularity contest, put Scott Murray in charge.

This would be a “Trigger’s broom” appointment; another cop out by the clueless corporate machine that runs the club.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, Notbarrymanc said:

Progression is also subjective, but from another POV quite literal: you can see it in team performance and league standing. That’s where the stagnation becomes evident. 
 

The fact is that 19/20 did not see progression in league position. Is this related to player recruitment? Yep, imo quite clearly. 
 

If we weaken the 1st team and management team will 20/21 see further regression? Of course. That stagnation will manifest itself in quite obvious ways - team performance and  league standing. 

I don’t disagree, but we had a good summer recruitment.  Injuries played a big part, as did flip-flopping between systems and personnel.

I said a while ago I think “it” had stagnated, whether that be the LJ, the players, the tactics...who knows.

Yes, and progression isnt always about league position, but pathway, succession planning.

Under LJ the squad looked bloated and unbalanced, because we had no system to analyse it against.

Lot of work to do in 5 weeks, and they’ve taken a huge gamble. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, supercidered said:

He is the wrong choice. 

How can anyone reasonably justify that he is the right choice?

Surely he's neither, yet. Until he proves which he is. 

He's a risky choice, absolutely. But Clough, Fergie, pep all started in a first job at some point. 

Granted, so did Ben Garner...! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, citywest30 said:

I dont for one second believe they think he's the best. If they did  they would have known that very early on in the process. It would not have taken them 5 weeks to come up with that! What a ridiculous notion!

OK then, the best choice they've got. Clearly someone like Klopp would be the best choice, but (and again only the Board know this) the Board can only make a choice from who's available - and I just don't accept the suggestion that they would deliberately do other then make what they thought was the best choice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

Surely he's neither, yet. Until he proves which he is. 

He's a risky choice, absolutely. But Clough, Fergie, pep all started in a first job at some point. 

Granted, so did Ben Garner...! 

I think you nailed it right there.

For every Clough there are 100's of Garner's

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...