Dean Holden (Merged)

[Red Exile]

31 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

I suppose it depends how you define “well”, although I couldn’t be any more against him being appointed, I genuinely don’t think that we will struggle to stay up next season.

For a start Sheffield Wednesday have to get 13 points more than we do to finish above us & is anyone seriously suggesting Wycombe or Rotherham will finish above us?

However we are told our aim is to get into The Premiership & I cannot see any logic that would make anyone think this appointment will do that.

I expect a finish somewhere between 12th & 14th, which if you think we will struggle is doing “well” but in the context of our stated ambitions is obviously not.

I agree Graham. Millen revisited but with a far more competent squad.

Which for me begs the question, given that relegation doesn't seem to be a severe risk, why, if we couldn't negotiate a deal with a Hughton, Cook or Neil we didn't go for a talented younger manager with proven managerial pedigree. One to develop for the future.

Holden has nothing in his track record to compete with even that chap Flynn...

[Johnny Musicworks]

Can someone please point me to the time when fans picked our manager. It may be my age but I can’t recall it. Holden would not have been my first choice but Hughton wouldn’t have been either. If the board pick Holden that’s fine by me as we missed our chance this year so next season in my opinion will be about trying to replace a few key players with young players or free signings which I suspect Hughton may struggle with. I would take a top half finish as in reality we are a long way off the better teams in this league and as Steve L has always said he wants the club to be sustainable it would be mad to just throw money away again.

Away from OTIB people I’ve spoken to seem more angry with the delay than who gets the job. The board have certainly not covered themselves in glory over recent weeks and if it is to be Holden they need to just buckle up, take the flak and get on with it. Supporting this club is always more about the dashed hopes  than the achievements so nothing new there.
 

Are we supporters or customers ? We are both and always have been in my 55 years at the Gate but the customer experience is vastly improved. Is BCFC Steve’s toy to do with as he wants. Yes exactly as it was also Harry Dolmans when I started supporting. Crackers corner has been replaced by the keyboard warriors of OTIB but basically life goes on and I hope however disappointed people are that they can just get behind whoever gets the job well at least until the next bad run.

 

 

 

[Yozzarian]

Ever get the feeling that people working for the club post on here as unofficial mouthpieces? Wouldn't put it past them in this modern media age.

This isn't directed at anyone incidentally. All opinions are valid on any side of a debate. It is something I have wondered in the past.

[The Journalist]

3 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

I agree Graham. Millen revisited but with a far more competent squad.

Which for me begs the question, given that relegation doesn't seem to be a severe risk, why, if we couldn't negotiate a deal with a Hughton, Cook or Neil we didn't go for a talented younger manager with proven managerial pedigree. One to develop for the future.

Holden has nothing in his track record to compete with even that chap Flynn...

Ryan Lowe, with two promotions already, seems a decent shout now...

[Bat Fastard]

5 minutes ago, collier said:

Here we go again. The plant is back to paint a rosy picture and teach us the error of our ways!

I think you have worked it out Collier. We should all go and jump off the suspension bridge because we have no future.  Anyone who tries to look at the bright side is a deluded fool.  Of course you are right. Jumping off the bridge is the smart thing to do!......I suggest you jump first!

[Taz]

Just now, The Journalist said:

Ryan Lowe, with two promotions already, seems a decent shout now...

Agree.

Conspiracy theorists may believe that the club are feeding the Holden speculation to the press, in the hope that a Flynn or Lowe appointment looks like the announcement of the century....

[Bat Fastard]

4 minutes ago, Yozzarian said:

Ever get the feeling that people working for the club post on here as unofficial mouthpieces? Wouldn't put it past them in this modern media age.

This isn't directed at anyone incidentally. All opinions are valid on any side of a debate. It is something I have wondered in the past.

Doh... caught again.  

[Galway Red]

58 minutes ago, SedRA said:

It was a long time. But they also won the Champions League twice, FA cup and League Cup as well as two more Champions League finals, a Europa League final, FA and League cup finals and coming close to the Premier League a number of times. 
 

A lot more exciting than mid table pretty much every season for the past 35 years, which I think is @Galway Red’s point 

Cheers and well said, trying to equate what Everton and Liverpool have achieved in the last 25 years is ridiculous, Everton should never of got rid of Gordon Lee 

[Phileas Fogg]

4 minutes ago, Johnny Musicworks said:

Can someone please point me to the time when fans picked our manager. It may be my age but I can’t recall it.

Because it doesn't happen like that and you know that.

4 minutes ago, Johnny Musicworks said:

Holden would not have been my first choice but Hughton wouldn’t have been either. If the board pick Holden that’s fine by me as we missed our chance this year so next season in my opinion will be about trying to replace a few key players with young players or free signings which I suspect Hughton may struggle with. I would take a top half finish as in reality we are a long way off the better teams in this league and as Steve L has always said he wants the club to be sustainable it would be mad to just throw money away again.

Johnson was sacked for not finishing playoffs, Lansdown has stated as much in his interview to TalkSport. Stands to reason the new manager is expected to get playoffs or better.

4 minutes ago, Johnny Musicworks said:

Away from OTIB people I’ve spoken to seem more angry with the delay than who gets the job. The board have certainly not covered themselves in glory over recent weeks and if it is to be Holden they need to just buckle up, take the flak and get on with it. Supporting this club is always more about the dashed hopes  than the achievements so nothing new there.

That's the same here ultimately. People are angry with the process, raised expectations and delay. I'd wager there'd be far more acceptance of the appointment if they'd immediately appointed Holden - citing Covid etc.

4 minutes ago, Johnny Musicworks said:

Are we supporters or customers ? We are both and always have been in my 55 years at the Gate but the customer experience is vastly improved. Is BCFC Steve’s toy to do with as he wants. Yes exactly as it was also Harry Dolmans when I started supporting. Crackers corner has been replaced by the keyboard warriors of OTIB but basically life goes on and I hope however disappointed people are that they can just get behind whoever gets the job well at least until the next bad run.

Of course people will get behind the new manager, that's never been the issue. The anger is with the board for raising expectations and making a mess of the process. "Keyboard warriors of OTIB" is disrespectful, it's just passionate fans debating and discussing the club. 

[Miah Dennehy]

18 minutes ago, TedsHeadIs Red said:

Isn’t it better to vent feelings about an actual appointment rather than a speculative one?

Even then, isn’t it better to vent feelings about actual performances rather than speculative ones?

You do realise you are on the internet don't you?

[Galway Red]

4 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

I think you have worked it out Collier. We should all go and jump off the suspension bridge because we have no future.  Anyone who tries to look at the bright side is a deluded fool.  Of course you are right. Jumping off the bridge is the smart thing to do!......I suggest you jump first!

Oh no, you're awake

[Phileas Fogg]

3 minutes ago, Taz said:

Agree.

Conspiracy theorists may believe that the club are feeding the Holden speculation to the press, in the hope that a Flynn or Lowe appointment looks like the announcement of the century....

Agreed - I'd definitely have Ryan Lowe over Holden. I don't know enough about Flynn to say the same for him, but we're in desperate need of a fresh perspective - Lansdown said as much. It's astonishing that we're just promoting members of the team who were part of the rot. 

[Portland Bill]

39 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

I think the consistent  LJ outers are going to look pretty stupid soon. As they say be careful what you wish for.

Really ??

A bloke who had 3 months to prepare for the next game, then made 7 changes for the following one.

None of us could be as stupid as that. So glad he has gone, you never know, we may actually have the occasional shot on goal next season.

[Red Exile]

6 minutes ago, Johnny Musicworks said:

Can someone please point me to the time when fans picked our manager. It may be my age but I can’t recall it. Holden would not have been my first choice but Hughton wouldn’t have been either. If the board pick Holden that’s fine by me as we missed our chance this year so next season in my opinion will be about trying to replace a few key players with young players or free signings which I suspect Hughton may struggle with. I would take a top half finish as in reality we are a long way off the better teams in this league and as Steve L has always said he wants the club to be sustainable it would be mad to just throw money away again.

Away from OTIB people I’ve spoken to seem more angry with the delay than who gets the job. The board have certainly not covered themselves in glory over recent weeks and if it is to be Holden they need to just buckle up, take the flak and get on with it. Supporting this club is always more about the dashed hopes  than the achievements so nothing new there.
 

Are we supporters or customers ? We are both and always have been in my 55 years at the Gate but the customer experience is vastly improved. Is BCFC Steve’s toy to do with as he wants. Yes exactly as it was also Harry Dolmans when I started supporting. Crackers corner has been replaced by the keyboard warriors of OTIB but basically life goes on and I hope however disappointed people are that they can just get behind whoever gets the job well at least until the next bad run.

 

 

 

You're describing the world as it is - fully accept that. Fans have never chosen managers, SL can do what he likes, we'll get behind Holden if he is appointed, people vent on OTIB...

But my observation would be that 'life goes on' doesn't really capture the approach that most people take to supporting a football club. Few of us watch moments of glory and despair with no more than a shrug of the shoulders and a mutter to the chap next to us 'great goal...hey, life goes on...' There's a bit more passion to it than that. Hence the vociferous reactions to the current state of affairs.

We all passionately want the best for the club. The frustration lies in having endless promises of jam tomorrow...and precious few opportunities to taste it.

[GrahamC]

11 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

I agree Graham. Millen revisited but with a far more competent squad.

Which for me begs the question, given that relegation doesn't seem to be a severe risk, why, if we couldn't negotiate a deal with a Hughton, Cook or Neil we didn't go for a talented younger manager with proven managerial pedigree. One to develop for the future.

Holden has nothing in his track record to compete with even that chap Flynn...

I know, it is desperate.

We could have chosen from 10 that had better credentials & it is inconceivable all of those were unwilling to work under whatever constraints have put some off.

[supercidered]

2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Agreed - I'd definitely have Ryan Lowe over Holden. I don't know enough about Flynn to say the same for him, but we're in desperate need of a fresh perspective - Lansdown said as much. It's astonishing that we're just promoting members of the team who were part of the rot. 

I would have Arthur Lowe over Holden !

[soultrader]

12 minutes ago, Johnny Musicworks said:

Can someone please point me to the time when fans picked our manager. It may be my age but I can’t recall it. Holden would not have been my first choice but Hughton wouldn’t have been either. If the board pick Holden that’s fine by me as we missed our chance this year so next season in my opinion will be about trying to replace a few key players with young players or free signings which I suspect Hughton may struggle with. I would take a top half finish as in reality we are a long way off the better teams in this league and as Steve L has always said he wants the club to be sustainable it would be mad to just throw money away again.

Away from OTIB people I’ve spoken to seem more angry with the delay than who gets the job. The board have certainly not covered themselves in glory over recent weeks and if it is to be Holden they need to just buckle up, take the flak and get on with it. Supporting this club is always more about the dashed hopes  than the achievements so nothing new there.
 

Are we supporters or customers ? We are both and always have been in my 55 years at the Gate but the customer experience is vastly improved. Is BCFC Steve’s toy to do with as he wants. Yes exactly as it was also Harry Dolmans when I started supporting. Crackers corner has been replaced by the keyboard warriors of OTIB but basically life goes on and I hope however disappointed people are that they can just get behind whoever gets the job well at least until the next bad run.

 

 

 

John Ward

[Southport Red]

4 minutes ago, Johnny Musicworks said:

Can someone please point me to the time when fans picked our manager. It may be my age but I can’t recall it. Holden would not have been my first choice but Hughton wouldn’t have been either. If the board pick Holden that’s fine by me as we missed our chance this year so next season in my opinion will be about trying to replace a few key players with young players or free signings which I suspect Hughton may struggle with. I would take a top half finish as in reality we are a long way off the better teams in this league and as Steve L has always said he wants the club to be sustainable it would be mad to just throw money away again.

Away from OTIB people I’ve spoken to seem more angry with the delay than who gets the job. The board have certainly not covered themselves in glory over recent weeks and if it is to be Holden they need to just buckle up, take the flak and get on with it. Supporting this club is always more about the dashed hopes  than the achievements so nothing new there.
 

Are we supporters or customers ? We are both and always have been in my 55 years at the Gate but the customer experience is vastly improved. Is BCFC Steve’s toy to do with as he wants. Yes exactly as it was also Harry Dolmans when I started supporting. Crackers corner has been replaced by the keyboard warriors of OTIB but basically life goes on and I hope however disappointed people are that they can just get behind whoever gets the job well at least until the next bad run.

 

 

 

All very valid points Johnny. I think the difference nowadays is the breakdown in communications (since Adam left tbh). It was Dolman’s plaything and now it’s Steve’s you are right, but there are some differences. 
 

the last comms we had from Leadership was about ‘ambition’ and pushing on the the next level’, followed by five weeks of deafening silence on anything substantial and then (it seems) they are to appoint someone many feel was a co architect in a performance that the board themselves said was unacceptable). 
 

I understand the team I have loved for 55 years is SLs toy, I can watch him play with it but not play with it myself, but it is not good to feed supporters this grand dream and then go totally radio silent. 
 

Just issue a “sorry guys, we are being very thorough, these things are complex, won’t be long now” nothing type statement. It will be meaningless but at least they not be ignoring us. 
 

it feels like, because crowds are nit allowed in the ground anymore that the board have completely forgotten we even exist. 

[Blackbird1]

1 hour ago, SX227 said:

I can't think the LJ would feel anything other than absolute betrayal.

He was told he had failed by SL.

SL then replaces him with his 2 underlings and a guy who LJ gave a decent last payday to.

 

Again - either Holden and JMac went 'yes LJ great plan' - so are part of the problem

OR:

They thought LJ was a **** but just pretended to support him until SL gave them a go.

 

Either way, they look like a trio of chancers.

No wonder the players who are staying reportedly like the idea - the good ones are leaving, or have gone back on from loan.

Anyone see DaSilva, Baker, Moore,Massengo,Nagy,Palmer, Bentley or Kalas staying after this appointment?

 

They will want success with their wages, and all would be picked up by a top half championship team.

 

Leaving the 'busy-bees' who of course love the 3 new amigos - they can carrying on stealing a wage.

Andi W, O'Dowda, Patterson, Wells and Hunt start every week.

I'd rather Watkins and Rowe played - at least they try.

Could be a long season if this happens.

 

I cannot believe what SL has done to LJ if true....

Very harsh, I mentioned Loyalty should be rewarded, the fact that LJ's staff on the face of it supported the plan is a positive, OK they would have had issues, but Football management is very much a band of brothers thing, you just have to have unity from the coaches, after all they like us have bills to pay.

The more we move away from the initial Hughton ,Gerrad debacle the more pragmatic we become with DH becoming the boss,  and something inside me thinks it is worth a punt, the danger here is throwing the baby out with the bath water. 

You never know. 

[Nogbad the Bad]

1 hour ago, Ron Swanson said:

Sorry this just doesn’t wash. Why didn’t we just keep Johnson then?

Maybe more to it than poor results/lack of top 6 place?

Irreparable fall out with players or someone higher up?

We just don't know. 

[Harry]

1 hour ago, SX227 said:

Next tine you are working with LJ and trying to console the poor bastard over a pint whilst he is rocking back and forward sucking his thumb muttering "Holden,McAllister,Williams" over and over again.

LJ has been royally screwed-over here.

Those 3 either agreed with him, or didn't and said nothing.

There's a word for those 3 - ask LJ what it is, Will.

I can see what you’re trying to do, and it’s an admirable effort, Doc.

But I can assure you, LJ was not KITR’s insider. In fact, go back 2 years and you’ll find KITR called for a boycott if LJ remained in charge. 

[soultrader]

25 minutes ago, TedsHeadIs Red said:

Isn’t it better to vent feelings about an actual appointment rather than a speculative one?

Even then, isn’t it better to vent feelings about actual performances rather than speculative ones?

You're new here aren't you?

[Bat Fastard]

5 minutes ago, Galway Red said:

Oh no, you're awake

Oh yes - now please put me on ignore if you have nothing interesting to contribute.

[ReggyRed]

5 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Agreed - I'd definitely have Ryan Lowe over Holden. I don't know enough about Flynn to say the same for him, but we're in desperate need of a fresh perspective - Lansdown said as much. It's astonishing that we're just promoting members of the team who were part of the rot. 

I would love Ryan Lowe over Holden. Achieved promotions already. I don’t understand why we have to be a club which gives managers a chance to learn their trade. 

[Red Exile]

1 minute ago, Blackbird1 said:

You never know. 

...you can have a guess though can't you!

 

[Harry]

1 hour ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

 

If memory serves, four and a half years back, in the midst and the eye of a now familiar OTIB fury and storm four - and a furious, foamingThatch35 - Harry did head into that wind and opine: "this could work." as all around laid waste to the unfolding realisation that LJ was coming back.

And it's what this forum badly needs. 

Only, what does "do well" mean? Not be relegated? Finish top six? Get over the line? Like "could work," "do well" is a little vague, and we demand more detail....

Ok, you got me. 
I’ll have to expand on my “could do well” comment. 
How about “This could work”

[collier]

12 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

I think you have worked it out Collier. We should all go and jump off the suspension bridge because we have no future.  Anyone who tries to look at the bright side is a deluded fool.  Of course you are right. Jumping off the bridge is the smart thing to do!......I suggest you jump first!

You really should be careful mate. If I put you on ignore like everybody else you will be left circle jerking by yourself. Doubt it would be the first time!

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Kibs said:

I agree, it's a massive concern. I'm clinging to the hope that they were all coaching within LJs complicated structure/tactics which seemed overly focused on the opposition, and seemed to restrict the players of any freedom or ability to think for themselves.  

I thought the players looked far less inhibited/rigid under Holden. Wasn’t perfect but a lot better than large periods of the previous 18 months under LJ. 

1 hour ago, Bobbie said:

My frustration is not the thought of us appointing Holden. I think in the current circumstances it probably makes sense and although people say he was part of a failed time under Johnson I think that’s unfair. We improved as a squad and club under Johnson’s regime. The issue with Johnson is he seemed to lose some of the dressing room, notably Palmer and Eliasson. But also by previously shifting on popular Important players Like Pack and Pato (on loan), I got the sense he realised it was getting stale and the players were beginning to not listen to his corporate over complicated language. I think in the last few games we did get a sense that Holden would do things his own way and was able to mix it up a bit. If he was immediately appointed permanent manager after Lee’s sacking I think, while being a little disappointed, the vast majority of fans would understand the current situation and accept it. 
 

The frustration comes in the ridiculous time it has taken. If it is true that this announcement is on hold because Holden is on holiday in Kent that that is so bizarre and tin pot it becomes quite a major worry. It’s not like he’s being promoted to manager of Asda. He is going to become the figurehead of club with a huge following that deserve to be kept in the loop. 3/4 hour drive, quick press conference and he would be back in his caravan the same day. The time this has taken to be announced does not make sense and suggests there have been major issues and failings in this process. Probably failings that we will never be told but until we are the criticism of Ashton and Jon Lansdown will rightly continue.  

I agree. LJ has gone stale. His reaction was to put that down to players, when it was him that needed to freshen up / reinvent himself. 

[Red Exile]

9 minutes ago, Southport Red said:

it feels like, because crowds are nit allowed in the ground anymore that the board have completely forgotten we even exist. 

Be fair - in the season to come we will exist...as photos in Downsy's little round up - many of which are the same photos as last week because nobody gives two hoots about Downsy and no one sends them in...and we'll exist in Lisa Knights' introductions and links 'we all know that you out there blah, blah' - when we all suspect that Lisa knows next to no City fans at all!

 

[Bat Fastard]

2 minutes ago, collier said:

You really should be careful mate. If I put you on ignore like everybody else you will be left circle jerking by yourself. Doubt it would be the first time!

I am not familiar with the term, perhaps you could enlighten us as you are clearly an expert.