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Dean Holden (Merged)


Bcfcbackwell

If we appoint Holden I will...   

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If the board interview a group of managers and realise that Holden is in their opinion the best available, that’s good enough for me.  Due diligence dictates you have to speak to others before deciding.  If Holden turns them down they move on to their next choice 

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4 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Nah, Macca’s gone because he wouldn’t be in Holden’s plans..

Holden would have told the club who he wanted to help him, if he got the job

That’s my take on it too. And in a way, I hope that’s how it panned out. 

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Holden and Ashton to an extent are on a hiding to nothing if this doesn't work out and if it doesn't both should go. 

I'm just not excited by a guy who has a record of 20 games 5 wins 7 draws and 8 defeats. Hypothetically if that was a championship season we double that so its 40 games 10 wins 14 draws and 16 defeats and then in the last 6 1 win 2 draws and 3 defeats that would leave us on 49 points. This season that would be one point above the relegation zone. 

We all know when it's officially announced we'll get the whole "he was the best candidate for the job" but was he? Chris Hughton, Paul Cook, Mark Robins, Steven Gerrard all names linked to us all better candidates imo. 

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9 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Having sat in the garden and sunk a few ciders and a bit of vino until now, I have thought it through - maybe a bit of a drunken haze, but no worse than the arseholes who have been deliberating for five weeks.

They get rid of Macca and THEN offer the job to Holden - so Holden had no choice in Macca's future, his colleague.

Now, if I was Holden, I'd be thinking "just who will be running the show - me or Ashton if he can hire and fire without my input"

Whats the ****** point in being head honcho if its in name only - why not let Ashton be manager, he wants to be in charge of everything obviously ? 

Thats what I'd be thinking through this weekend - and I would come to the conclusion that I really don't want to be a puppet thanks very much and take all the flak thats coming my way, you have some of that Ashton.

Find someone else, I'll stay as care taker until you find a mug and then I'll move on.

(best of luck in finding someone by the way after this absolute shambles)

How do you know it was done without his input? His requirement to take the job may have been to bring his own assistant - in which case Macca has to go first and probably would have been kept quiet until the official announcement. This is all part of the same deal, not one acting without the others agreement

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I think this is a poor appointment, in fact it is a horrendous appointment. What has Holden done to deserve the role? Nothing - no record so to speak of as a player, coach or manager. It is like giving the reigns of your brand new Audi R8 to your 16 old child who has just passed there driving test. I feel sorry for Holden. He is now under pressure through no fault of his own and this is a big job. It is vital that he gets a good start to the season or the knives will be out for him. All we can do is voice our discontent and then support the man. But for me, there were plenty of candidates with experience to take us forward and that is what is needed. What I am most puzzled by is Steve Lansdown - he goes on radio and says they want someone to take the club to the next step to the PL. There is nothing at all which says Holden can do this. In fact, he was part of the structure that failed. Sadly, those running the club are making poor decisions again.    

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5 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

How do you know it was done without his input? His requirement to take the job may have been to bring his own assistant - in which case Macca has to go first and probably would have been kept quiet until the official announcement. This is all part of the same deal, not one acting without the others agreement

I don't.

But the chronological order dictates that Macca went and then Holden gets the offer - and he will think about it over the weekend, not automatically accept the offer. Which indicates to me that he has some doubts about accepting the offer. It wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't even know who he will get as an assistant - until he's told.

Either way, I don't really care - its a right **** up by Ashton.

I have nothing at all against Holden, he is a very decent honest bloke and I will support him if he takes the job, I'm also not saying he'll do badly in the role, just that the club  Ashton had a great opportunity to show some ambition and failed miserably. 

I am convinced that Ashton is the barrier to getting someone in - he doesn't want to lose control, he wants a puppet in the role.

 

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25 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Yes

 

Millions...................Mainly covering his own crap decisions employing the underperforming 

If Dean Holden accepts the job, he will start with a clean sheet and there has been no evidence that he has underperformed.  Hopefully you are a fair minded chap and will give him a chance to show what he can do - and hopefully give him plenty of encouraging support.

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1 minute ago, bcfc01 said:

I don't.

But the chronological order dictates that Macca went and then Holden gets the offer - and he will think about it over the weekend, not automatically accept the offer. Which indicates to me that he has some doubts about accepting the offer. It wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't even know who he will get as an assistant - until he's told.

Either way, I don't really care - its a right **** up by Ashton.

I have nothing at all against Holden, he is a very decent honest bloke and I will support him if he takes the job, I'm also not saying he'll do badly in the role, just that the club  Ashton had a great opportunity to show some ambition and failed miserably. 

I am convinced that Ashton is the barrier to getting someone in - he doesn't want to lose control, he wants a puppet in the role.

 

Surely Lansdown pulls the strings and gets the final say.

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3 hours ago, bris red said:

Oh **** off

Interesting to see that the likes of Aaron Wilbraham and Gary Owers both reckon DH would make a decent appointment but the hysterical keyboard warriers think their opinion is superior. 

The Club haven't helped matters with zero communications and with their apparent consideration of bigger names (Gerard, Hughton etc) whose salaries might be affordable but whose likely transfer budget demands aren't. 

We know there will be a limited transfer fee budget for any new Head Coach so someone who is willing to work within that, trade some of the more valuable players with expiring contracts and use emerging young talent is the best choice.   Either you want the Club to do dodgy dealings like Derby or you accept that the budget will be tight and have some understanding that it requires a Head Coach willing to operate in this context.  I doubt whether the likes of Hughton would agree to such restrictions.

I think if there were more transparency and better communications from the Club (come back Adam Baker) then most fans would understand, accept and support DH or at least give him a chance.  The sad thing is that Holden is likely to see the vitriol and put his family first and then the Club will probably make a much worse appointment with an external candidate such as Michael Flynn.   

Nobody knows whether Dean will make a success of the job if he opts to ignore the vitriol and accepts.  One thing for sure is that if he does accept the offer then his job will be ten times more difficult unless supporters give him a chance. 

The Club could help by giving a lot more transparency on things like the job description including the Head Coach's role in player recruitment and outward transfers.  The absence of any communications and transparency is probably down to Mark Ashton being a bit of a control freak and that's not going to help fans understand and accept an appointment they weren't anticipating.

I still think the appointment is a sensible one in the context of the financial limitations the Club will have to operate under next season.  I also think DH will push for the play-offs playing more attractive football than LJ.  Fans are entitled to have different viewpoints without going over the top with hysteria and vitriol.  Frankly that's a bit embarrassing as it's only a game after all. 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

If Dean Holden accepts the job, he will start with a clean sheet and there has been no evidence that he has underperformed.  Hopefully you are a fair minded chap and will give him a chance to show what he can do - and hopefully give him plenty of encouraging support.

Im awaiting confirmation before deciding what im going to do

Your misty eyed views on anything the Club do are in some ways admirable but mine have worn more than thin for me now

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4 minutes ago, Redrascal2 said:

Surely Lansdown pulls the strings and gets the final say.

So why have a CEO paid hundreds of thousands a year ?

He pays him to make the right decisions for the club.

Mores the pity.

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13 minutes ago, TheJudge07 said:

I think this is a poor appointment, in fact it is a horrendous appointment. What has Holden done to deserve the role? Nothing - no record so to speak of as a player, coach or manager. It is like giving the reigns of your brand new Audi R8 to your 16 old child who has just passed there driving test. I feel sorry for Holden. He is now under pressure through no fault of his own and this is a big job. It is vital that he gets a good start to the season or the knives will be out for him. All we can do is voice our discontent and then support the man. But for me, there were plenty of candidates with experience to take us forward and that is what is needed. What I am most puzzled by is Steve Lansdown - he goes on radio and says they want someone to take the club to the next step to the PL. There is nothing at all which says Holden can do this. In fact, he was part of the structure that failed. Sadly, those running the club are making poor decisions again.    

nail....head. What I wonder is if/when DH gets the bullet....who takes over then????

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Random thought - but I wonder how this appointment will be viewed by BLM/Kick It Out with all the recent discussion around lack of BAME managers?
 

I don’t mean to suggest that race came into this at all and I’m certainly not looking to stir up trouble, but with everything that’s gone on lately I wouldn’t be surprised to see the club under the spotlight. 
 

Would be embarrassing to see sky sports news debating why else Hughton was overlooked for Holden. We all know it’s typical City, but outsiders may conclude otherwise. 

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6 minutes ago, bcfcnick said:

Interesting to see that the likes of Aaron Wilbraham and Gary Owers both reckon DH would make a decent appointment but the hysterical keyboard warriers think their opinion is superior. 

The Club haven't helped matters with zero communications and with their apparent consideration of bigger names (Gerard, Hughton etc) whose salaries might be affordable but whose likely transfer budget demands aren't. 

We know there will be a limited transfer fee budget for any new Head Coach so someone who is willing to work within that, trade some of the more valuable players with expiring contracts and use emerging young talent is the best choice.   Either you want the Club to do dodgy dealings like Derby or you accept that the budget will be tight and have some understanding that it requires a Head Coach willing to operate in this context.  I doubt whether the likes of Hughton would agree to such restrictions.

I think if there were more transparency and better communications from the Club (come back Adam Baker) then most fans would understand, accept and support DH or at least give him a chance.  The sad thing is that Holden is likely to see the vitriol and put his family first and then the Club will probably make a much worse appointment with an external candidate such as Michael Flynn.   

Nobody knows whether Dean will make a success of the job if he opts to ignore the vitriol and accepts.  One thing for sure is that if he does accept the offer then his job will be ten times more difficult unless supporters give him a chance. 

The Club could help by giving a lot more transparency on things like the job description including the Head Coach's role in player recruitment and outward transfers.  The absence of any communications and transparency is probably down to Mark Ashton being a bit of a control freak and that's not going to help fans understand and accept an appointment they weren't anticipating.

I still think the appointment is a sensible one in the context of the financial limitations the Club will have to operate under next season.  I also think DH will push for the play-offs playing more attractive football than LJ.  Fans are entitled to have different viewpoints without going over the top with hysteria and vitriol.  Frankly that's a bit embarrassing as it's only a game after all. 

 

 

'I also think DH will push for the play-offs playing more attractive football than LJ'

 

Based on ??

 

 

Blind hope ?

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Just now, Matty Taylors a Red said:

Random thought - but I wonder how this appointment will be viewed by BLM/Kick It Out with all the recent discussion around lack of BAME managers?
 

I don’t mean to suggest that race came into this at all and I’m certainly not looking to stir up trouble, but with everything that’s gone on lately I wouldn’t be surprised to see the club under the spotlight. 
 

Would be embarrassing to see sky sports news debating why else Hughton was overlooked for Holden. We all know it’s typical City, but outsiders may conclude otherwise. 

nah, they'll just consider it typical City. I understand what you say though

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1 hour ago, Keith Welch said:

I wonder if expectations will be relaxed due to the current climate.

I know all clubs are in the same position but the new manager obviously isn't going to have the funds to bring in the players he wants.

I highly doubt SL will be demanding promotion from Holden this season.

A more attractive/exciting style of football is a must though.

Be interesting does he have any contacts regarding players  joe Royles not at Oldham now ?

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1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Are so many posters assuming that Deano will become the new Head Coach?    :dunno:

All I’ve seen is social media stating that he’s going to be appointed and yet there is absolutely no mention on the OS of either Macca’s sacking or Holden getting the job.

It seems to me that it’s a lot of wild speculation based on pretty much no evidence unless you consider GMG a reliable source.
 

or SSN as it was on there.

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5 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

'I also think DH will push for the play-offs playing more attractive football than LJ'

 

Based on ??

 

 

Blind hope ?

Based on him getting the best out of at least five players and especially Paterson who played sublimely at times for Holden.  Also his points tally based on five games would be 73 - enough to get us in the play-offs.

Your reasoning why he wouldn't?  Aside from being a glass half-empty misery of course.

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7 minutes ago, bcfcnick said:

Interesting to see that the likes of Aaron Wilbraham and Gary Owers both reckon DH would make a decent appointment but the hysterical keyboard warriers think their opinion is superior. 

The Club haven't helped matters with zero communications and with their apparent consideration of bigger names (Gerard, Hughton etc) whose salaries might be affordable but whose likely transfer budget demands aren't. 

We know there will be a limited transfer fee budget for any new Head Coach so someone who is willing to work within that, trade some of the more valuable players with expiring contracts and use emerging young talent is the best choice.   Either you want the Club to do dodgy dealings like Derby or you accept that the budget will be tight and have some understanding that it requires a Head Coach willing to operate in this context.  I doubt whether the likes of Hughton would agree to such restrictions.

I think if there were more transparency and better communications from the Club (come back Adam Baker) then most fans would understand, accept and support DH or at least give him a chance.  The sad thing is that Holden is likely to see the vitriol and put his family first and then the Club will probably make a much worse appointment with an external candidate such as Michael Flynn.   

Nobody knows whether Dean will make a success of the job if he opts to ignore the vitriol and accepts.  One thing for sure is that if he does accept the offer then his job will be ten times more difficult unless supporters give him a chance. 

The Club could help by giving a lot more transparency on things like the job description including the Head Coach's role in player recruitment and outward transfers.  The absence of any communications and transparency is probably down to Mark Ashton being a bit of a control freak and that's not going to help fans understand and accept an appointment they weren't anticipating.

I still think the appointment is a sensible one in the context of the financial limitations the Club will have to operate under next season.  I also think DH will push for the play-offs playing more attractive football than LJ.  Fans are entitled to have different viewpoints without going over the top with hysteria and vitriol.  Frankly that's a bit embarrassing as it's only a game after all. 

 

 

I don't agree with lots of this but it's a really balanced post which has been missing a bit in recent days. I think the issue many of us have is that, had Holden been appointed immediately - say on a 12 month deal - with the club being very clear about the restrictions the pandemic brought about, many who have understood it. Instead, Lansdown and Ashton take to the media to brag about the candidates who have applied, talk about change etc. Did they not consider that an established manager might want to spend some money on players? Did coronavirus pass them by until after they'd sacked Johnson? And then, when they finally arrived on their man, how on earth did the media team allow a leak whereby someone who was probably our third choice candidate (at best) indicated that he might not even take the job that's been offered to him. It has been an utter shambles from start to finish and could cost the club dear for years to come. People - understandably - scoffed at the prospect that Hughton might choose Birmingham over us given the state of them as a club. Now it is us that looks completely unprofessional and inept. 

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