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Dean Holden (Merged)


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If we appoint Holden I will...   

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24 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

⬇️⬇️⬇️


I was.  Wasn’t perfect.  I’ve posted lots on here why.  Happy for you to disagree.

Was actually 5 games, 2 wins, 2 draws and one defeat.  I really get frustrated by “beat relegation candidates”.  Those teams were scrapping for their lives....the teams that usually beat us....one of them a Warnock team, he will have ingrained it into his Boro team how important it was to beat that “cheating Bristol club”.  Never take for granted any point (or three) earned in the Championship.

A draw against Stoke, who then went on to beat Brentford and stuff Forest.  It looked a tired performance from both sides, but we weren’t dominated, we have 64% possession, we made 550 passes  at 83% success, followed by 513 versus Swansea at 85%.  Our average for the season was 362 at 78% under LJ.  Only once this season did an LJ team manage 500+ passes.

I admit we weren’t clinical with our final ball,but that can be worked on.

Agree, spoken to him a few times, a couple of times at real length about all sorts (not liquorice).  He will be judged on player ins and outs and results....not now.

You would imagine letting Korey go gives scope to go and get the central midfielder we need.  It seems clear that 352 is his system so we will play 3 CMs of varying roles.  It will be a squad game with condensed fixtures, especially if we progress in cups.

We have Morrell, Nagy, Walsh, Massengo competing for 2 of the roles predominantly.  I think this is where we will look to get our equivalent of Dale Stephens / Will Vaulks type CM.  I do not think it will be Vyner.

And we have Paterson, Palmer and Szmodics for the other spot.

Had Smith re-signed, I think it really would close the door on bringing in a new CM.

Perhaps this could be a case of better the devil you know. With KS you know exactly what you are getting. He can be leaned on in so many different ways.

I am sure they have a succession plan. (.... Well you hope they have a succession plan)

Interesting times ahead for sure. 

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Lets judge holden on results,

he deserves that much,

let's also not forget being lied too by our owner and ceo, they have a lot of making up to do,

I dont think they will ever fully win back the trust of supporters after this sadly, definitely not mine 

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1 hour ago, Monkeh said:

Lets judge holden on results,

he deserves that much,

let's also not forget being lied too by our owner and ceo, they have a lot of making up to do,

I dont think they will ever fully win back the trust of supporters after this sadly, definitely not mine 

I think you're right. For any fans that didn't already have a lot of skepticism about the Lansdowns/Ashton most probably do now. 

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7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

⬇️⬇️⬇️


I was.  Wasn’t perfect.  I’ve posted lots on here why.  Happy for you to disagree.

Was actually 5 games, 2 wins, 2 draws and one defeat.  I really get frustrated by “beat relegation candidates”.  Those teams were scrapping for their lives....the teams that usually beat us....one of them a Warnock team, he will have ingrained it into his Boro team how important it was to beat that “cheating Bristol club”.  Never take for granted any point (or three) earned in the Championship.

A draw against Stoke, who then went on to beat Brentford and stuff Forest.  It looked a tired performance from both sides, but we weren’t dominated, we have 64% possession, we made 550 passes  at 83% success, followed by 513 versus Swansea at 85%.  Our average for the season was 362 at 78% under LJ.  Only once this season did an LJ team manage 500+ passes.

I admit we weren’t clinical with our final ball,but that can be worked on.

Agree, spoken to him a few times, a couple of times at real length about all sorts (not liquorice).  He will be judged on player ins and outs and results....not now.

You would imagine letting Korey go gives scope to go and get the central midfielder we need.  It seems clear that 352 is his system so we will play 3 CMs of varying roles.  It will be a squad game with condensed fixtures, especially if we progress in cups.

We have Morrell, Nagy, Walsh, Massengo competing for 2 of the roles predominantly.  I think this is where we will look to get our equivalent of Dale Stephens / Will Vaulks type CM.  I do not think it will be Vyner.

And we have Paterson, Palmer and Szmodics for the other spot.

Had Smith re-signed, I think it really would close the door on bringing in a new CM.

Imagine having to rely on Palmer, Szmodics, Nagy and Massengo to get you promoted. 

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1 hour ago, Monkeh said:

Lets judge holden on results,

he deserves that much,

let's also not forget being lied too by our owner and ceo, they have a lot of making up to do,

I dont think they will ever fully win back the trust of supporters after this sadly, definitely not mine 

If Holden does badly Lansdown will have to sack MA. Otherwise can see it getting very ugly. 

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7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

⬇️⬇️⬇️


I was.  Wasn’t perfect.  I’ve posted lots on here why.  Happy for you to disagree.

Was actually 5 games, 2 wins, 2 draws and one defeat.  I really get frustrated by “beat relegation candidates”.  Those teams were scrapping for their lives....the teams that usually beat us....one of them a Warnock team, he will have ingrained it into his Boro team how important it was to beat that “cheating Bristol club”.  Never take for granted any point (or three) earned in the Championship.

A draw against Stoke, who then went on to beat Brentford and stuff Forest.  It looked a tired performance from both sides, but we weren’t dominated, we have 64% possession, we made 550 passes  at 83% success, followed by 513 versus Swansea at 85%.  Our average for the season was 362 at 78% under LJ.  Only once this season did an LJ team manage 500+ passes.

I admit we weren’t clinical with our final ball,but that can be worked on.

Agree, spoken to him a few times, a couple of times at real length about all sorts (not liquorice).  He will be judged on player ins and outs and results....not now.

You would imagine letting Korey go gives scope to go and get the central midfielder we need.  It seems clear that 352 is his system so we will play 3 CMs of varying roles.  It will be a squad game with condensed fixtures, especially if we progress in cups.

We have Morrell, Nagy, Walsh, Massengo competing for 2 of the roles predominantly.  I think this is where we will look to get our equivalent of Dale Stephens / Will Vaulks type CM.  I do not think it will be Vyner.

And we have Paterson, Palmer and Szmodics for the other spot.

Had Smith re-signed, I think it really would close the door on bringing in a new CM.

Agree with a lot you say Dave.

How many people on here expected us to beat Warnock's Boro? Everything pointed to a defeat didn't it? We had nothing to play for in most people's eyes, Warnock new in the job and Boro fighting for survival. I expected us to get beat. That is a good result and shouldn't be downplayed by being relegation candidates, they beat Millwall away the game before us (admittedly maybe not the same prospect as if they'd had a full ground)

I wouldn't say I was blown away by the performances in those games with DH, but they were a marked improvement and a bit more freedom was clearly offered to the players.

Personally my thoughts on this appointment have changed the more I've had time to think about it. I think it could be a really positive decision.

No-one seems to have considered that perhaps the reason for the delay is that the board did their interview process expecting to name Hughton/Cook or similar but Holden applied and they offered him an interview out of respect for the work he's done. They'll know Dean a lot better than any of us will and whether he was a plausible candidate or not even worth the time to interview and that's how a lot of companies go about recruitment (admittedly football is different)

Perhaps DH interviewed or presented himself in a way that actually surprised the board? Maybe they hadn't expected such a strong interview from him and hence they had to reconsider their thinking? If he's come to the interview with a detailed analysis of what went right, what went wrong, areas of the team that need improving and how he sees that happening, a list of potential staff to work with him (lets make no mistake, those appointments arent random - some serious thinking has gone into that from someone!) then maybe he's earned this shot?

Let's consider that DH has been here long enough to know the players very well. He will have watched the way LJ handled players, and perhaps seen the fall outs and the mishandling. Now we all know LJ has more than a little ego to him and based on the David Noble podcast his dad wasn't a brilliant man-manager (comments about treating everyone the same and some didnt react well to that) and LJ's own comments lead me to believe he comes from a bit of the old-school management style himself.

Perhaps DH is thinking actually, we have a really talented bunch of lads who do actually look bloody good in training but then when it comes to match day are frozen in fear of doing wrong, or just pure confusion at what LJ has been asking of them? If he has that rapport with the more isolated players e.g. KP, and knows how to talk to them and get the best out of them then that could go a long way.

I'm actually a little more optimistic about this than I was a week or so ago. I also liked that he acknowledged how difficult his position is and the lack of support - though make no mistake any anger should be directed at the board and NOT at DH. DH should be supported by the fans, its in all of our interests for him to do well.

Bring on the season IMO, and if we can hit the ground running with some good results before the fans hopefully start returning late in the year he might have earned a bit of the supporters trust back

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7 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

Imagine having to rely on Palmer, Szmodics, Nagy and Massengo to get you promoted. 

No worries. 

We've got CoD who’ll be in there with his battling play, brilliant distribution, heading ability, leadership qualities and regular goals/assists. He’s the dominant midfield general we’ve been looking for during the past 4 years.  

After all, why else did MA offer him a lucrative extension to his contract? 

We’ll be just fine.

Trust Mark, he’s our football man and with an army of analysts,  what could possibly go wrong. 

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11 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

Imagine having to rely on Palmer, Szmodics, Nagy and Massengo to get you promoted. 

Palmer who's been promoted to the Prem, Massengo who has played champions league football and Nagy who is an internation footballer. Far worse options around...

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6 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Palmer who's been promoted to the Prem, Massengo who has played champions league football and Nagy who is an internation footballer. Far worse options around...

Lee. Give up mate.

 

Your midfield ‘mix’ was the worst I’ve witnessed in watching football. Load of lightweight headless chickens, who couldn’t put a tackle in to save their lives, let alone manage to successfully deliver an accurate forward pass to a team mate. A won header and a goal, but a distant memory. 

Hopeless. Rip it up and start againi

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15 minutes ago, samo II said:

Be interesting to see how quick and how we move in the market now.

Wonder if we have people lined up or we start from scratch now.

Not a huge amount of time available.

We’ve got 9 weeks ish so hopefully should be okay, dean should have a clear idea of the type of player he’s after 

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2 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Lee. Give up mate.

 

Your midfield ‘mix’ was the worst I’ve witnessed in watching football. Load of lightweight headless chickens, who couldn’t put a tackle in to save their lives, let alone manage to successfully deliver an accurate forward pass to a team mate. A won header and a goal, but a distant memory. 

Hopeless. Rip it up and start againi

the problem with this was they were instructed not to put a tackle in, they were instructed to sit back and wait for a mistake until the final 5 games of the season

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Just now, Monkeh said:

the problem with this was they were instructed not to put a tackle in, they wrote instructed to sit back and wait for a mistake until the final 5 games of the season

Maybe true.

The key question then is, are any of them capable of making a tackle without breaking? Have serious doubts myself. Nagy in particular. 

 

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4 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Maybe true.

The key question then is, are any of them capable of making a tackle without breaking? Have serious doubts myself. Nagy in particular. 

 

nagy has the qualities to break up play if used correctly, he's proven that on the international stage,

He is a quality midfielder when utilised correcty

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21 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Palmer who's been promoted to the Prem, Massengo who has played champions league football and Nagy who is an internation footballer. Far worse options around...

Think that's gonna be one of the most important aspects in whether or not Holden can be successful here. Can he get the best out of the likes of Kalas, Nagy and Palmer. 

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59 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Agree with a lot you say Dave.

How many people on here expected us to beat Warnock's Boro? Everything pointed to a defeat didn't it? We had nothing to play for in most people's eyes, Warnock new in the job and Boro fighting for survival. I expected us to get beat. That is a good result and shouldn't be downplayed by being relegation candidates, they beat Millwall away the game before us (admittedly maybe not the same prospect as if they'd had a full ground)

I wouldn't say I was blown away by the performances in those games with DH, but they were a marked improvement and a bit more freedom was clearly offered to the players.

Personally my thoughts on this appointment have changed the more I've had time to think about it. I think it could be a really positive decision.

No-one seems to have considered that perhaps the reason for the delay is that the board did their interview process expecting to name Hughton/Cook or similar but Holden applied and they offered him an interview out of respect for the work he's done. They'll know Dean a lot better than any of us will and whether he was a plausible candidate or not even worth the time to interview and that's how a lot of companies go about recruitment (admittedly football is different)

Perhaps DH interviewed or presented himself in a way that actually surprised the board? Maybe they hadn't expected such a strong interview from him and hence they had to reconsider their thinking? If he's come to the interview with a detailed analysis of what went right, what went wrong, areas of the team that need improving and how he sees that happening, a list of potential staff to work with him (lets make no mistake, those appointments arent random - some serious thinking has gone into that from someone!) then maybe he's earned this shot?

Let's consider that DH has been here long enough to know the players very well. He will have watched the way LJ handled players, and perhaps seen the fall outs and the mishandling. Now we all know LJ has more than a little ego to him and based on the David Noble podcast his dad wasn't a brilliant man-manager (comments about treating everyone the same and some didnt react well to that) and LJ's own comments lead me to believe he comes from a bit of the old-school management style himself.

Perhaps DH is thinking actually, we have a really talented bunch of lads who do actually look bloody good in training but then when it comes to match day are frozen in fear of doing wrong, or just pure confusion at what LJ has been asking of them? If he has that rapport with the more isolated players e.g. KP, and knows how to talk to them and get the best out of them then that could go a long way.

I'm actually a little more optimistic about this than I was a week or so ago. I also liked that he acknowledged how difficult his position is and the lack of support - though make no mistake any anger should be directed at the board and NOT at DH. DH should be supported by the fans, its in all of our interests for him to do well.

Bring on the season IMO, and if we can hit the ground running with some good results before the fans hopefully start returning late in the year he might have earned a bit of the supporters trust back

Brilliant post!

Echoes many of my own views. Actually woke up buzzing for the new season this morning, really excited to see what Dean can do to take us forward!

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49 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Lee. Give up mate.

 

Your midfield ‘mix’ was the worst I’ve witnessed in watching football. Load of lightweight headless chickens, who couldn’t put a tackle in to save their lives, let alone manage to successfully deliver an accurate forward pass to a team mate. A won header and a goal, but a distant memory. 

Hopeless. Rip it up and start againi

I agree, it was but I don't think that was totally down to the players. Get a more physical presence in there and give KP some freedom and I think we'll see improvements

41 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

nagy has the qualities to break up play if used correctly, he's proven that on the international stage,

He is a quality midfielder when utilised correcty

He also proved it at the start of the season until it was coached out of him, Massengo didn't shirk from a tackle then either

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1 hour ago, samo II said:

Ah fair play.

Yeah last season it was voted to move the window back to in line with Europe ie end of August/start of September, so while not ideal to bring players in after the season has started nothing really about this season will be ideal. Would've thought recruitment guys would have been working on the assumption of Holden and his targets/type of player he wants/positions he would want to strengthen at the back end of the season anyway until something changed such as different man in charge.

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2 hours ago, AshtonGreat said:

Imagine having to rely on Palmer, Szmodics, Nagy and Massengo to get you promoted. 

3 of those players played a lot of minutes early in the season when over the first 22 games we spent 12 games in the top 6. ??‍♂️

2 hours ago, RedRock said:

No worries. 

We've got CoD who’ll be in there with his battling play, brilliant distribution, heading ability, leadership qualities and regular goals/assists. He’s the dominant midfield general we’ve been looking for during the past 4 years.  

After all, why else did MA offer him a lucrative extension to his contract? 

We’ll be just fine.

Trust Mark, he’s our football man and with an army of analysts,  what could possibly go wrong. 

I think he might be one of the casualties of Holden’s era.  Picked as a starter post-covid in every game by LJ.  Bench for every game under Holden (6 min and 7 min sub only).  352, no wingers?  If we could get £2m, I’d be very happy.

2 hours ago, MarcusX said:

Palmer who's been promoted to the Prem, Massengo who has played champions league football and Nagy who is an internation footballer. Far worse options around...

Plus it’s gonna be a squad game next season....lots more Sat Tues Sat Tues, plus if we progress in cup comps too.

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9 hours ago, MarcusX said:

Agree with a lot you say Dave.

How many people on here expected us to beat Warnock's Boro? Everything pointed to a defeat didn't it? We had nothing to play for in most people's eyes, Warnock new in the job and Boro fighting for survival. I expected us to get beat. That is a good result and shouldn't be downplayed by being relegation candidates, they beat Millwall away the game before us (admittedly maybe not the same prospect as if they'd had a full ground)

I wouldn't say I was blown away by the performances in those games with DH, but they were a marked improvement and a bit more freedom was clearly offered to the players.

Personally my thoughts on this appointment have changed the more I've had time to think about it. I think it could be a really positive decision.

No-one seems to have considered that perhaps the reason for the delay is that the board did their interview process expecting to name Hughton/Cook or similar but Holden applied and they offered him an interview out of respect for the work he's done. They'll know Dean a lot better than any of us will and whether he was a plausible candidate or not even worth the time to interview and that's how a lot of companies go about recruitment (admittedly football is different)

Perhaps DH interviewed or presented himself in a way that actually surprised the board? Maybe they hadn't expected such a strong interview from him and hence they had to reconsider their thinking? If he's come to the interview with a detailed analysis of what went right, what went wrong, areas of the team that need improving and how he sees that happening, a list of potential staff to work with him (lets make no mistake, those appointments arent random - some serious thinking has gone into that from someone!) then maybe he's earned this shot?

Let's consider that DH has been here long enough to know the players very well. He will have watched the way LJ handled players, and perhaps seen the fall outs and the mishandling. Now we all know LJ has more than a little ego to him and based on the David Noble podcast his dad wasn't a brilliant man-manager (comments about treating everyone the same and some didnt react well to that) and LJ's own comments lead me to believe he comes from a bit of the old-school management style himself.

Perhaps DH is thinking actually, we have a really talented bunch of lads who do actually look bloody good in training but then when it comes to match day are frozen in fear of doing wrong, or just pure confusion at what LJ has been asking of them? If he has that rapport with the more isolated players e.g. KP, and knows how to talk to them and get the best out of them then that could go a long way.

I'm actually a little more optimistic about this than I was a week or so ago. I also liked that he acknowledged how difficult his position is and the lack of support - though make no mistake any anger should be directed at the board and NOT at DH. DH should be supported by the fans, its in all of our interests for him to do well.

Bring on the season IMO, and if we can hit the ground running with some good results before the fans hopefully start returning late in the year he might have earned a bit of the supporters trust back

Furthermore, DH will be fully aware of the requirements / restrictions / protocols the Board impose on the Head Coach, in order to ensure a sustainable approach. Others interviewed would not have such an understanding and I suspect for some candidates this would have been a deal breaker. 

As with everything only time will tell whether this is a disaster, a master stroke or something akin to treading water and buying time.  

Whatever else we might get DH certainly presents as a non-BS bloke, where you get a straight answer to a question and a considered response, which is at least one big breath of fresh air when compared to his predecessor. 

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On 11/08/2020 at 09:23, MarcusX said:

Agree with a lot you say Dave.

How many people on here expected us to beat Warnock's Boro? Everything pointed to a defeat didn't it? We had nothing to play for in most people's eyes, Warnock new in the job and Boro fighting for survival. I expected us to get beat. That is a good result and shouldn't be downplayed by being relegation candidates, they beat Millwall away the game before us (admittedly maybe not the same prospect as if they'd had a full ground)

I wouldn't say I was blown away by the performances in those games with DH, but they were a marked improvement and a bit more freedom was clearly offered to the players.

Personally my thoughts on this appointment have changed the more I've had time to think about it. I think it could be a really positive decision.

No-one seems to have considered that perhaps the reason for the delay is that the board did their interview process expecting to name Hughton/Cook or similar but Holden applied and they offered him an interview out of respect for the work he's done. They'll know Dean a lot better than any of us will and whether he was a plausible candidate or not even worth the time to interview and that's how a lot of companies go about recruitment (admittedly football is different)

Perhaps DH interviewed or presented himself in a way that actually surprised the board? Maybe they hadn't expected such a strong interview from him and hence they had to reconsider their thinking? If he's come to the interview with a detailed analysis of what went right, what went wrong, areas of the team that need improving and how he sees that happening, a list of potential staff to work with him (lets make no mistake, those appointments arent random - some serious thinking has gone into that from someone!) then maybe he's earned this shot?

Let's consider that DH has been here long enough to know the players very well. He will have watched the way LJ handled players, and perhaps seen the fall outs and the mishandling. Now we all know LJ has more than a little ego to him and based on the David Noble podcast his dad wasn't a brilliant man-manager (comments about treating everyone the same and some didnt react well to that) and LJ's own comments lead me to believe he comes from a bit of the old-school management style himself.

Perhaps DH is thinking actually, we have a really talented bunch of lads who do actually look bloody good in training but then when it comes to match day are frozen in fear of doing wrong, or just pure confusion at what LJ has been asking of them? If he has that rapport with the more isolated players e.g. KP, and knows how to talk to them and get the best out of them then that could go a long way.

I'm actually a little more optimistic about this than I was a week or so ago. I also liked that he acknowledged how difficult his position is and the lack of support - though make no mistake any anger should be directed at the board and NOT at DH. DH should be supported by the fans, its in all of our interests for him to do well.

Bring on the season IMO, and if we can hit the ground running with some good results before the fans hopefully start returning late in the year he might have earned a bit of the supporters trust back

Fair comment, he's been chosen, let's get behind him.

Who says that either Cook or Hughton wanted the job anyway?

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23 minutes ago, Redpool said:

Came out a while ago when the job came available. Which adds insult to injury 

Intriguing. Clearly something didn't fit, possibly his salary and backroom staff expectations - there's been a lot of (successful) work to build our recruitment and youth setup, for example, can't see the Board wanting that undone.

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