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Dean Holden (Merged)


If we appoint Holden I will...   

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Just now, Monkeh said:

the problem with this was they were instructed not to put a tackle in, they wrote instructed to sit back and wait for a mistake until the final 5 games of the season

Maybe true.

The key question then is, are any of them capable of making a tackle without breaking? Have serious doubts myself. Nagy in particular. 

 

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4 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Maybe true.

The key question then is, are any of them capable of making a tackle without breaking? Have serious doubts myself. Nagy in particular. 

 

nagy has the qualities to break up play if used correctly, he's proven that on the international stage,

He is a quality midfielder when utilised correcty

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21 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Palmer who's been promoted to the Prem, Massengo who has played champions league football and Nagy who is an internation footballer. Far worse options around...

Think that's gonna be one of the most important aspects in whether or not Holden can be successful here. Can he get the best out of the likes of Kalas, Nagy and Palmer. 

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33 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

We’ve got 9 weeks ish so hopefully should be okay, dean should have a clear idea of the type of player he’s after 

I thought the season started on September 12th?

Only five weeks if I’m not mistaken.

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59 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Agree with a lot you say Dave.

How many people on here expected us to beat Warnock's Boro? Everything pointed to a defeat didn't it? We had nothing to play for in most people's eyes, Warnock new in the job and Boro fighting for survival. I expected us to get beat. That is a good result and shouldn't be downplayed by being relegation candidates, they beat Millwall away the game before us (admittedly maybe not the same prospect as if they'd had a full ground)

I wouldn't say I was blown away by the performances in those games with DH, but they were a marked improvement and a bit more freedom was clearly offered to the players.

Personally my thoughts on this appointment have changed the more I've had time to think about it. I think it could be a really positive decision.

No-one seems to have considered that perhaps the reason for the delay is that the board did their interview process expecting to name Hughton/Cook or similar but Holden applied and they offered him an interview out of respect for the work he's done. They'll know Dean a lot better than any of us will and whether he was a plausible candidate or not even worth the time to interview and that's how a lot of companies go about recruitment (admittedly football is different)

Perhaps DH interviewed or presented himself in a way that actually surprised the board? Maybe they hadn't expected such a strong interview from him and hence they had to reconsider their thinking? If he's come to the interview with a detailed analysis of what went right, what went wrong, areas of the team that need improving and how he sees that happening, a list of potential staff to work with him (lets make no mistake, those appointments arent random - some serious thinking has gone into that from someone!) then maybe he's earned this shot?

Let's consider that DH has been here long enough to know the players very well. He will have watched the way LJ handled players, and perhaps seen the fall outs and the mishandling. Now we all know LJ has more than a little ego to him and based on the David Noble podcast his dad wasn't a brilliant man-manager (comments about treating everyone the same and some didnt react well to that) and LJ's own comments lead me to believe he comes from a bit of the old-school management style himself.

Perhaps DH is thinking actually, we have a really talented bunch of lads who do actually look bloody good in training but then when it comes to match day are frozen in fear of doing wrong, or just pure confusion at what LJ has been asking of them? If he has that rapport with the more isolated players e.g. KP, and knows how to talk to them and get the best out of them then that could go a long way.

I'm actually a little more optimistic about this than I was a week or so ago. I also liked that he acknowledged how difficult his position is and the lack of support - though make no mistake any anger should be directed at the board and NOT at DH. DH should be supported by the fans, its in all of our interests for him to do well.

Bring on the season IMO, and if we can hit the ground running with some good results before the fans hopefully start returning late in the year he might have earned a bit of the supporters trust back

Brilliant post!

Echoes many of my own views. Actually woke up buzzing for the new season this morning, really excited to see what Dean can do to take us forward!

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49 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Lee. Give up mate.

 

Your midfield ‘mix’ was the worst I’ve witnessed in watching football. Load of lightweight headless chickens, who couldn’t put a tackle in to save their lives, let alone manage to successfully deliver an accurate forward pass to a team mate. A won header and a goal, but a distant memory. 

Hopeless. Rip it up and start againi

I agree, it was but I don't think that was totally down to the players. Get a more physical presence in there and give KP some freedom and I think we'll see improvements

41 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

nagy has the qualities to break up play if used correctly, he's proven that on the international stage,

He is a quality midfielder when utilised correcty

He also proved it at the start of the season until it was coached out of him, Massengo didn't shirk from a tackle then either

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1 hour ago, samo II said:

Ah fair play.

Yeah last season it was voted to move the window back to in line with Europe ie end of August/start of September, so while not ideal to bring players in after the season has started nothing really about this season will be ideal. Would've thought recruitment guys would have been working on the assumption of Holden and his targets/type of player he wants/positions he would want to strengthen at the back end of the season anyway until something changed such as different man in charge.

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2 hours ago, AshtonGreat said:

Imagine having to rely on Palmer, Szmodics, Nagy and Massengo to get you promoted. 

3 of those players played a lot of minutes early in the season when over the first 22 games we spent 12 games in the top 6. 🤷🏻‍♂️

2 hours ago, RedRock said:

No worries. 

We've got CoD who’ll be in there with his battling play, brilliant distribution, heading ability, leadership qualities and regular goals/assists. He’s the dominant midfield general we’ve been looking for during the past 4 years.  

After all, why else did MA offer him a lucrative extension to his contract? 

We’ll be just fine.

Trust Mark, he’s our football man and with an army of analysts,  what could possibly go wrong. 

I think he might be one of the casualties of Holden’s era.  Picked as a starter post-covid in every game by LJ.  Bench for every game under Holden (6 min and 7 min sub only).  352, no wingers?  If we could get £2m, I’d be very happy.

2 hours ago, MarcusX said:

Palmer who's been promoted to the Prem, Massengo who has played champions league football and Nagy who is an internation footballer. Far worse options around...

Plus it’s gonna be a squad game next season....lots more Sat Tues Sat Tues, plus if we progress in cup comps too.

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9 hours ago, MarcusX said:

Agree with a lot you say Dave.

How many people on here expected us to beat Warnock's Boro? Everything pointed to a defeat didn't it? We had nothing to play for in most people's eyes, Warnock new in the job and Boro fighting for survival. I expected us to get beat. That is a good result and shouldn't be downplayed by being relegation candidates, they beat Millwall away the game before us (admittedly maybe not the same prospect as if they'd had a full ground)

I wouldn't say I was blown away by the performances in those games with DH, but they were a marked improvement and a bit more freedom was clearly offered to the players.

Personally my thoughts on this appointment have changed the more I've had time to think about it. I think it could be a really positive decision.

No-one seems to have considered that perhaps the reason for the delay is that the board did their interview process expecting to name Hughton/Cook or similar but Holden applied and they offered him an interview out of respect for the work he's done. They'll know Dean a lot better than any of us will and whether he was a plausible candidate or not even worth the time to interview and that's how a lot of companies go about recruitment (admittedly football is different)

Perhaps DH interviewed or presented himself in a way that actually surprised the board? Maybe they hadn't expected such a strong interview from him and hence they had to reconsider their thinking? If he's come to the interview with a detailed analysis of what went right, what went wrong, areas of the team that need improving and how he sees that happening, a list of potential staff to work with him (lets make no mistake, those appointments arent random - some serious thinking has gone into that from someone!) then maybe he's earned this shot?

Let's consider that DH has been here long enough to know the players very well. He will have watched the way LJ handled players, and perhaps seen the fall outs and the mishandling. Now we all know LJ has more than a little ego to him and based on the David Noble podcast his dad wasn't a brilliant man-manager (comments about treating everyone the same and some didnt react well to that) and LJ's own comments lead me to believe he comes from a bit of the old-school management style himself.

Perhaps DH is thinking actually, we have a really talented bunch of lads who do actually look bloody good in training but then when it comes to match day are frozen in fear of doing wrong, or just pure confusion at what LJ has been asking of them? If he has that rapport with the more isolated players e.g. KP, and knows how to talk to them and get the best out of them then that could go a long way.

I'm actually a little more optimistic about this than I was a week or so ago. I also liked that he acknowledged how difficult his position is and the lack of support - though make no mistake any anger should be directed at the board and NOT at DH. DH should be supported by the fans, its in all of our interests for him to do well.

Bring on the season IMO, and if we can hit the ground running with some good results before the fans hopefully start returning late in the year he might have earned a bit of the supporters trust back

Furthermore, DH will be fully aware of the requirements / restrictions / protocols the Board impose on the Head Coach, in order to ensure a sustainable approach. Others interviewed would not have such an understanding and I suspect for some candidates this would have been a deal breaker. 

As with everything only time will tell whether this is a disaster, a master stroke or something akin to treading water and buying time.  

Whatever else we might get DH certainly presents as a non-BS bloke, where you get a straight answer to a question and a considered response, which is at least one big breath of fresh air when compared to his predecessor. 

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On 11/08/2020 at 09:23, MarcusX said:

Agree with a lot you say Dave.

How many people on here expected us to beat Warnock's Boro? Everything pointed to a defeat didn't it? We had nothing to play for in most people's eyes, Warnock new in the job and Boro fighting for survival. I expected us to get beat. That is a good result and shouldn't be downplayed by being relegation candidates, they beat Millwall away the game before us (admittedly maybe not the same prospect as if they'd had a full ground)

I wouldn't say I was blown away by the performances in those games with DH, but they were a marked improvement and a bit more freedom was clearly offered to the players.

Personally my thoughts on this appointment have changed the more I've had time to think about it. I think it could be a really positive decision.

No-one seems to have considered that perhaps the reason for the delay is that the board did their interview process expecting to name Hughton/Cook or similar but Holden applied and they offered him an interview out of respect for the work he's done. They'll know Dean a lot better than any of us will and whether he was a plausible candidate or not even worth the time to interview and that's how a lot of companies go about recruitment (admittedly football is different)

Perhaps DH interviewed or presented himself in a way that actually surprised the board? Maybe they hadn't expected such a strong interview from him and hence they had to reconsider their thinking? If he's come to the interview with a detailed analysis of what went right, what went wrong, areas of the team that need improving and how he sees that happening, a list of potential staff to work with him (lets make no mistake, those appointments arent random - some serious thinking has gone into that from someone!) then maybe he's earned this shot?

Let's consider that DH has been here long enough to know the players very well. He will have watched the way LJ handled players, and perhaps seen the fall outs and the mishandling. Now we all know LJ has more than a little ego to him and based on the David Noble podcast his dad wasn't a brilliant man-manager (comments about treating everyone the same and some didnt react well to that) and LJ's own comments lead me to believe he comes from a bit of the old-school management style himself.

Perhaps DH is thinking actually, we have a really talented bunch of lads who do actually look bloody good in training but then when it comes to match day are frozen in fear of doing wrong, or just pure confusion at what LJ has been asking of them? If he has that rapport with the more isolated players e.g. KP, and knows how to talk to them and get the best out of them then that could go a long way.

I'm actually a little more optimistic about this than I was a week or so ago. I also liked that he acknowledged how difficult his position is and the lack of support - though make no mistake any anger should be directed at the board and NOT at DH. DH should be supported by the fans, its in all of our interests for him to do well.

Bring on the season IMO, and if we can hit the ground running with some good results before the fans hopefully start returning late in the year he might have earned a bit of the supporters trust back

Fair comment, he's been chosen, let's get behind him.

Who says that either Cook or Hughton wanted the job anyway?

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23 minutes ago, Redpool said:

Came out a while ago when the job came available. Which adds insult to injury 

Intriguing. Clearly something didn't fit, possibly his salary and backroom staff expectations - there's been a lot of (successful) work to build our recruitment and youth setup, for example, can't see the Board wanting that undone.

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25 minutes ago, Redpool said:

Came out a while ago when the job came available. Which adds insult to injury 

Not directly quoted by him, but a third party.  But the “fact” he had interviews suggests he was interested.

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8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Not directly quoted by him, but a third party.  But the “fact” he had interviews suggests he was interested.

True, but also another rumour that he had interviewed badly? The only thing I can imagine is him turning up with a shopping list of players or having zero knowledge of squad outside Nahki Wells? Clearly something didn't go well from the point that he declared an interest and interview stages.

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5 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

True, but also another rumour that he had interviewed badly? The only thing I can imagine is him turning up with a shopping list of players or having zero knowledge of squad outside Nahki Wells? Clearly something didn't go well from the point that he declared an interest and interview stages.

That’s what I heard too....wouldn’t be surprised if we hear more on this in time.  More to do with transfer control than staff.

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8 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

True, but also another rumour that he had interviewed badly? The only thing I can imagine is him turning up with a shopping list of players or having zero knowledge of squad outside Nahki Wells? Clearly something didn't go well from the point that he declared an interest and interview stages.

Gregor said that in one of his reports.

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3 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Bit of a fallacy surely to say Holden interviewed better than Hughton, especially related to knowledge of the players, club, processes etc. I mean obviously Holden would know more.

 

 

Think it would most likely be to do with how he will use younger players and his view of the academy,

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14 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Bit of a fallacy surely to say Holden interviewed better than Hughton, especially related to knowledge of the players, club, processes etc. I mean obviously Holden would know more.

 

 

Depends what he was like on 'the Sol Campbell scale of interviewing', I say this because according to their chairman he turned up for an interview at Oxford not even knowing any of their players and having not watched a single game of their so couldn't answer questions on who he'd want to keep/replace and how he'd want them to line up etc.

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1 minute ago, cidercity1987 said:

Bit of a fallacy surely to say Holden interviewed better than Hughton, especially related to knowledge of the players, club, processes etc. I mean obviously Holden would know more.

 

 

The interview would surely have been concentrated on how the candidate will take the club forward to meet whatever objectives have been set ?

That would cover a whole host of things but I doubt much emphasis would have been on what they know about the club and players - other than it is in the championship and operates within FFP etc.

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13 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

Depends what he was like on 'the Sol Campbell scale of interviewing', I say this because according to their chairman he turned up for an interview at Oxford not even knowing any of their players and having not watched a single game of their so couldn't answer questions on who he'd want to keep/replace and how he'd want them to line up etc.

I'd say they were asking the wrong questions in that case.

May as well have got one of the players in.

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27 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Bit of a fallacy surely to say Holden interviewed better than Hughton, especially related to knowledge of the players, club, processes etc. I mean obviously Holden would know more.

 

 

It does depend on whether, for example  Hughton swanned up thinking it was going to be a breeze

Cant imagine Hughton doing that , but its history now

 

The quote by MA early after Johnsons departure is significant IMO when he stated the Lansdowns knew what sort of candidate they were looking for

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42 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

True, but also another rumour that he had interviewed badly? The only thing I can imagine is him turning up with a shopping list of players or having zero knowledge of squad outside Nahki Wells? Clearly something didn't go well from the point that he declared an interest and interview stages.

If this is True and Deano got the job because he smashed the interview, I really hope this doesn't come back to haunt us!

I've seen people in my workplace who you know are good enough for a position but are rubbish at interviews. You then get someone else get the job who really shouldn't have got it, but can talk the talk.

I've always said it's the bit after the interview which is the important bit, i.e someone who can do the job. We've had contractors give the BS on phone interviews, come in, are shocking, and have been bombed out after a week.

CH had the good track record. Only time will tell if we've ballsed up!

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