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If we appoint Holden I will...   

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5 minutes ago, GTFABM said:

Hasn’t Scott Parker just got promoted with Fulham in his 1st full season as manager? Experience/cheap option is not always a bad thing. 

Remember Tinnion, Millen... IF, as now sadly seems likely, Holden is given the job it is to me a stupefying decision after a month of deliberation. 

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Just now, Phileas Fogg said:

It’s a silly straw man argument. No one is saying it’s impossible, just far more likely with a proven operator like Hughton.

Also, Fulham have a much stronger squad with whom you’d expect promotion.

Of course it’s far more likely but it can be done. I understand the frustration but To be dead against a possible new manager before any football is played is hard to get

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Just now, ChubStixx said:

The fact that we haven't heard anything about Korey Smith gives me hope that a new man is incoming, who'll then have that decision to make.

I think it's fairly universally accepted that a new man is incoming - what year that may be though is anyone's guess!

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2 minutes ago, old_eastender said:

Remember Tinnion, Millen... IF, as now sadly seems likely, Holden is given the job it is to me a stupefying decision after a month of deliberation. 

Yeah i do but that does not mean holden will be the same? 

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41 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

I'm back. 10k around the docks. What have I missed :city:

Quite a lot buddy. Hughton was appointed on a 4 year deal, but then we all had a change of heart and picketed Ashton Gate for Holden to be brought back into the reckoning. The board acquiesced and have stated it will take a non-specific amount of time to review the situation.

7 minutes ago, GTFABM said:

Hasn’t Scott Parker just got promoted with Fulham in his 1st full season as manager? Experience/cheap option is not always a bad thing. 

No offence my fellow fan, but these statements really bug me. 

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33 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

8 more years than me.

My first game was 1-0 v Liverpool in 78.  Second game was 5-0 v Cov on Boxing Day. It peaked rather quickly for me 😂

The 70's was our golden decade, at least you caught the last couple of years!

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Just now, mozo said:

Quite a lot buddy. Hughton was appointed on a 4 year deal, but then we all had a change of heart and picketed Ashton Gate for Holden to be brought back into the reckoning. The board acquiesced and have stated it will take a non-specific amount of time to review the situation.

No offence my fellow fan, but these statements really bug me. 

No offence taken because i couldn’t care less. Does it bug you because it’s true and it goes against the arguments being made and how outraged people are?

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1 minute ago, GTFABM said:

Of course it’s far more likely but it can be done. I understand the frustration but To be dead against a possible new manager before any football is played is hard to get

These statements really bug me too @mozo

How is it hard to get why Chris Hughton would be a preferable appointment to Dean Holden for a club with the stated aim of promotion from one of the most competitive leagues in the world?

 

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2 minutes ago, GTFABM said:

Of course it’s far more likely but it can be done. I understand the frustration but To be dead against a possible new manager before any football is played is hard to get

Not when we’ve been linked with high profile and proven names, you can totally understand why fans are furious.

We also have an appalling track record with internal appointments so it’s no wonder people are dubious.

I think it would be a terrible choice to appoint Holden, partly for the anger from the fans.

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Just now, Red Exile said:

These statements really bug me too @mozo

How is it hard to get why Chris Hughton would be a preferable appointment to Dean Holden for a club with the stated aim of promotion from one of the most competitive leagues in the world?

 

Yes it’s preferable of course it is.... but for whatever reason that looks unlikely. People act on here that the ONLY reason is because it’s a cheap option. I would love to know how people know this as fact and won’t hear any other possibility

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12 minutes ago, GTFABM said:

Hasn’t Scott Parker just got promoted with Fulham in his 1st full season as manager? Experience/cheap option is not always a bad thing. 

After having arguably the best squad in the league on crazy wages.

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1 minute ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

After having arguably the best squad in the league on crazy wages.

So Chris Hughton got newcastle and brighton promoted with bang average players???? He did not. So he only did the exact same thing Parker has done at Fulham in his 1st job

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4 minutes ago, GTFABM said:

Yes it’s preferable of course it is.... but for whatever reason that looks unlikely. People act on here that the ONLY reason is because it’s a cheap option. I would love to know how people know this as fact and won’t hear any other possibility

Of course people don't know that Holden will be a rubbish appointment. It's impossible to know either way. But what is becoming tedious is reading posts along the lines of Parker/Frank/x/y/z was once an assistant manger and that worked out...so Dean Holden will...without the poster having taken the time to even google their track records, compare them to Dean Holden's and realise where the differences lie.

The reasons folk have for feeling Holden would be a poor choice are many and varied, and considered in most cases, and all on this thread for anyone who cares to read them.

Edited by Red Exile
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8 minutes ago, GTFABM said:

Thats not what people are saying though. The whole point is no experience in a manager = failure

What people are saying is:

Even with a 'cheap option' we could and should do better than Holden.

Even with a Manager / Coach with little or no experience would be better than Holden.

Even with or without a 5 week search for a LJ's replacement. We could and should do better than Holden.

 

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1 minute ago, GTFABM said:

No offence taken because i couldn’t care less. Does it bug you because it’s true and it goes against the arguments being made and how outraged people are?

Good cos I seriously don't mean to be argumentative. 

Let's put it this way:

⬇️

When throwing people into a job at a high level, people with experience and a proven track record succeed more often than people with limited experience and no track record.

⬆️

Do you disagree with that statement?

Does experience and knowledge give you a better chance of success?

 

Just pointing out exceptions to the rule doesn't stop the rule being the most rational approach. 

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1 minute ago, supercidered said:

What people are saying is:

Even with a 'cheap option' we could and should do better than Holden.

Even with a Manager / Coach with little or no experience would be better than Holden.

Even with or without a 5 week search for a LJ's replacement. We could and should do better than Holden.

 

I am going to sound really childish now but.... can i have the league standings for next season because you already know what happens. 

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2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Not when we’ve been linked with high profile and proven names, you can totally understand why fans are furious.

We also have an appalling track record with internal appointments so it’s no wonder people are dubious.

I think it would be a terrible choice to appoint Holden, partly for the anger from the fans.

As someone else pointed out Joe Jordan was an internal appointment and got us promoted at the first attempt.

On the flip side we've appointed 'proven' managers like Coppell, So'D, Denys Smith who've been disasters. You don't have any idea what you've got until at least ten games have been played, it's unfair to write anyone off before they've even got the job.

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Just now, mozo said:

Good cos I seriously don't mean to be argumentative. 

Let's put it this way:

⬇️

When throwing people into a job at a high level, people with experience and a proven track record succeed more often than people with limited experience and no track record.

⬆️

Do you disagree with that statement?

Does experience and knowledge give you a better chance of success?

 

Just pointing out exceptions to the rule doesn't stop the rule being the most rational approach. 

Agree. But holden has done all the required coaching badges etc same as any manager. I don’t want to come across as a happy clapper or whatever people on here call them, but i refuse to write off a manager purely because he isn’t who i would want as 1st choice (for the record i wanted cook)

1 minute ago, ashton_fan said:

As someone else pointed out Joe Jordan was an internal appointment and got us promoted at the first attempt.

On the flip side we've appointed 'proven' managers like Coppell, So'D, Denys Smith who've been disasters. You don't have any idea what you've got until at least ten games have been played, it's unfair to write anyone off before they've even got the job.

Said in a much better way than i could. Agree 100%

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Just now, GTFABM said:

Agree. But holden has done all the required coaching badges etc same as any manager. I don’t want to come across as a happy clapper or whatever people on here call them, but i refuse to write off a manager purely because he isn’t who i would want as 1st choice (for the record i wanted cook)

No and you're absolutely right that nobody should write him off. He might be the next Pep (although nothing so far suggests he has any special quality).

But at the same time, the outrage is justified of people want the club to give us the best chance of success. 

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Just now, ashton_fan said:

As someone else pointed out Joe Jordan was an internal appointment and got us promoted at the first attempt.

On the flip side we've appointed 'proven' managers like Coppell, So'D, Denys Smith who've been disasters. You don't have any idea what you've got until at least ten games have been played, it's unfair to write anyone off before they've even got the job.

...now we have Joe Jordan (again) - google Joe Jordan's track record prior to becoming player manager at City (in a different era) and compare that to Dean Holden - you'll see the difference between a footballing giant and a journeyman.

Steve Lansdown has a poor record of left-field managerial choices. Its unsurprising if his judgement is doubted.

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21 minutes ago, GTFABM said:

Hasn’t Scott Parker just got promoted with Fulham in his 1st full season as manager? Experience/cheap option is not always a bad thing. 

Scott Parker had more experience as a footballer and McDonalds adverts. 

He also trained to be a coach in Tottenhams set up under Poch, so I would say he had a good enough grounding to be a manager. 

Also as been said his team was full of talent that should of walked this league 

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1 minute ago, supercidered said:

Good grief !

 

I agree it’s rediculous but everyone is already saying how this is 100% a failure when it’s simply not. I would say the majority did not want cotterill on reputation? Is that fair? And everyone was buzzing with coppell? Just 2 reasons fans have no clue and should have zero say in who the club appoint

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2 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

...now we have Joe Jordan (again) - google Joe Jordan's track record prior to becoming player manager at City (in a different era) and compare that to Dean Holden - you'll see the difference between a footballing giant and a journeyman.

Steve Lansdown has a poor record of left-field managerial choices. Its unsurprising if his judgement is doubted.

Ok so by that theory alan shearer should Of been top tier as a manager? And aresene wenger should have been piss poor? It’s not that simple

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3 minutes ago, GTFABM said:

I agree it’s rediculous but everyone is already saying how this is 100% a failure when it’s simply not. I would say the majority did not want cotterill on reputation? Is that fair? And everyone was buzzing with coppell? Just 2 reasons fans have no clue and should have zero say in who the club appoint

I refer my honourable friend to the post from 11 minutes ago.

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Just now, GTFABM said:

So Chris Hughton got newcastle and brighton promoted with bang average players???? He did not. So he only did the exact same thing Parker has done at Fulham in his 1st job

I'd say it was probably an easier job than Parker's.

Hughton had a number of prem level players playing for him. In probably a less competitive league overall than this season.

Forest ended up 3rd and they had the likes of Paul Anderson and Adebola playing regularly. Even 2nd placed WBA looked far off what Newcastle had in their squad on paper.

Parker this season had 3 superb sides competing with his side for top 2.

Though Parker probably should have got more points with that Fulham side, he got the job done.

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10 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

As someone else pointed out Joe Jordan was an internal appointment and got us promoted at the first attempt.

On the flip side we've appointed 'proven' managers like Coppell, So'D, Denys Smith who've been disasters. You don't have any idea what you've got until at least ten games have been played, it's unfair to write anyone off before they've even got the job.

I should’ve specified, internal appointments under the current board. I’m not ‘writing Holden off’ - my gut feeling is it’s a bad appointment but I hope he proves me wrong. He might well do.

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