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Dean Holden (Merged)


If we appoint Holden I will...   

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1 minute ago, Finley_Smith10 said:

People are forgetting Lansdown is a multi Billionaire and his ambition is to get us to the premier league as soon as possible...always excuses and the cheap option...the city way 

Really? The cheap option would be to not lose over 100 million through football. Do you understand how COVID has not only completely depleted our income in a commercial sense, but has also drastically impacted our model of buying and selling because it has caused the transfer market to shrink. In normal times we run at an operating loss of ~£18 million, i think. This will only be exacerbated by reduced revenue from loss of match day income, thus loss of sponsorship income. 

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I’m still waiting to see who it is before getting too pissed off about all this. However, I work in recruitment and unless you are finding people for a huge corporate machine or a ludicrously process driven public sector organisation no smooth running recruitment process takes this long.

It seems to me that we’ve gone about this in a very haphazard way from the start. We don’t appear to have had a preferred shortlist of candidates or any kind of contingency plan for when LJ left the club. This seems to be borne out by the names we have been linked with... some experienced and proven (Hughton), some promising lower league (Lowe, Robins), and some decent championship managers (Cook). Either the press are completely wrong, or we have no real idea of the ‘type’ we’re really after as they’re all so totally different.

I think there is a real danger we could end up with Holden now. The reasons that could happen is if the people we’ve spoken to have walked away because they’re not happy with the budget, use of the academy or the way that Ashton and Lansdown want to do things with their ‘active interest’ in day to day operations. Holden knows how we operate and would most likely live with it, as this is the best and most well rewarded position he’ll ever be offered.

I sincerely hope I’m wrong in that, and that the board pull a rabbit from the hat in the next few days. It will be hilarious listening to Ashton pontificating about how Holden was first choice all along if it is him though....

And, fwiw, I’d rather have kept LJ than replace him with someone even more unproven. 

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56 minutes ago, Finley_Smith10 said:

If Holden gets the job then SL and JL can wave goodbye to a lot of season tickets aswell as a angry fan base

Waiting a month just to appoint the person who we finished the season with would be an absolute shambles
 

If bearing Hull and M’boro is enough to get you a job infront of other managers available then **** me I may aswell apply 

We could sign Pochettino but I’m pretty sure no one else would buy a season ticket this season.

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1 minute ago, James54De said:

Really? The cheap option would be to not lose over 100 million through football. Do you understand how COVID has not only completely depleted our income in a commercial sense, but has also drastically impacted our model of buying and selling because it has caused the transfer market to shrink. In normal times we run at an operating loss of ~£18 million, i think. This will only be exacerbated by reduced revenue from loss of match day income, thus loss of sponsorship income. 

Why would Ashton and Lansdown constantly go on about finding someone willing to take us to the next step and then maybe appointing Holden which would be the cheapest option, playing us all 

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2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Shame that people insult each other on here and that stops people having the confidence to post things.

I don't think Holden for 12 months to see how he does is the worst idea. Especially at the moment.

I'm thinking whoever we get in now won't have long to know all the players. Their strengths and weaknesses.

If Holden can get us playing a bit more like Boro away more often then I think we will all be happy to see that kind of performance.

Ideally id want someone else in. But I'm not against Holden being given a go at all to be honest.

And ok this should not matter but if Holden is a cheap option then does that allow us a bit more money to spend on players in this window? 

Surely any proven manager will want money we don't have. I really don't think this is a simple job to get the right man.

Holden has done nothing to justify getting this job. We may as well have kept Johnson if we were going to waste 5 weeks and then appoint him after all of this. We have  wasted a vital 5 weeks with the transfer market open , players wanting to leave, preseason starting soon and next season starting in a month. If the club have endured this to appoint a manager with a proven track record and able to bring a fresh approach and direction then it has been worth it. But all this to promote the assistant to the managers job which fails so many times would be a terrible terrible decision by SL and the rest of them.

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11 minutes ago, Finley_Smith10 said:

No chance, Lansdown is a Billionaire and if he’s so committed to getting us to the premier league as that’s all him and Ashton go on about then surely this opportunity is the best chance to get someone in who actually knows how to get out of this league instead of going for a person who was assistant to some of the worst football I’ve seen in recent years down City

starting to think you’re either SL, JL, Ashton or Holden by the way you’re going 

Nope, I’m just a realist, not some fantasist demanding somebody else spends a lot of his money on a huge gamble, in very uncertain economic times, with no end in sight.

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Just now, Finley_Smith10 said:

Why would Ashton and Lansdown constantly go on about finding someone willing to take us to the next step and then maybe appointing Holden which would be the cheapest option, playing us all 

Just wait and see what happens. Finances only allow what they allow. We are only allowed to lose so much money, and while it might not be a problem this year, a huge loss next season could cause massive (12 point deductions) problems 2/3 years down the line. 

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2 minutes ago, James54De said:

Just wait and see what happens. Finances only allow what they allow. We are only allowed to lose so much money, and while it might not be a problem this year, a huge loss next season could cause massive (12 point deductions) problems 2/3 years down the line. 

.......For every club in the league? 

 

It’s not just us with these problems. Every club is in the same boat so this argument really doesn’t make any sense to me.

 

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Honestly can’t see it being Holden.

How could they possibly spin it.

The only thing they could say which would get even the smallest amount of traction is some sort of financial climate reference, and even then everyone would know that was nonsense as they were talking up promotion whilst being linked with Gerrard and Hughton.

Both tonight and in the past week Holden has become more of a feature. I suspect it’s to put Cook appointment in a better light, moving him away from perception of cheap option vs Hughton and toward relief vs Holden.

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19 minutes ago, James54De said:

Our income will be through the floor next season. At this moment in time we are probably looking at a loss of £20 million + 

The same situation for every other clu  in the division.

Arguably Birmingham and Middlesbrough are in a worse state than us, and haven't gone down our "proposed" line.

Eventually a year from now, Covid will be over; and income streams will be back on board. If we are in decline then, or even in league 1. Then it's gping to cost a hell of a lot more money to turn the ship around.

We have an opportunity to give an experienced manager a stable club to build on, to "take to the next level". Rather than a team in relegation trouble or already gone; and we've been found wanting i'm afraid 

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Just now, S_C said:

Honestly can’t see it being Holden.

How could they possibly spin it.

The only thing they could say which would get even the smallest amount of traction is some sort of financial climate reference, and even then everyone would know that was nonsense as they were talking up promotion whilst being linked with Gerrard and Hughton.

Both tonight and in the past week Holden has become more of a feature. I suspect it’s to put Cook appointment in a better light, moving him away from perception of cheap option vs Hughton and toward relief vs Holden.

No chance they would say this even if it were true, its basically saying "we've gone for the cheapest possible option" which would not be well received by supporters even if it made sense from a financial perspective. If DH gets the job the words used will be along the lines of "well respected coach", "has the respect of the players", continuity of our philosophy" etc

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It’s well documented that premier league football is our ambition and play offs was a must this season. Out of interest, does that go out of the window if they promote Holden to head coach, or do they expect him to deliver top 6 football next season, in his first senior role in management!? 

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1 hour ago, Dr Balls said:

If you don’t try, then you will never achieve.

Financially this league is a basket case. To make money and cover your costs you have to get to the Premier League.

The only other option that makes financial sense is to be Rotherham and bounce between the Championship and League 1, but spend next to nothing when you get promoted, get relegated, keep your manager, get promoted again and hope that eventually you establish yourself at this level, but not bother about going for the Premier League. Norwich have essentially done the same this year in the Premier League, except that they get the added bonus of some parachute payments to help them for next season back in the Championship.

Indeed. Absolutely. 

This League is an enjoyable League, a fun League....but financially a disasterclass! 

PL can be self-sustaining. So too could League One or upper League One, lower Championship bouncing between the two. Some Cup runs, some good academy sales. We'd be one of the best supported at that level, we absolutely could achieve breakeven. Not much fun though!

Either of these would achieve sustainability IMO. Beyond that growing into a Norwich (still quite capable of making a loss) or even more so a Burnley but these are outliers. That aside...

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3 minutes ago, ncnsbcfc said:

The same situation for every other clu  in the division.

Arguably Birmingham and Middlesbrough are in a worse state than us, and haven't gone down our "proposed" line.

Eventually a year from now, Covid will be over; and income streams will be back on board. If we are in decline then, or even in league 1. Then it's gping to cost a hell of a lot more money to turn the ship around.

We have an opportunity to give an experienced manager a stable club to build on, to "take to the next level". Rather than a team in relegation trouble or already gone; and we've been found wanting i'm afraid 

It’s not every club. We were structured in a way that allowed to too perfectly operate in the football economy, making huge money on transfers and relying on that to stay alive. Obviously you can’t predict a pandemic, but that economy is now drastically different, which means we now have to alter how we operate. 
It’ll take years for anything, in an economic sense, to be back to how it was pre-covid. 

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25 minutes ago, Finley_Smith10 said:

People are forgetting Lansdown is a multi Billionaire and his ambition is to get us to the premier league as soon as possible...always excuses and the cheap option...the city way 

What about FFP?

Sheffield Wednesday just fell foul of it and they (by which I mean the EFL) are getting better at enforcement and analysis now. I congratulate them on winning their case and Sheffield Wednesday getting docked 12 points.

Not quick or rigorous enough for my liking yet but...

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Just now, Dolman_Stand said:

No chance they would say this even if it were true, its basically saying "we've gone for the cheapest possible option" which would not be well received by supporters even if it made sense from a financial perspective. If DH gets the job the words used will be along the lines of "well respected coach", "has the respect of the players", continuity of our philosophy" etc

For sure, I’m not saying they would say that, I’m saying I think that’s the only remotely plausible thing they could say.

Im sure they would say everything you’ve said, but everyone would see it for what it is, a disastrous recruitment process in which we’ve settled for an internal candidate because we couldn’t agree terms with the various external ones.

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59 minutes ago, Maltshoveller said:

Who ever we get there will be lots of very pissed off fans Thats Bristol City fans

If SL got Klopp as our new manager there would be loads on here moaning that he didnt get PEP

What ever SL does some will only moan 

No one would moan at Klopp!!

Edited by Cardy
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24 minutes ago, Redrascal2 said:

Holden has done nothing to justify getting this job. We may as well have kept Johnson if we were going to waste 5 weeks and then appoint him after all of this. We have  wasted a vital 5 weeks with the transfer market open , players wanting to leave, preseason starting soon and next season starting in a month. If the club have endured this to appoint a manager with a proven track record and able to bring a fresh approach and direction then it has been worth it. But all this to promote the assistant to the managers job which fails so many times would be a terrible terrible decision by SL and the rest of them.

It probably isn't that easy though.

We might not be able to offer what those managers want.

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32 minutes ago, James54De said:

Our income will be through the floor next season. At this moment in time we are probably looking at a loss of £20 million + 

And can you explain what makes us different from any other vlub in the country?  

We’re supposed to be comfortably within ffp, while there are plenty who will be in far more trouble than us, so I would be interested to know why it has to be us that hauls up the white flag?

With the current covid situation, the EFL will have no other option than to temporarily relax the ffp rules anyway.  

We are only talking about employing a new head coach after all, not spending tens of £millions on players or building a new stadium.

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7 minutes ago, TedsHeadIs Red said:

We would be the laughing stock of football if after a 5 week recruitment process we appoint our current manager as our new manager.

I doubt whether anyone else in football gives a stuff about us right now. L1 and below not viable with no fans and rest of Championship cutting costs and hoping. 

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  • Maesknoll Red changed the title to If we appoint Holden (Merged Threads)
  • TomF changed the title to Dean Holden (Merged)

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