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Dean Holden (Merged)


If we appoint Holden I will...   

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2 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

And can you explain what makes us different from any other vlub in the country?  

We’re supposed to be comfortably within ffp, while there are plenty who will be in far more trouble than us, so I would be interested to know why it has to be us that hauls up the white flag?

With the current covid situation, the EFL will have no other option than to temporarily relax the ffp rules anyway.  

We are only talking about employing a new head coach after all, not spending tens of £millions on players or building a new stadium.

Well

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1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

So how the **** did Birmingham appoint Karanka last week?

Surely based on this logic their U23 coach should have got the gig?

Been downsizing, lovely little influx from Bellingham sale and some  Spanish striker- very timely!

Course it depends how there deals were structured but there's a bit of headroom possibly.

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1 hour ago, Chappers said:

Won’t happen, look at the news, the whole of the EFL is totally screwed, if we end up with most of our existing squad and not in receivership we’ll be ahead of a number of Championship Clubs. 

At the rate it’s going the top 6 might be the clubs that avoid  12 point deduction.

Perhaps SL has the inside track on this and realises he doesn't need to pay loads for an experienced manager to secure promotion next season !

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It's been proven before with Tins and Keef that it just doesn't work.

The profile of the club is at its highest for sometime. Appointing anything other than a "Pat Lam" type coach will be detrimental and will ultimately affect ticket sales let alone performances on the pitch. Money ultimately talks. This will have a damaging affect on progress. If the club want to realise that Premier League ambition then they have to keep building on and building on both on the field and off it.

If it's not CH (& I hope it is as it will show ambition) then I wouldn't be surprised if its a foreign coach that's appointed. That wouldn't affect the board still dealing with player recruitment and contracts.

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14 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

And can you explain what makes us different from any other vlub in the country?  

We’re supposed to be comfortably within ffp, while there are plenty who will be in far more trouble than us, so I would be interested to know why it has to be us that hauls up the white flag?

With the current covid situation, the EFL will have no other option than to temporarily relax the ffp rules anyway.  

We are only talking about employing a new head coach after all, not spending tens of £millions on players or building a new stadium.

Your post has some good points but consider:

LJ- Will be due some kind of payoff. Cost against FFP (and rightly so).

Coaching staff- If we lay any off, payoff and FFP cost.

New manager- Wages and possible compensation to old club. FFP.

Coaching staff- Wages and if hired from elsewhere, possible compensation. Yes you've guessed it!

Should be amended but clubs will be voting on it, we'll see what changes are thrown up.

Bear in mind a minimum 16/24 Championship clubs must agree for a change to occur, albeit it used to be 18/24!

Also consider the Championship clubs are set to vote THIS week on a salary cap to replace FFP. Maybe we are waiting on that to some extent.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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3 minutes ago, Swede said:

It's been proven before with Tins and Keef that it just doesn't work.

The profile of the club is at its highest for sometime. Appointing anything other than a "Pat Lam" type coach will be detrimental and will ultimately affect ticket sales let alone performances on the pitch. Money ultimately talks. This will have a damaging affect on progress. If the club want to realise that Premier League ambition then they have to keep building on and building on both on the field and off it.

If it's not CH (& I hope it is as it will show ambition) then I wouldn't be surprised if its a foreign coach that's appointed. That wouldn't affect the board still dealing with player recruitment and contracts.

Joe Jordan? Both managers in the Championship play off final were internal appointments.

Edited by Chappers
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5 hours ago, Bcfcbackwell said:

I have a confession – I’ve been a voyeur on this Forum, reading 

the comments on here and scared of making any comments myself 

due to the habit of members insulting each other & I certainly don’t 

want to to offend anyone.

Why Dean? My heart wants Chris Hughton but my head say’s Dean.

I believe LJ should have gone back in February, the football being 

absolutely dire & the first time in nearly 50 years of supporting the City 

I found myself walking away from the Gate 20 mins before the final whistle.

 

However, we are where we are.

 

Under normal circumstances, Yes Chris Hughton would be ideal but these are no normal circumstances.

 

Due to COVID, the club are letting 40 staff go, a third of the total workforce.

Add to that the possibility of no FANS being allowed in the ground for say,

the complete 20-21 Season, then a lot of clubs are going to be under extreme 

Financial pressure.  

 

It would be insensitive of the Club, I believe to award a multi-million £ contract 

to a new head Coach. I guess they realise that.

 

Add to the fact Dean had the team playing in a much more attacking way during the last few games & was we all agree I think, a much more enjoyable watch, then yes under the current climate he deserves a crack of the whip.

 

The ‘Cheap Option’?  Maybe yes and it carries risk but so would the appointment of Chris Hughton as any financial advisor would tell you when buying shares, past performance is not necessarily indicative of future performance.

Why do you keep hitting enter in the middle of a sentence though?

... and made your font larger than it needs to be.

Edited by TBW
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1 hour ago, Ronnie Sinclair said:

would prefer Amanda Holden to be honest

 

1 hour ago, Dman_Red said:

I think (hope) that DH odds have tumbled because lots of city fans are lumping on just in case he is  appointed and they have a consolation prize!

I've put some money on Hughton and Cook to try and bring their odds down to help people stop freaking out 😂

I've splashed out on Amanda Holden

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just a dream though :shocking:

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Is this post a joke?

It'd be insensitive to employ the best person for the job and we should just "give him a shot" because COVID has made things difficult?

No.

Yes it's unfortunate people lost their jobs but they're primarily office-based people. Not necessarily effecting the results directly.

Should we not sign any players either? That's new staff too after all.

As much as new members being around is great, this is an awful start.

... and you never leave a game early no matter what.

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1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Your post has some good points but consider:

LJ- Will be due some kind of payoff. Cost against FFP (and rightly so).

Coaching staff- If we lay any off, payoff and FFP cost.

New manager- Wages and possible compensation to club. FFP.

Coaching staff- Wages and possible compensation. Yes you've guessed it!

Should be amended but clubs will be voting on it, we'll see what changes are thrown up.

Bear in mind a minimum 16/24 Championship clubs must agree for a change to occur, albeit it used to be 18/24!

You also counter with some good points Mr P,  but if we actually do go for DH in the end, why the hell did they even bother to sack LJ, and not just hold fire until the financial situation had improved.  

Potentially we will now have incurred all those costs of paying compo to LJ, just to swop him for DH and we’ll now also need to employ a new assistant HC too.

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I can just imagine the club statement....." After conducting a series of interviews, we came to realise that the solution was already here at the club....blah. bollox, blah, blah. etc.  Well,  those who fail to heed history, are doomed to repeat it.  I give it 6 months...........Lacks ambition, and just leaves me sad and deeply unimpressed.  Though will save me quite a few quid  🙃

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I disagree that it has to be Holden. I mean why spend the time and expense of doing not just one round of interviews, but two if it has to be him? I think that the situation would've been made clear at the start, with regards to money, and the fact that Hughton, Cook, etc are all still interested bodes well.

 

I think that there are reasons to appoint Holden, but I don't think it means it has to be Holden.

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5 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

You also counter with some good points Mr P,  but if we actually do go for DH in the end, why the hell did they even bother to sack LJ, and not just hold fire until the financial situation had improved.  

Potentially we will now have incurred all those costs of paying compo to LJ, just to swop him for DH and we’ll now also need to employ a new assistant HC too.

Would make little or no sense IMO to sack LJ and appoint Holden. May as well perhaps have kept LJ though I believe he'd run his race so I'm not especially sold on that.

We will have added some costs certainly. I don't think we should appoint Holden as manager though, I hope we can do better with respect to Holden.

Hughton maybe the top choice but possibly for these straitened times, Cook. Good manager and likely wouldn't have to break the bank.

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1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

I am regularly accused of being too much of a rose tinter, but that’s bollocks.

If we appoint Hughton most will be happy.

If we appoint Cook or Neil many will be happy.

If we appoint Holden I doubt 5% of our fan base will happy.

If we appoint Holden, it doesn't throw logic out of the window. No, it strangles logic and tosses it over a cliff, then travels to the base where it smashes the remains into little pieces that it subsequently buries in a grave, twenty feet under.

No. Sense. At. All.

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11 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Your post has some good points but consider:

LJ- Will be due some kind of payoff. Cost against FFP (and rightly so).

Coaching staff- If we lay any off, payoff and FFP cost.

New manager- Wages and possible compensation to old club. FFP.

Coaching staff- Wages and if hired from elsewhere, possible compensation. Yes you've guessed it!

Should be amended but clubs will be voting on it, we'll see what changes are thrown up.

Bear in mind a minimum 16/24 Championship clubs must agree for a change to occur, albeit it used to be 18/24!

Also consider the Championship clubs are set to vote THIS week on a salary cap to replace FFP. Maybe we are waiting on that to some extent.

Do you think our wages will be less next season assuming Maenpaa, Korey and Williams are all gone. If Fam and Eliasson are sold. Wright, Taylor and loans gone.

Some of them like Williams and Afobe must have been very high earners.

Free up more wages if we sell Fam and Eliasson. Plus let's say 7-8 million for them.

And maybe a little bit of money for Herbie Kane transfer sell on clause who will be sold by Liverpool. Maybe even Loyd Kelly to Liverpool gets us a bit too?

Give O'Leary, Moore, Vyner, Walsh, Morrell and Szmodics a go next season in our first team squad.

We'd probably need to bring in a CB, CM and ST. Being greedy I'd like a RB too. 

Can probably be done sensibly with loans or frees.

Could this sort of thing be what Lansdown wants during this time I wonder.

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I've said it a million times before, and I'll say it again.

If the club want to go for Dean Holden, that's fair enough. It's Lansdown's money, after all, and he's entitled to do what he wants.

With that being said, both the fans, the new head coach, and the owner can shut the **** up about promotion being a possibility any time soon. This scenario is exactly what many of us have said would happen under LJ. The goal has always been organic growth, building towards becoming a promotion-ready team, but the problem with this approach is that it takes ONE setback for years of hard work to be undone.

If the approach is the same under Holden, does this mean that his remit is to improve on this seasons result? If so, it's no different to two years ago under LJ. We can plod along with a new coach, until the next setback puts us mid table or lower, and then we do the same dance.

When the fans are worried about FFP and the finances behind pushing for the top of the table, we're simply not capable of being promotion contenders. No disrespect to Holden or Cook, but they are cheap options, and neither is the sign of a club that is in the necessary shape to handle promotion to the Premier League.

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8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Would make little or no sense IMO to sack LJ and appoint Holden. May as well perhaps have kept LJ though I believe he'd run his race so I'm not especially sold on that.

We will have added some costs certainly. I don't think we should appoint Holden as manager though, I hope we can do better with respect to Holden.

Hughton maybe the top choice but possibly for these straitened times, Cook. Good manager and likely wouldn't have to break the bank.

Would certainly have no problem with Cook, but I really can’t understand people who are saying they would be satisfied with Dean Holden because of the financial times we’re in.  That to me shows a total lack of ambition for this club. 

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27 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Do you think our wages will be less next season assuming Maenpaa, Korey and Williams are all gone. If Fam and Eliasson are sold. Wright, Taylor and loans gone.

Some of them like Williams and Afobe must have been very high earners.

Free up more wages if we sell Fam and Eliasson. Plus let's say 7-8 million for them.

And maybe a little bit of money for Herbie Kane transfer sell on clause who will be sold by Liverpool. Maybe even Loyd Kelly to Liverpool gets us a bit too?

Give O'Leary, Moore, Vyner, Walsh, Morrell and Szmodics a go next season in our first team squad.

We'd probably need to bring in a CB, CM and ST. Being greedy I'd like a RB too. 

Can probably be done sensibly with loans or frees.

Could this sort of thing be what Lansdown wants during this time I wonder.

Eliasson has to be worth double that on his own

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33 minutes ago, EnderMB said:

I've said it a million times before, and I'll say it again.

If the club want to go for Dean Holden, that's fair enough. It's Lansdown's money, after all, and he's entitled to do what he wants.

With that being said, both the fans, the new head coach, and the owner can shut the **** up about promotion being a possibility any time soon. This scenario is exactly what many of us have said would happen under LJ. The goal has always been organic growth, building towards becoming a promotion-ready team, but the problem with this approach is that it takes ONE setback for years of hard work to be undone.

If the approach is the same under Holden, does this mean that his remit is to improve on this seasons result? If so, it's no different to two years ago under LJ. We can plod along with a new coach, until the next setback puts us mid table or lower, and then we do the same dance.

When the fans are worried about FFP and the finances behind pushing for the top of the table, we're simply not capable of being promotion contenders. No disrespect to Holden or Cook, but they are cheap options, and neither is the sign of a club that is in the necessary shape to handle promotion to the Premier League.

Good post.

 

Although I won't be unhappy with Cook now.

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The new coaching staff could be holding the announcement up, I believe City have interviewed Tommy Brown from Fulchester United but he won't come unless he can bring his coach Syd Preston, Mark Ashton is holding out on keeping Dean and Jamie, Tommy's counter offered by saying he could bring in Billy the Fish, Shakin' Stevens and Mick Hucknall on the cheap, this option has split the interview panel and creating the hold up. Or maybe I'm just losing the plot

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Hughton maybe the top choice but possibly for these straitened times, Cook. Good manager and likely wouldn't have to break the bank.

If you're referring to the size of transfer budget they would require, Cook actually spent very decent money at Wigan, especially last summer. It goes under the radar a bit. Still did a good job though imo.

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Why not Dean Holden?

Top coaching qualifications

Good man manager - the players like him and the old hair dryer rant and rave approach no longer works. 

In touch with modern coaching approaches.

Financially viable for the Club

Will play young talent and attacking football

seems more tactically astute than LJ

would bring entertaining football within the current limitations

Calm and consistent - the man even meditates!

may well have come across as the most impressive in interviews.

knows the Club inside out so City can hit the ground running

Yes, a quality foreign coach who might replicate the success of other foreign coaches and play decent football would have been appealing, but no doubt the pick of the bunch just aren’t practical. That would leave the Club taking a gamble on another potential Benny.

I think the big mistake here is to write off Holden because he is tainted by association with LJ.  I think they are very different types and DH showed he is very much his own man in the brief time in charge.

I hope he is appointed and given support  from the fan base and a fair chance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Gillies Downs Leeds said:

If it is Holden, it must be with an experienced older head in a role of some sort working alongside him. Perhaps Knighty was into something!!

been watching a couple of episodes of Ozark and come back to OTIB to this thread. 😱😱😱

Seriously though, I think Dean will have pitched a coaching staff that includes Ashley Williams, and possibly more involvement of Tinnion.  He used both in the 5 games he was in caretaker charge.

4 hours ago, Chappers said:

Might be what happens anyway. The game changer was probably the delay in trialling fans at sport, plus other noises about no further relaxation of restrictions. There must be doubts about next season even being completed, and I’m sure that SL has worked out that survival is now top priority. If it upsets a few fans, so be it, once normality returns, they will be back at the first whiff of success.

Certainly high up the priority list, and not gone risk that.

4 hours ago, Chappers said:

So tell me, what will be our income next season?

Here’s 18/19s:

B90019C4-9585-4E33-A8B1-DC708F764349.thumb.jpeg.2474fdad579797cfdff10cb4f36b1888.jpeg
 

if we don’t get fans back til new year and then 8k, then I think you’ll lose most (75-80%) of the match day revenue, half of your season card revenue in full refunds or part refunds as you won’t sell Robinstv at £500 like you woukd do a seat in the LS.  Commercial revenue will be down too.  Conservatively I reckon it could cost us £5m!

Yes, we will lose wages of certain expired contracts off the circa £30m wage bill.  And we will sell players too.

That will keep us stable....but where does the squad investment come from?  We have built up some contingency from previous years in terms of FFP....but MA says austerity for a reason.

Luckily (?) we are better placed financially than many other clubs.

3 hours ago, ncnsbcfc said:

Agreed Graham.

How can the board ask for patience as they undertake due diligence to "take the club to the next level"; and then appoint the deputy.

An appointment like DH would show every experienced manager out there, the level of our ambition as a club.

The next time, the position becomes available, i guarantee a large number will be put off by the current fiasco. 

This is the tough one.  I’m not in favour of Holden, but I can see it being much more than a red herring for Cook.  I think he is in with a chance if ducks don’t align elsewhere.  I’m obviously more open to it than most, but as you say, Ashton has sold us expectation.  He’s gonna have to be at his best to sell this one to 90% of fans.

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2 hours ago, BrizzleRed said:

Would certainly have no problem with Cook, but I really can’t understand people who are saying they would be satisfied with Dean Holden because of the financial times we’re in.  That to me shows a total lack of ambition for this club. 

Sometimes we have to temper ambition somewhat. Plenty of ambitious clubs have gone to the wall and with what looks like a financial tsunami about to hit football then it may be more about surviving the storm so as to come out of it stronger.

Steve L has made his fortune from financial planning and may have to make major changes to his plans for the future. The world has changed in 6 months and whatever statements he made previously about his ambitions may be irrelevant now. My ambition 6 months ago was for us to be in the play offs and get into the Premier League. My ambition now is to sit in my seat in a packed Ashton Gate surrounded by my football buddies. Nothing more than that for now.

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7 hours ago, Swede said:

It's been proven before with Tins and Keef that it just doesn't work.

The profile of the club is at its highest for sometime. Appointing anything other than a "Pat Lam" type coach will be detrimental and will ultimately affect ticket sales let alone performances on the pitch. Money ultimately talks. This will have a damaging affect on progress. If the club want to realise that Premier League ambition then they have to keep building on and building on both on the field and off it.

If it's not CH (& I hope it is as it will show ambition) then I wouldn't be surprised if its a foreign coach that's appointed. That wouldn't affect the board still dealing with player recruitment and contracts.

Agree , it hasn’t worked in the past , why would it work now? I simply can’t believe Holden will get the role if he does he has to be fourth or fifth choice and suggests we’ve been turned down by several candidates.

If Holden gets the job why wait if he was first choice ?

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Plenty of good managerial appointments have been made in football from within, and everyone has to start somewhere I guess; it's just inherently more risky though. (Although I do love the romanticism of an internal appointment doing well)

Personally I wouldnt give it to Holden. The only reason he had any positive impact was because he wasn't LJ, and it only lasted 2 games. Of course "the players like him"; it's like when the fun PE teacher comes to cover your maths lesson, "we love Mr PE teacher; he's fun and lets us do what we want!" Then after a term you realise you've learnt **** all.

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  • Maesknoll Red changed the title to If we appoint Holden (Merged Threads)
  • TomF changed the title to Dean Holden (Merged)

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