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Dean Holden (Merged)


If we appoint Holden I will...   

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17 minutes ago, Redpool said:

Agreed. As fans, we’ve been too positive and sat back for far too long. It’s about time we echo our frustrations to the club. 

Agreed but most have been doing this now on here for 6 to 7 weeks. What is next ?

There will be and there has to be an announcement in the coming days of some one special being appointed.

In 3 or 4 more years time when we will be high flyers In the Prem we will all look back to this current period and it will go down as one of the low moments in history of BCFC.

We will over come.

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24 minutes ago, Mr Hankey said:

Can’t be saying things like that about Lord Lansdown, you will have a contract put out on you!

Whilst i appreaciate the good he has done for us in regard to the stadium, which by the way no longer even belongs to the club but the man himself (!), & the training ground & we could have far worse in charge.......we could also have far better! The money he has spent & we seem no closer to the prem ( for people who say “oh i dont want to see us in the prem anyway” have a ******* look at yourself before deciding you want to follow a sport, surely you want your club to be the best), plus the thought of Little Jonny having the club in the future is enough to be worried about.

If Holden is appointed, hopefully he will be a success, but what happens when he doesn’t? Will Ashton put himself in charge, will we have a situation where Jon wants to have a go at telling the manager who to play? Strange times ahead.

How are we "no closer" ? When SL took over we'd spent only 6 of the previous 20 years at this level. Since then we've only spent 7 seasons outside of this level - and 12 of the last 14 seasons at this level sitting in and around the play off places for large parts of the last few seasons

I'd say we are much closer than we were when SL took over.

 

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Dean Holden may well turn out to be a very successful coach and/or manager in future, but given the history here, he is not the right person to take charge at Ashton Gate this time. Personally I don’t have a problem if he is appointed (although he is definitely not in my top 3 choices) but this view is very much in the minority on OTIB.

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3 minutes ago, 2015 said:

The reasons were Lee Johnson, in my opinion. Our style of football and any excitement went down the pan in January 2018, I have not since then seen a fluent City team. 
Having young players come through is all well and good, only if they are good enough, the Championship is a tough and unforgiving league, not like League 1 or League 2 where young players have more time to grow and where mistakes go unpunished. If we have a team full of academy products, we will likely be in the bottom 6 majority of the season. 
There was no hysteria, just fans who were simply fed up of dire tactics, poor football, combined with us then losing games. 

But it's all good, we're appointing his assistant

I do not believe it is fair or realistic to ignore the fact that Lee's very best players were sold and that, on top of that, injuries were a huge problem.

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37 minutes ago, italian dave said:

The first sentence says that if Holden is appointed it's because the Board believe he's the best choice. Are you saying you don't believe that? That the Board would deliberately appoint someone other than the person they think is the best choice? 

You may not like the appointment, you may not think it's the best choice, you may think the reason the board think as they d is because he'd be a 'yes' man, but that's not the point.

I've avoided contributing to this thread til now because it reminds me of some kind of weird self flagellation ritual, where all the pleasure some people used to derive from lambasting LJ each week somehow has to replaced, and there's nothing else to do that work ourselves up into a frenzy about something that we know nothing about and that may or nay not happen. 

I dont for one second believe they think he's the best. If they did  they would have known that very early on in the process. It would not have taken them 5 weeks to come up with that! What a ridiculous notion!

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2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

The most interesting aspect would be whether there’s a shift in expectations. You’d assume if we went for Hughton we’d be expecting top 6. I think that’s reasonable given his CV.

As in my reply to @JonDolman, LJ was expected to achieve top 6 and was sacked when it was (as good as) mathematically impossible. It stands to reason Holden should have these same expectations.

It feels an enormous gamble to entrust a tough target to such an inexperienced manager. Would the board be so inconsistent as to shift targets for Holden?

Hughton = Expectation

Cook = Hope

Holden = Fingers (and everything else) firmly crossed

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2 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

I really hope the Holden takes us up and some of the posters on this thread look back at it and apologise for being utterly embarrassing..! 

Everyone is hoping Holden is a success. Everyone who’s been negative about the appointment would be delighted if he proves them wrong. 
 

You can understand the outrage given the way the club has gone about it. Huge delay,  raised fan expectations thanks to Ashton, talking to proven seasoned managers.. and ending up with a fairly underwhelming assistant. That’s why people are angry - but people aren’t hoping *he* fails.

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10 minutes ago, Finley_Smith10 said:

Nothing to be positive about regarding this appointment when Chris Hughton’s the stand out candidate, cheap option and fans have lost trust and faith in the board 

Another thread with the same message, how do we know he wasn't offered the role and declined it?

The same applies to any of the endless list of names in the multiple threads.

There are probably 3 or 4 people who actually know who has been interviewed, have been made offers, who didn't want to come here etc.

Speculation is all there is at the moment, even the local journo seems to get his headlines from this forum.

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Just now, Bat Fastard said:

I do not believe it is fair or realistic to ignore the fact that Lee's very best players were sold and that, on top of that, injuries were a huge problem.

They are a factor, yes. However, even with Brownhill and Webster like you stated we were still scraping through performances, results and still going on these silly runs of streaks. We had stagnated for the past 2 years.

Performances, results, player transfers, they all ultimately fall on the Managers shoulders i'm afraid and he was in my eyes rightfully dismissed. 

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15 minutes ago, Desso said:

I've read many times on here that DH was part of the old failed regime. Yes he was but we don't know if he agreed with it. I didn't know LJ but he came across as a "my way or the highway" type. We dont know if DH disagreed with the way he did things or the team selection, and wasn't allowed to say.

I was pretty impressed by the team after LJ left. They looked rejuvenated and up for it. Having said that, I'm disappointed that a proven manager has probably been overlooked but I think DH deserves a chance. 

Just going now to put my tin hat on.

 

Do you not think that if Holden disagreed with LJ on tactics, coaching etc, then, he Holden, should have found himself a position at another club?

If that is so, makes Holden a hypocrite, for taking the pay while not agreeing with his boss's ideas.

We need a clean sweep of coaching staff.

We probably also need a change of approach from SL who could be "meddling too much in football matters".

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1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Everyone is hoping Holden is a success. Everyone who’s been negative about the appointment would be delighted if he proves them wrong. 
 

You can understand the outrage given the way the club has gone about it. Huge delay,  raised fan expectations thanks to Ashton, talking to proven seasoned managers.. and ending up with a fairly underwhelming assistant. That’s why people are angry - but people aren’t hoping *he* fails.

How about people give him a chance before putting him down as the wrong choice..? 

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3 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

The most interesting aspect would be whether there’s a shift in expectations. You’d assume if we went for Hughton we’d be expecting top 6. I think that’s reasonable given his CV.

As in my reply to @JonDolman, LJ was expected to achieve top 6 and was sacked when it was (as good as) mathematically impossible. It stands to reason Holden should have these same expectations.

It feels an enormous gamble to entrust a tough target to such an inexperienced manager. Would the board be so inconsistent as to shift targets for Holden?

I wouldn’t even care if we shifted our position and focused more on bringing young players through and pushing top half. None at all except for the fact that SL said 3 weeks ago it is time to take the next step towards PL. That for me is the biggest reason I am angry at this(if it becomes reality anyway).
 

SL can’t help but say shit to make us happy then act completely opposite. Started with Kodjia not being sold to the champ. Then after cup season he said target was playoffs which we didn’t make but LJ got a new contract. Now he is saying we want to take the next step and odds are DH will be appointed. I have said numerous times if SL just kept his mouth shut there would be less problems but he can’t help himself

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6 minutes ago, super slick said:

100%

Unfortunately the majority will continue plodding down to Ashton Gate, giving the club their undeserved backing. 

'Get behind Deano', board only doing what they think is right etc.

No interest anymore, fed up of being treated like customers. Time for a long break from the club when this is announced.  Sad as its been a major part of my life for the last 30 years. Never mind

Trouble is many just go down for the social. A chance to see their mates, a family outing or just a booze up. You also get the fans who support the club regardless which is admirable and something I couldn't do. 

I suppose it could be worse and we are an established championship team who have been pretty competitive over the last few seasons at points. Just frustrating since the prem has been formed we are one of the only clubs who in the second tier not to be there. Us, Millwall, Preston, Brentford. We have arguably the best infrastructure but still won't get there before the above.

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3 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

I really hope the Holden takes us up and some of the posters on this thread look back at it and apologise for being utterly embarrassing..! 

I actually believe that Holden will get support from most if he is given the job tbh as many people have the intelligence to see what is happening. If he was genuinely the number 1 choice and had utterly proven those credentials at interview he would already be in the job.

If it goes wrong then the dithering circus upstairs is an entirely different matter.

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12 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Perfect illustration of how to completely misread a post.

 

Have you no answer then to me responding to your assumption that majority of Bristol City fans are entitled and just 'wrong' because you don't agree with them then?

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Just now, Bar BS3 said:

How about people give him a chance before putting him down as the wrong choice..? 

Because of how it’s been handled. If the club sacked LJ and were totally upfront about it citing cost cutting - then appointing Holden immediately, people might understand.

The way they’ve taken so long, raised expectation and dithered about it has angered fans. 

If/when he’s appointed - people will obviously get behind the team. But it’s totally right that this appointment is scrutinised and criticised after the way it’s been handled.

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9 minutes ago, Cannybluff said:

Well, I agree with your points that being popular isn't a totally necessary prerequisite. However, I don't really believe that the process is in anyway related to it. It seemed you were saying he was being appointed due to his popularity? FWIW if Holden is appointed I will find it rather baffling that it has taken so long given our extensive search, home and abroad for an exciting manager. I feel we would have already known that holden was better than them all should that be the case.

The point was trying to make was similar to what you said be popular (with player, probs not the fans at this point😉) should not matters and if this is/was taken into account then this a massive problem and the perceived player culture at the club (perhaps I did not put this across in the right way) . agree with you on the rest of the points it is absolutely baffling all round and cant wait to hear the spin the club try's to put on it if it happens..

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7 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

I really hope the Holden takes us up and some of the posters on this thread look back at it and apologise for being utterly embarrassing..! 

“Oh look at me, look at me”

”I’m always right..”

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I've not read every post on this thread....so apologies if this point has been made already....  but you can't help but think that the people saying that being popular with the players is a bad thing will be the very same people who accuse him of losing the dressing room if it goes wrong.

The appointment is the wrong one for me, I don't agree with it for a second, but a little balance is required in all of the criticism

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10 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

Oh dear. Really searching for excuses there chappers. Being a billionaire, extremely successful financial expert , I think we can all assume he had all basis covered. There’s absolutely nothing feasible that can explain this climb down . 

Apologies for adding reality into the debate. So obvious really, you just carry on spending money even though there is no indication of when there will be be any customer income, or how long it will last, or even whether there will actually be a full season.

 

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9 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

I do not believe it is fair or realistic to ignore the fact that Lee's very best players were sold and that, on top of that, injuries were a huge problem.

Why were we so shit after 4 months off and a fully fit squad? Why did he still not know his best 11 - given that he changed 8 players after 1 game?

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9 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

How are we "no closer" ? When SL took over we'd spent only 6 of the previous 20 years at this level. Since then we've only spent 7 seasons outside of this level - and 12 of the last 14 seasons at this level sitting in and around the play off places for large parts of the last few seasons

I'd say we are much closer than we were when SL took over.

 

Sorry, i meant closer as in when we got back to the Championship under Cotts & all the talk of the Prem being the next step.

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3 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Have you no answer then to me responding to your assumption that majority of Bristol City fans are entitled and just 'wrong' because you don't agree with them then?

Again, you have completely misunderstood or misread the post.

No point in debating something that is in your head but not in my post 

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