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Dean Holden (Merged)


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If we appoint Holden I will...   

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15 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I suspect the excuse if this occurs as feared, then it will be a combination of Covid and if it happens wage cap. 

Now I'm interested in what people who dismiss the Covid aspect have to say about the second. As in, what budget can we offer Hughton if the wage cap is voted in?

Any thoughts @Atticus @ollywhyte or @Red Army87

How do you sell that to Hughton or similar? 

I’m not dismissing COVID, my concern is more around it appearing that we have removed LJ, without certainty of how we are going to handle the next steps and are now realising that we cannot agree terms with targets.

as a result, if rumour is to be believed, we are going to end up with broadly the same management team, with Ashley Williams added and the guy who actually has management experience, removed.

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9 minutes ago, Mendip City said:

Quite simply, it’ll be the same anywhere he goes outside the prem. 

the answer is working with a compact quality squad (as Cotts did in the promotion season) not a bloated mish-mash of like for like players. Oh and you use the academy. 
 

CH would understand that and it would be up to him weather he fancied it or not. 

 

Hmm. Leeds won the league with an even bigger roster of full professionals than us.

The difference is being all killer no filler. 

Nothing wrong with squad rotation. Plenty wrong with accumulating flotsam and jetsam. 

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3 minutes ago, Atticus said:

Im not saying Hughton or nobody. Its someone else bar Holden. I cannot believe that no manager out there would not want the job due to potential wage constraints next season aside Holden. 

For me, as crazy as it may sound, I wish we'd kept Johnson if this was the alternative.

Completely agree. 

LJ didn't look like he was going to tear up trees, get City to the PL on auto and keep us there but he was building and maintaining a fairly stable and sustainable championship model with room to grow in the future. Now the idea of moving LJ on as stated by Lansdown was to get us to the PL, the "next step". Okay, I can see that. Thanks for what you've done LJ, now it's time for that push by... letting one of your underlings take your job?! Hello?

Something isn't right. I can't imagine this is what SL had in mind, especially after learning from the Bears so I feel anger at him would be misplaced. But somewhere (Ashton, IDK?) something has gone awry. Someone must know more and if this situation comes to pass as is rumoured then we need to know. We would definitely be better continuing in mid term under LJ and coming up with a true succession plan... if true.

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3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Yeah tend to agree then. 

Seems odd we've ended up in this position. I fear a wasted season as it is, and if it's Holden it might be eventful- but at the wrong end! 

You're right, seems unbelievable. Wonder if relative lack of transfer budget/wage increase might be driving this,  in terms of candidates not being so keen.

Plenty of clubs will be in the same boat though, Cook feels like he would be a good compromise candidate. Good manager for one and used to a relatively tighter budget.

All this has done for me is made me completely lose faith in Lansdown now. Its one ludicrous appointment to many. It cannot come down to bad judgement any longer.

And the way this has been handled has shown me how completely inept they all are.

Also how far removed they are from fans, and out of touch with us too. Although, that's been brewing for a long time. 

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He hasn't been appointed yet but, if he is, why not withhold judgement and wait to see the kind of football DH plays, the league position after 10 to 15 games, how key players within the squad play and the type of players recruited?

It was only five games and not too much can be read into it,  but I thought players such as Paterson, Desilva, Benkovic, Vyner, Kallas & Weimann all improved and played with a bit of freedom.

Getting to the Premiership has to be the aim but, even if it isn't achieved initially,  seeing talented young players getting a chance in an attacking philosophy and a consistent formation with a mid-table position can't be that bad can it.  That's probably the worst case scenario under DH as I suspect with a couple of additions we'll still challenge for the play-offs.

Was OTIB around when the Aussies came up with the term 'whinging poms'?

 

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7 minutes ago, Atticus said:

All this has done for me is made me completely lose faith in Lansdown now. Its one ludicrous appointment to many. It cannot come down to bad judgement any longer.

And the way this has been handled has shown me how completely inept they all are.

Also how far removed they are from fans, and out of touch with us too. Although, that's been brewing for a long time. 

No one ever says it but has he taken us as far as he can? Which from a football sense isn’t far forward from where he found us... spending time in tier 2 and 3, exactly as we did for the previous 20 years. 

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2 minutes ago, Mendip City said:

No one ever says it but has he taken us as far as he can? Which from a football sense isn’t far forward from where he found us... spending time in tier 2 and 3, exactly as we did for the previous 20 years. 

Quite. And the bit of success we had for that one season. Well that was binned off pretty quickly wasn't it.

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Just now, bcfcnick said:

It was only five games and not too much can be read into it,  but I thought players such as Paterson, Desilva, Benkovic, Vyner, Kallas & Weimann all improved and played with a bit of freedom.

 

But let's be honest, we beat a team who came bottom, a team who finished 17th, drew with a team 15th and 9th and lost to a team in 6th. 

We were hardly world beaters. Also I was never totally sold with Pato and Weimann in a midfield 3.

Yes we were better than the turgid crap under LJ, but I didn't see signs Holden was the next Klopp (and listening to his interviews I don't think he expected the job either).

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1 minute ago, bcfcnick said:

He hasn't been appointed yet but, if he is, why not withhold judgement and wait to see the kind of football DH plays, the league position after 10 to 15 games, how key players within the squad play and the type of players recruited?

I'd normally agree somewhat (fair shake and all that) but if mid table + possible challenging is the best we can hope for... That sits at odds with the sacking of LJ who was doing just that in a sustainable manner without danger of instability plus needless paying off, plus the publicly stated aim/goals of PL.

Fans have every right to be concerned with this contradiction and failure to meet stated goals IMO.

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Just now, 2015 said:

Holden, McAllister and Williams.

The club is officially laughing at us

You literally can't look at those three names and comprehend they could be our management trio in the Championship. It's insane!

Managing a side who are about to move into a multi million pound luxury training ground and play at one of the best stadiums in the Championship. The infrastructure in place of a Premier League club.

 

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2 minutes ago, Rinkadink said:

I'd normally agree somewhat (fair shake and all that) but if mid table + possible challenging is the best we can hope for... That sits at odds with the sacking of LJ who was doing just that in a sustainable manner without danger of instability plus needless paying off, plus the publicly stated aim/goals of PL.

Fans have every right to be concerned with this contradiction and failure to meet stated goals IMO.

The difference is we might see the average of about 1.2 shots per game improved drastically, the likes of Morrell and Walsh given a chance and some attractive football rather than turgid football witnessed under LJ.

I'd rather see that than grind ourselves out of the Championship only to come down again with depressing set up to contain football.  A lot of the managers mentioned would want to spend heavily and completely change the squad so a 'name' manager doesn't automatically equate to promotion to the promised land. It might even be defensive football and poor results.

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13 minutes ago, Harry said:

I think Holden will do well. 

I think with this squad we should aim to do better than well, has he got the pedigree to get us over the line? I have my doubts.

Problem he will have if he starts badly there will likely be a mutiny. Klopp stated you need to have united club to achieve success, we are far from united and there is rightly a lot of pent up anger. He will always be seen as the cheap unwanted option, tough gig to shake that off. 

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1 hour ago, AshtonG666 said:

Covid will be their main get out clause

Whats more likely

  • City fans buying Covid as the cause behind Holden
  • General population buying the Tory excuses that Covid is why Brexit will be a massive failure
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27 minutes ago, bcfcnick said:

Getting to the Premiership has to be the aim but, even if it isn't achieved initially,  seeing talented young players getting a chance in an attacking philosophy and a consistent formation with a mid-table position can't be that bad can it.

Please, I have heard this crap so often now. No, if we wanted to just hang around the division forever then yes just employ DH. We have 90% of the pieces in place to be a top 6 side. We need a manager to accompany these pieces. This is why they can get away with even entertaining the thought of employing a nobody who hasn't managed 10 ******* games!! We have fans who will accept whatever shite is thrown at them. We have been towing the line with LJ for years and getting mid table finishes and seeing young players come through. We even saw some good attacking football for a while but after all that look where we are. In the same place we started with people willing to accept mediocrity again. Get a decent experienced manager in to compliment the decent squad we have here now, maybe a bigger name than LJ can get our better player who are on the fence about leaving to stay, WTF is DH going to be able to offer in coaching ability to better the players we have here. He has been here through half of the shite we been seeing lately. The players can't have any respect for him as a manager as he has never ever been one ffs!!

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1 hour ago, ScottishRed said:

@Kid in the Riot  bloody hell this is happening 

Looks like Gregor was on the money doesn’t it?  He gets a bad “press” on OTIB, but he’s been pretty aligned with Kid all the way through.

1 hour ago, Mr Hankey said:

Having Holden as manager is bad enough, but Ashley Williams as assistant, Ashley ******* Williams??? The most ill disciplined experienced player i have seen, how does he land this role ???

This is all one giant wind up, im sure of it...

Ashley Williams has been really good off the pitch with the young players.  If true I think it’s a clever appointment by Holden.  It brings an outsider (in terms of Macca being a SL man from previous comments) into the fold.  Wonder if they knew of each other when Dean was at Oldham and Ashley was at Stockport?  Plus wouldn’t surprise me if Macca leaves at some point too, e.g. if LJ gets a job.  Means Holden has some continuity.

1 hour ago, Galway Red said:

Would love to know Hughton's side of the story especially considering the fact that it was released by certain media outlets that he was set to be announced as manager, something went wrong 

I just think they jumped the gun.  City interviewed him, was probably the top choice, 2+2 = Announce Hughton....but it’s all went pear-shaped.

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I suspect the excuse if this occurs as feared, then it will be a combination of Covid and if it happens wage cap. 

Now I'm interested in what people who dismiss the Covid aspect have to say about the second. As in, what budget can we offer Hughton if the wage cap is voted in?

Any thoughts @Atticus @ollywhyte or @Red Army87

How do you sell that to Hughton or similar? 

What if the club came out and said something along the lines of:-

We have been chasing some high calibre candidates, but in light of the recent redundancies in Ashton Gate Limited which are a key part of our “family” we felt it was wrong to then go out and employ a new manager on £1m+.  Therefore we’ve decided to promote from within to show some solidarity.

I don’t believe they will, but would it make people reflect differently?  And, yes, I know covid has been around longer than when LJ was dismissed, but maybe some of the financials depended on fans returning, conferences etc....and the recent cancellations of the sporting pilots have now been fully understood or at least calculated with a better degree of confidence.

Re wage cap, Ashton on EFL, maybe he has a feel for the vote?

53 minutes ago, bcfcnick said:

He hasn't been appointed yet but, if he is, why not withhold judgement and wait to see the kind of football DH plays, the league position after 10 to 15 games, how key players within the squad play and the type of players recruited?

It was only five games and not too much can be read into it,  but I thought players such as Paterson, Desilva, Benkovic, Vyner, Kallas & Weimann all improved and played with a bit of freedom.

Getting to the Premiership has to be the aim but, even if it isn't achieved initially,  seeing talented young players getting a chance in an attacking philosophy and a consistent formation with a mid-table position can't be that bad can it.  That's probably the worst case scenario under DH as I suspect with a couple of additions we'll still challenge for the play-offs.

Was OTIB around when the Aussies came up with the term 'whinging poms'?

 

Agree, but that’s not his OTIB works is it ??‍♂️

50 minutes ago, Harry said:

I think Holden will do well. 

Are you just saying that?

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On 05/08/2020 at 09:07, bcfcfinker said:

Your analogy is flawed because football is not the same as any work place I know. It's damn difficult to sack football players and fans are not employees, they are more like shareholders (who's only power is to not attend matches or not to buy season tickets if they are unhappy).

Most managers aren't sacked in the traditional sense. They are put on gardening leave, and they negotiate the terms of severance: either a lump sum to pay them off right away, or the remainder of their contract until they find a new role.

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