If anyone still honestly believes

[54-46]

Is there an equivalent of MA on the rugby side of things?

They seem to have appointed a top level boss for that side of things so wonder if he is under the same alleged constraints

[Hxj]

Of course someone other than the manager has to have final say on recruitment - standard practice in a well run business - it is very easy to spend someone else’s money and even easier the more there is.

[Kibs]

1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Hooray, finally someone gets it! 

I think the quote from SL was that he spoke to LJ before AND after games, an unprecedented relationship between owner and manager. He didn't enjoy such close relationships with SC and SOD, to say the least...

Something else that stuck out recently was his comment in the Talksport interview where he said "Lee has been employed by MYSELF for a number of years". Just a little insight into how much control he has, and likes to have, over the football club.

Shame he can't take more of a backseat like he does with the rugby.

Can you imagine Pat Lam giving him regular updates? Nope!

[CyderInACan]

1 minute ago, 54-46 said:

Is there an equivalent of MA on the rugby side of things?

They seem to have appointed a top level boss for that side of things so wonder if he is under the same alleged constraints

I think Mark Tainton is CEO but it’s miles away from the power that Ashtray wields at the football club 

[CyderInACan]

2 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

I think Mark Tainton is CEO but it’s miles away from the power that Ashtray wields at the football club 

https://www.bristolbearsrugby.com/teams/directors/

Forgot that JL was on there too

[Swede]

5 hours ago, Southport Red said:

True Panda, but they were successful Number 2s. DH was co-culpable for the LJ performances that were deemed not good enough, so why do we think he should run the show?

Exactly the point.

Why on earth sack Streaky at the time if all you were going to do is replace him with Streaky 2 or Streaky 3. They are part of the problem why we continually tail off after long winless runs.

I get that they stay until the end of the season but that should be that.

The system is stale and needs freshening up.

We have everything to gain with the stadium, fan base and new training facility but we are trying to run it on a League 1 coaching set up.

 

[RobintheRed Red]

4 hours ago, Red Exile said:

Yep - I just listened to that too. You'd assume he was expecting a completely different series of events to those which might lead to the appointment of Dean Holden a few days before the players return.

I think that interview was a few weeks back before Ashton stuck his oar in. 

[Olé]

7 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I think the quote from SL was that he spoke to LJ before AND after games, an unprecedented relationship between owner and manager. He didn't enjoy such close relationships with SC and SOD, to say the least...

Exactly Will, and I said to myself at the time, it's going to take a lot for SL to ever give up this privilege.

When you've run a business, access and influence is everything. SL may not be qualified in football but dresses this up another way so that Holden will empower him and indulge him the same way that LJ did. Bottom line.

MA is blamed because he operates directly for SL, with disproportionate power over footballing matters (and at his salary and level of spin/smarm he is fair game for blame too), but it is SL who creates the dysfunction.

I always wonder what it'll take for SL to give up his access to play with the shiny toy, and I imagine consistent failure to the point where he'd rather just leave well alone in the hope someone else gets the club promoted.

The scary thing is that by appointing Holden, not only is SL not close to that point, he has probably convinced himself that LJ became the issue, and that he and MA can simply finish the job with inexperienced coach #2.

I bore no ill to LJ and I'll bear no ill to Holden, who seems like a nice guy who more than ever is being setup to bear the brunt. It should be the clearest red flag to everybody on what the owner wants from his club: access.

[daored]

50 minutes ago, Olé said:

Exactly Will, and I said to myself at the time, it's going to take a lot for SL to ever give up this privilege.

When you've run a business, access and influence is everything. SL may not be qualified in football but dresses this up another way so that Holden will empower him and indulge him the same way that LJ did. Bottom line.

MA is blamed because he operates directly for SL, with disproportionate power over footballing matters (and at his salary and level of spin/smarm he is fair game for blame too), but it is SL who creates the dysfunction.

I always wonder what it'll take for SL to give up his access to play with the shiny toy, and I imagine consistent failure to the point where he'd rather just leave well alone in the hope someone else gets the club promoted.

The scary thing is that by appointing Holden, not only is SL not close to that point, he has probably convinced himself that LJ became the issue, and that he and MA can simply finish the job with inexperienced coach #2.

I bore no ill to LJ and I'll bear no ill to Holden, who seems like a nice guy who more than ever is being setup to bear the brunt. It should be the clearest red flag to everybody on what the owner wants from his club: access.

I agree with a lot of what you say , I think the most important thing is the club brings in an experienced coach to assist Holden. It a risk to appoint Holden , even bigger risk for his back room staff to be Jamie Mac & Ashley Williams 

[luke_bristol]

8 hours ago, Swede said:

Exactly the point.

Why on earth sack Streaky at the time if all you were going to do is replace him with Streaky 2 or Streaky 3. They are part of the problem why we continually tail off after long winless runs.

I get that they stay until the end of the season but that should be that.

The system is stale and needs freshening up.

We have everything to gain with the stadium, fan base and new training facility but we are trying to run it on a League 1 coaching set up.

 

But expect the fans to pay Premier League prices 

[robin_unreliant]

I can buy the concept that Lansdown wants control and that DH would allow that to continue. What I can't understand is how chasing Gerrard fits into that theory. 

[Major Isewater]

10 hours ago, Mad Cyril said:

I can take a dump and simultaneously post on here with no spelling mustakes.....

Beat that.

Is this why they call you Mr Brownscreen ? 

[Major Isewater]

9 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

I can buy the concept that Lansdown wants control and that DH would allow that to continue. What I can't understand is how chasing Gerrard fits into that theory. 

There are so many mixed and damaging messages coming out of the club that I question the solidarity. 
 

We are in rather dangerous territory and I am concerned.

What the hell’s going on .

I can see Mark Ashton ‘ leaving ‘ . 
 

[Son of Fred]

10 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Shame he can't take more of a backseat like he does with the rugby

Absolutely...

Thing is SL doesn't "know" rugby,,so in the main keeps his mouth closed.

He thinks he "knows" football...

[CyderInACan]

10 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Shame he can't take more of a backseat like he does with the rugby.

I can imagine Pat giving him pretty short shrift if he rang up for a chat about tactics and systems prior to a game! 

That said, SL has been quite vocal on off-field stuff recently as far as rugby's governance etc has been concerned. 

[Son of Fred]

8 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

There are so many mixed and damaging messages coming out of the club that I question the solidarity. 
 

We are in rather dangerous territory and I am concerned.

What the hell’s going on .

I can see Mark Ashton ‘ leaving ‘ . 
 

A mix of big ego's vying for position.

Questionable -communication,,,especially between the 'head coach' & recruitment..

No clear strategies or anyone seemingly pulling everyone together as a team...

A lack of humility..

The club looks & feels like a ship minus it's rudder.

The gut says far deeper issues than the current problem of recruiting a new 'head coach'...

 

[Bristol Oil Services]

48 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

I can buy the concept that Lansdown wants control and that DH would allow that to continue. What I can't understand is how chasing Gerrard fits into that theory. 

Yes, I was pondering this too.

Is it possible that Steve and Jon were a teeny bit dazzled by, and giddy about, the prospect of Stevie Gee of Liverpool and England working for/reporting to them?

[red panda]

1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

There are so many mixed and damaging messages coming out of the club that I question the solidarity. 
 

We are in rather dangerous territory and I am concerned.

What the hell’s going on .

I can see Mark Ashton ‘ leaving ‘ . 
 

Are there really mixed messages coming from the club?  Or might they be keeping a lid on things, leading to a deluge of wild, random and often contradictory speculation about what's going on from fans, journalists and people who should know better?

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

3 hours ago, Olé said:

Exactly Will, and I said to myself at the time, it's going to take a lot for SL to ever give up this privilege.

When you've run a business, access and influence is everything. SL may not be qualified in football but dresses this up another way so that Holden will empower him and indulge him the same way that LJ did. Bottom line.

MA is blamed because he operates directly for SL, with disproportionate power over footballing matters (and at his salary and level of spin/smarm he is fair game for blame too), but it is SL who creates the dysfunction.

I always wonder what it'll take for SL to give up his access to play with the shiny toy, and I imagine consistent failure to the point where he'd rather just leave well alone in the hope someone else gets the club promoted.

The scary thing is that by appointing Holden, not only is SL not close to that point, he has probably convinced himself that LJ became the issue, and that he and MA can simply finish the job with inexperienced coach #2.

I bore no ill to LJ and I'll bear no ill to Holden, who seems like a nice guy who more than ever is being setup to bear the brunt. It should be the clearest red flag to everybody on what the owner wants from his club: access.

Maybe the day SL would be willing to give up this privilege is the day he withdraws his money from the club.  I don’t find it at all surprising that the owner wants a close relationship with the CEO and Head Coach.  In any selection process, one of the most important , if not the most important, factor is fit.  Does the candidate fit the club?  If I was Lansdown I would be asking “Can I work with this person?”.  Surely the aim is to create a structure that works from top to bottom by appointing candidates who fit the overall plan and ethos?

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

2 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

There are so many mixed and damaging messages coming out of the club that I question the solidarity. 
 

We are in rather dangerous territory and I am concerned.

What the hell’s going on .

I can see Mark Ashton ‘ leaving ‘ . 
 

I don’t see ANY messages coming out of the club.  There was reference in another post to our ‘public’ pursuit of Steve Gerard, but the fact is that this has been the least public managerial recruitment I can remember.  The club has sad NOTHING and everything we have been talking about for a month has been pure speculation fuelled by journalists who are reading OTIB, so the whole thing has been going round in circles!

[Major Isewater]

10 minutes ago, red panda said:

Are there really mixed messages coming from the club?  Or might they be keeping a lid on things, leading to a deluge of wild, random and often contradictory speculation about what's going on from fans, journalists and people who should know better?

No there really are mixed messages whilst admittedly the club are keeping schtum on their position. 
 

A) Message 1 - ‘ Prepare for a season of austerity ‘ - So possibly no marquee signings, our big earners sold off and going with what’s left .

B) Message 2 - We let LJ go because we want someone to take the club to the next level - serious statement of intent.
 

Finally we are really going for it and are in a position to attract some of the world’s top coaches to get us into the Prem . ( step forward Dean Holden ! )

[Bat Fastard]

1 minute ago, Major Isewater said:

No there really are mixed messages whilst admittedly the club are keeping schtum on their position. 
 

A) Message 1 - ‘ Prepare for a season of austerity ‘ - So possibly no marquee signings, our big earners sold off and going with what’s left .

B) Message 2 - We let LJ go because we want someone to take the club to the next level - serious statement of intent.
 

Finally we are really going for it and are in a position to attract some of the world’s top coaches to get us into the Prem . ( step forward Dean Holden ! )

Message 1 is the most likely to be true, in my opinion. LJ may have kicked up a fuss about this - especially having lost Webster and Brownhill on top of the long term injuries that blighted the season.  It is easy to deflect the fans to condemn the front man. I feel sorry for LJ.

[The Bard]

12 hours ago, 54-46 said:

Is there an equivalent of MA on the rugby side of things?

They seem to have appointed a top level boss for that side of things so wonder if he is under the same alleged constraints

Yes. He is a proper club man though. Mark Tainton. The chairman is a local rugby man. SL possibly knows little about Rugby and knows he does. It's different with football.  He's been involved for ages...

[LondonBristolian]

As others have said, the problem for me is the inconsistency.

If the club had said back at the start of July that they needed to tighten belts, that they wanted to focus on developing players at the club and they believed in the circumstances an internal appointment was best and that Holden was the best placed person to take the team forward next season then I could have got on board with that. I'd have been a bit disappointed we'd not gone for a bigger name but I'd feel the club had a clear vision and a plan and that we were doing what was necessary in the light of COVID.

What is frustrating is this five week process involving a wide range of different candidates. There are cases for Gerrard, Hughton, Cook, Neil and even- if you made an argument that stability mattered most at the moment - Dean Holden. BUT they are very different managers offering very different things. We seem to have gone from

1. Make a statement appointment involving a big name player who will generate media coverage and we'll pay what we need to get him

to

2. Make an ambitious appointment of a manager with experience of promotion and survival in the Premier League

to

3. Make a canny appointment of a manager with a great track record in League One and a good record in the Championship who has over-delivered wherever he has been

to

4. Appoint a guy at a comparable club to us who is already doing the kind of job we would want

to 

5. Promote from within and tighten our belts

There is nothing inherently wrong with any of those positions but they seem to represent five different visions for how the club could proceed next season. In that light, it's really hard to see this as a coherent or consistent recruitment process.

I'll want Holden to do well, support him and judge him on results but the last five weeks do not indicate any sort of consistent or clear vision at the club and, if Holden does prove to be a great appointment, it feels like it will be one borne of accident rather than design. 

[The Bard]

2 hours ago, CyderInACan said:

I can imagine Pat giving him pretty short shrift if he rang up for a chat about tactics and systems prior to a game! 

That said, SL has been quite vocal on off-field stuff recently as far as rugby's governance etc has been concerned. 

I posted previously about the ability to be able to manage upwards being the key skill.  

 

[Kid in the Riot]

If money was such a significant issue then why haven't they told Hughton he definitely won't be getting the job? 

[daored]

1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said:

If money was such a significant issue then why haven't they told Hughton he definitely won't be getting the job? 

Who are the three that Gregor references in tweet , Holden , Hughton & Neil?

[City oz]

5 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

If money was such a significant issue then why haven't they told Hughton he definitely won't be getting the job? 

How do you know they haven’t 

[Davefevs]

5 hours ago, Olé said:

Exactly Will, and I said to myself at the time, it's going to take a lot for SL to ever give up this privilege.

When you've run a business, access and influence is everything. SL may not be qualified in football but dresses this up another way so that Holden will empower him and indulge him the same way that LJ did. Bottom line.

MA is blamed because he operates directly for SL, with disproportionate power over footballing matters (and at his salary and level of spin/smarm he is fair game for blame too), but it is SL who creates the dysfunction.

I always wonder what it'll take for SL to give up his access to play with the shiny toy, and I imagine consistent failure to the point where he'd rather just leave well alone in the hope someone else gets the club promoted.

The scary thing is that by appointing Holden, not only is SL not close to that point, he has probably convinced himself that LJ became the issue, and that he and MA can simply finish the job with inexperienced coach #2.

I bore no ill to LJ and I'll bear no ill to Holden, who seems like a nice guy who more than ever is being setup to bear the brunt. It should be the clearest red flag to everybody on what the owner wants from his club: access.

Certainly a shift away from “MA is the bad guy” in the last 24 hours to SL or at least SL and MA, which I can get my head around.  I think there is definitely a case of SL thinks he’s knows something about football.  Maybe he is a wannabe like MA is too.

But what about transfers, surely that’s MA and LJ (in whatever proportion you want to allocate), not SL choosing players? Of course he’ll sign off deals, but that’s different.  That suggests he’s given MA too much control also.

3 hours ago, CyderInACan said:

I can imagine Pat giving him pretty short shrift if he rang up for a chat about tactics and systems prior to a game! 

That said, SL has been quite vocal on off-field stuff recently as far as rugby's governance etc has been concerned. 

Cotts told SL to “eff off out of my dressing room” When he arrived.  When Joe was mascot, and you get to go in the dressing room before kickoff (whilst the players are getting ready to go and do their warm up), Cotts was not in there.  Flint was in another part of the dressing room too, not engaging with the fans.  1h15 before kickoff we are ushered out, and Cotts comes in.  None of us loitering for a chance of a quick word with Cotts, he had his manager head on, the guys arranging the tour, knew to get us out ASAP.

[Guest]

Just about sums things up