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If anyone still honestly believes


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5 hours ago, Olé said:

Exactly Will, and I said to myself at the time, it's going to take a lot for SL to ever give up this privilege.

When you've run a business, access and influence is everything. SL may not be qualified in football but dresses this up another way so that Holden will empower him and indulge him the same way that LJ did. Bottom line.

MA is blamed because he operates directly for SL, with disproportionate power over footballing matters (and at his salary and level of spin/smarm he is fair game for blame too), but it is SL who creates the dysfunction.

I always wonder what it'll take for SL to give up his access to play with the shiny toy, and I imagine consistent failure to the point where he'd rather just leave well alone in the hope someone else gets the club promoted.

The scary thing is that by appointing Holden, not only is SL not close to that point, he has probably convinced himself that LJ became the issue, and that he and MA can simply finish the job with inexperienced coach #2.

I bore no ill to LJ and I'll bear no ill to Holden, who seems like a nice guy who more than ever is being setup to bear the brunt. It should be the clearest red flag to everybody on what the owner wants from his club: access.

Certainly a shift away from “MA is the bad guy” in the last 24 hours to SL or at least SL and MA, which I can get my head around.  I think there is definitely a case of SL thinks he’s knows something about football.  Maybe he is a wannabe like MA is too.

But what about transfers, surely that’s MA and LJ (in whatever proportion you want to allocate), not SL choosing players? Of course he’ll sign off deals, but that’s different.  That suggests he’s given MA too much control also.

3 hours ago, CyderInACan said:

I can imagine Pat giving him pretty short shrift if he rang up for a chat about tactics and systems prior to a game! 

That said, SL has been quite vocal on off-field stuff recently as far as rugby's governance etc has been concerned. 

Cotts told SL to “eff off out of my dressing room” When he arrived.  When Joe was mascot, and you get to go in the dressing room before kickoff (whilst the players are getting ready to go and do their warm up), Cotts was not in there.  Flint was in another part of the dressing room too, not engaging with the fans.  1h15 before kickoff we are ushered out, and Cotts comes in.  None of us loitering for a chance of a quick word with Cotts, he had his manager head on, the guys arranging the tour, knew to get us out ASAP.

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  • TomF changed the title to If anyone still honestly believes
1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Maybe the day SL would be willing to give up this privilege is the day he withdraws his money from the club.  I don’t find it at all surprising that the owner wants a close relationship with the CEO and Head Coach.  In any selection process, one of the most important , if not the most important, factor is fit.  Does the candidate fit the club?  If I was Lansdown I would be asking “Can I work with this person?”.  Surely the aim is to create a structure that works from top to bottom by appointing candidates who fit the overall plan and ethos?

Sorry, in what capacity is SL working with the coach or manager? He's not the Director of Football, he's not even the Chief Executive, he's the owner. He's made an investment in owning the club, the quality of his relationship with the manager should be entirely straightforward and cordial and not based upon access and influence to the matters the manager is experienced in.

If I work in any large privately owned organisation the investors/owners/shareholders have an interest in the members of the board for oversight and governance, they do not need access to tell day to day management their jobs. We're a £30m turnover business where the major shareholder insists on placing very accessible junior people in the most skilled role in the organisation

Why is that? Would he have ever done the same at Hargreaves Lansdown? I think we know the answer. In the past I would have been on the same side as you and endorsing the "structure that works top to bottom" and "fitting a plan". With LJ the plan was worth trying, but if we appoint Dean Holden, it will show it up as no ethos, just a very deliberate route to top down manipulation.

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3 minutes ago, Olé said:

Sorry, in what capacity is SL working with the coach or manager? He's not the Director of Football, he's not even the Chief Executive, he's the owner. He's made an investment in owning the club, the quality of his relationship with the manager should be entirely straightforward and cordial and not based upon access and influence to the matters the manager is experienced in.

If I work in any large privately owned organisation the investors/owners/shareholders have an interest in the members of the board for oversight and governance, they do not need access to tell day to day management their jobs. We're a £30m turnover business where the major shareholder insists on placing very accessible junior people in the most skilled role in the organisation

Why is that? Would he have ever done the same at Hargreaves Lansdown? I think we know the answer. In the past I would have been on the same side as you and endorsing the "structure that works top to bottom" and "fitting a plan". With LJ the plan was worth trying, but if we appoint Dean Holden, it will show it up as no ethos, just a very deliberate route to top down manipulation.

It's worth remembering he made his name in partnership with someone else not on his own.  

This is very much his own show whereas at the Rugby club I sense more of a partnership / collaborative. 

 

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19 hours ago, The Humble Realist said:

I'm amazed how many people defend the board /club regardless of what happens. 

Surely no body thought when we sacked LJ that Holden was the right man?

Isnt that view enough (at this moment in time ) to now be pretty annoyed at him getting the job?

I would expect him to be considered as a matter of courtesy if nothing else.

Why wouldn't people defend the board when the criticism is fueled by the assumptions, conspiracies and rantings of those who know no more about what is going on than the next man. If there was one iota of fact to what is being said then fair enough but sadly there isn't.

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4 hours ago, robin_unreliant said:

I can buy the concept that Lansdown wants control and that DH would allow that to continue. What I can't understand is how chasing Gerrard fits into that theory. 

Perhaps they think because he is somewhat young and inexperienced as manager they can manipulate him too. With the added benefit of much bigger exposure driving up merch and SC sales. 

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