LJ interview with Henry Winter in today’s Times. Warning high BS content.

[Malago]

Lee Johnson is looking for the words to describe his departure from Bristol City after 4½ years as manager. He loves the people and the place, having also enjoyed some of his best playing days there. Now it’s over.

“It feels like a break-up,” Johnson says. “Your missus has left you, gone off with someone else, everyone else is having great fun, and it’s, ‘Someone love me’. There’s that desire to bounce back.” And he will. Johnson is naturally ebullient, full of self-belief as well as a desire to learn, and knows he will be in demand. He’s already been approached, but his emotional engagement with Bristol City was powerful.

“Four and a half years of every minute of every day, all consuming, all my energy going into it,” Johnson continues over a socially-distanced soft drink in Nantwich on Thursday. “I was so emotionally invested in Bristol City. It was everything. I was all-in.
 

Having been set a target of the top six by the owner, Steve Lansdown, City were drifting away from play-off contention, and the crunch came against Cardiff City at Ashton Gate on July 4. “I could smell it coming,” Johnson recalls. “There’s been times where Bristol City could have done it before and they stood by me, as well as times I could have left and stayed loyal. I feel the timing was natural. It’s a long time in a division, a long time at one club in football now, and probably what would have kept us together is us in the Premier League. I knew before the game that if we haven’t won I’m gone.” City lost, leaving them 12th.

“Mark Ashton, the chief executive, called me into the office directly after the game. It’s a bit awkward. ‘Sorry.’ I’m pretty sure Steve Lansdown, a good owner with good values and good morals, would have wanted to speak to me himself [in person] as he then told me later when we discussed it over the phone. Listen, we’re men. We’re also friends. It couldn’t have been easy for them either. I didn’t say they were wrong. I took it like a man, wished them all the best, thanked them for the opportunity.

“I haven’t lost any confidence because I was still the longest-serving manager [in the Championship]. I failed on our ultimate goal: to get into the Premier League. At the same time there were so many successes, historic wins, the [EFL] Cup run. When we played Man United and Man City we got coverage in 88 countries all around the world. I’m proud of those great moments. We’ve nurtured good youth players. Liam Walsh and Joe Morrell are really good players. We got 22,000 crowds every week. It’s a great city and it’s a place that I’ll miss dearly.

“The club are really on a sound financial footing, training ground on the way, all paid for by obviously a good ownership but also the successes on the pitch, whether that’s revenue or sales.” He had to sell important players. “We lost a lot of them. You can become a victim of your own success.” Players shone, were coveted and some moved, the likes of Adam Webster [for £20 million], Josh Brownhill [£9 million] and Lloyd Kelly [£13 million].

“Bobby Reid [£10 million) and Joe Bryan [£6 million] both got promoted with Fulham. I’

“It’s not a frustration because you understand the remit of the job. I bought into the sustainability project to put the club in a better position than it once was. But you want to build momentum. What I really wanted to do was give the people what they wanted and that was top-level football.

“Day one, when I was told, I was gutted. Day two, just completely humbled. I must have had 600-plus messages. I was in tears.” He opens his phone. “I’ll tap in a random name. Adam Nagy — that was a nice message.” It’s long and heartfelt from the Hungarian international, paying tribute to Johnson as a manager and a man. “I get messages like that and you cry your eyes out.

“I’m not bitter. I’ve been to those LMA dinners and there are some great people there but sometimes people hold on to stuff for 15 years. One guy was still talking about something that happened eight years ago and I could feel that anger. But you have to say, ‘Right, it was a good innings, there are things for me to improve on, be humble, learn, become a better individual, leader, manager, tactician so the next club is going to get a better version of me.’ I need to learn to flatten the waves. I’m so passionate and so intense and sometimes not everybody can live with that intensity. I don’t want to take that away from my game because that’s me, that’s what improves players.”

He’s always been in football. When Gary, his father, was assistant to John Beck at Cambridge United in the early 90s, Johnson would listen to Beck’s talks, even hiding in the skip so he could hear the half-time fireworks. “Watching what went on as a young lad hardened me to the professional game because it was lively and I wanted to be a part of it. It was aggressive, old school, when men were men, squaring up.

“I remember seeing John Beck nearly electrocute himself because he’d heard Burnley like to play a ghetto-blaster in the changing room before the game so he tried to take the plug socket off and nearly bloody electrocuted himself. I remember they made out there’d been a flood but [they’d poured] an inch of water so the opposition couldn’t put their feet down in the dressing room. Attention to detail!”

As a player he absorbed even more. “The first huge shock to me tactically was playing against Brendan Rodgers’s Swansea [at Ashton Gate on February 1, 2011]. They were so well organised in possession. I was everywhere the ball had just been. I thought this is ridiculous. I can’t get near Leon Britton, who three months before I’d absolutely destroyed in a game against Sheffield United. He managed about 16 touches then he goes into Rodgers’s Swansea and has 160 passes against me and completely dictates the game. From that point I was hooked on the tactical side and positional psychology. All the top teams have this positional psychology that drains the opponent from their game very, very quickly. Marcelo Bielsa and Pep Guardiola are masters of positional psychology.”

After losing to Bielsa’s Leeds United on the opening day, “I must have watched that game back about 15 times. I broke down every little section of it and it was good learning. First and foremost, Leeds are a good side with a world-class coach. What that Leeds side has the ability to do was almost most read the minds of the opponents.

“I’ve been very lucky so far to meet some very, very good coaches. Playing against Guardiola and then talking to him for 45 minutes just on football in the office. One of the nice things was he grilled me as much as I grilled him about tactics, formations why we’d done this against them. He was looking obviously from a Man City point of view to say, ‘Right, well what did they recognise and how am I going to then combat that next time.’ He’s relentless in the pursuit of excellence.”

It is a case of marginal gains. Johnson held communication weeks at Bristol City, bringing in speakers. “Ian Wright walks in and Korey Smith’s eyes light up and suddenly starts thinking about goals because when he was six years old Ian Wright was his favourite player. I was a kid at Arsenal when Wrighty was there. I remember he always said to people when leaving, ‘I’ll see you on the near post.’ That’s subliminal influence; if you’re the wide man you know where he will be, that’s genius.

“We had the Red Arrows in. The theme was communication. If you’re Arrow 1 and Arrow 2 is six inches out you’re dead.” He invited Leon Rolle, DJ Locksmith from Rudimental, to talk about his journey. “A lot of the lads followed him on my Instagram. He has an inspiring story, come from nothing, unbelievable character, driven, great success and that story is really important.” And he’s stayed driven.

“We had one player who came from nothing, didn’t have a pot to piss in, all of a sudden nearly becomes a millionaire in terms of his contract so he’s going to change. It’s our job to help him develop as a human as well as a football player. You’ve got entourages around players. You have to be head coach, mentor, brother, uncle, agent, advisor and parent all in one.”

Johnson is still only 39, still developing and still very ambitious. “Day three, I was super-excited because ‘What’s next?’ I’ve been approached, mainly from abroad, which shows the exposure now of the Championship. I definitely wouldn’t rule a foreign club out. My heart is in coaching in the Championship or as high as I can in England. The Championship is the best league in the world: varied styles, varied budgets, varied tactics but such a big prize at the end of it.

“Expectation is ridiculous for everybody. It’s relentless as a manager. A lot of managers’ wives and families will tell you they tend to get what’s left of you. There is a guilt that comes attached with that but there’s also a guilt when you spend too much time with the family or friends and not doing your job. Planning is important.”

He loves working with players, improving them. “Tammy Abraham was a joy to work with,” Johnson recalls of when the Chelsea forward scored 26 goals on loan in 2016-17. “Chelsea have done well with those young players in terms of people as characters. Tammy was an honour. He’s a really good lad, really good student, takes things in and therefore enables you to be able to improve him. He had a deep-rooted confidence in his ability, and now he’s played for England.

“I’m also proud to be a part of [French teenager Han-Noah] Massengo’s journey, because he’s up there with the best in terms of attitude and character. Without any doubt that kid is going to play in a top-level team. We went over [to Monaco], we pitched to Massengo who knew nothing about Bristol City but instantly fell in love with the club and a dream we’d sold. That project was genius from the football club.”

The club is now looking for a new manager with Johnson’s former assistant, Dean Holden, one of the favourites. “I’ve got no say in who my ex-girlfriend goes out with next,” Johnson says with a smile. “Dean’s a good lad. He was honest in his work with me and for me. If he gets it, good luck to him.” And as for Johnson himself? “I honestly don’t feel I need time out. I’m ready.”

 

Apologies that the formatting has gone astray in places.  There are pop up ads in the original article that affect the copying and pasting.

My comment fwiw.  If only Lee Johnson was as good at coaching football teams as he his at PR, we really would have reached a the Premier League and beyond.

 

[ReggyRed]

I’d happily have him back instead of the unqualified chap we are about to appoint

[ChippenhamRed]

I thought it was a good read, an interesting interview with a decent bloke who did his best for a club he clearly loves, and I didn’t see much BS at all.

[IAmNick]

1 minute ago, ChippenhamRed said:

I thought it was a good read, an interesting interview with a decent bloke who did his best for a club he clearly loves, and I didn’t see much BS at all.

I agree, I was prepared for much worse.

Yeah he talked himself up but who wouldn't in that situation? I thought he was fair in what he said and it reflected on the club well which he didn't have to do.

[Malago]

2 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

I thought it was a good read, an interesting interview with a decent bloke who did his best for a club he clearly loves, and I didn’t see much BS at all.

I agree to a certain extent.  I put the BS warning in the title because there will be many on the forum who are less disposed to look on any LJ comment with much sympathy.

[SuperDziek]

Good interview. Can’t see any BS in there.  We all wanted Johnson to succeed and it was a shame he fell short. Good luck to him in the future - he’ll be a better manager for his time here. 

[Northern Red]

This'll be in tomorrow's printed edition.

[054123]

10 minutes ago, Malago said:

Leeds are a good side with a world-class coach.

Well said Lee.

Its not rocket science.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Seemed alright I thought. A bit of self promotion perhaps.

I would come back at him on one or two points. He said watched that Leeds game back multiple times. 

Good tactical lesson I thought. A key aspect IMO was Leeds largely controlled the centre after about 20-25 mins. I found it online and watched it back. Several times IIRC.

Leeds of course played with THREE true CMs that day. Forshaw-Phillips-Klich.

Also notable that Harrison and especially Hernandez able to drift in and out ie wide and centre, interchange. 

Felt that was a key tactical lesson that day, oney which he saw fit not to really try here, either before or after.

[chinapig]

For what it's worth, I believe you can work too hard and be too emotionally involved in a job. You can end up physically and emotionally exhausted and unable to be objective or think clearly.

My guess is that what happened to LJ over time. Perhaps he needs to relax and dial down the intensity.

[harvey54]

You have to think that if he tried to use the methods and stuff that he learnt then the players can't be very bright. He's articulate and intelligent. Perhaps that was too much for our players 

[Bat Fastard]

I believe we have lost a good one in Lee Johnson. I would be happy to see him regroup and come back to us in a few years time. He clearly loves the club and the city and that counts for a lot in these money driven times.  

[Kingswoodactor]

He's got interest from abroad apparently. FC Midtjylland? 

[Roe]

Ah **** it.  Just get him back already.

[Northern Red]

He mentions Morrell and Walsh, who he never played...

[BCFCGav]

Good read that. His passion for the club and football does shine. I think he'll be really successful.

[TedsHeadIs Red]

4 minutes ago, chinapig said:

For what it's worth, I believe you can work too hard and be too emotionally involved in a job. You can end up physically and emotionally exhausted and unable to be objective or think clearly.

My guess is that what happened to LJ over time. Perhaps he needs to relax and dial down the intensity.

That’s a very good point. He started to over think it. It’s a shame because he really loved the club. He could come good in the future.

[Major Isewater]

15 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

I thought it was a good read, an interesting interview with a decent bloke who did his best for a club he clearly loves, and I didn’t see much BS at all.

There were the little gems ‘ Pep grilled me ‘  

He implied that Tammy’s success was down to his coaching...

 

Still I don’t doubt for one minute that he didn’t give his all for the club and wish him all the best , the little bluffer . 
 

 

[Red Army 75]

Thanks for posting. Wish LJ every success in the future. 

[Kingswoodactor]

1 minute ago, Northern Red said:

He mentions Morrell and Walsh, who he never played...

Yeah that irked me somewhat reading that part. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

22 minutes ago, harvey54 said:

You have to think that if he tried to use the methods and stuff that he learnt then the players can't be very bright. He's articulate and intelligent. Perhaps that was too much for our players 

What methods? His formations and setups towards the end, perhaps longer, made little sense. 

If you were an opposition manager, you knew that you could outnumber us in CM or out think us and problems can tend to stem from there.

His style wasn't basic but it wasn't exactly sophisticated or complex, especially in the latter days.

[Phileas Fogg]

That was a good read. He does come over as being very intense though. I bet that could be a bit tricky to deal with for his players and coaching colleagues.

[Riaz]

Where’s the BS??

[YGBjammy]

Good interview, obviously deeply emotionally involved which can be both good and bad. You can tell he thinks a lot of himself though, but you probably have to in his line of work.

Also wtf was the line about Morrell and Walsh?! 

Was good to hear him confident about HNM as well, would love to know more about how they sold Bristol City to a kid in Monaco.

[lenred]

Bit of revisionism regards Walsh and Morrell and some of the usual spiel in there, but comes across fairly well.  Shame he didn’t speak with a bit more heart and passion and cut out the bull when he was manager. Maybe he is one who comes across as better in print. 

[mozo]

“It’s not a frustration because you understand the remit of the job. I bought into the sustainability project to put the club in a better position than it once was. But you want to build momentum. What I really wanted to do was give the people what they wanted and that was top-level football.

a quote that possibly tells us summat about the current gaffer debacle.

 

Also great to huge praise for Massengo. 

[chinapig]

6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

What methods his formations and setups towards the end, perhaps longer, made little sense. 

If you were an opposition manager, you knew that you could outnumber us in CM or out think us and problems can tend to stem from there.

Yes, he seemed to absolutely refuse to acknowledge that we were outnumbered, and outmuscled, in midfield.

If all coaches have their blind spots that was his.

[And Its Smith]

Good read and little BS.  Would welcome him back here one day. Seems a really nice guy.  

[Prinny]

It's nice words, go and prove it. Go and show the improvement. If he knew he needed to improve why was he unable to improve?

We played horrendous football, created 1 shot on target a game (if that) all with a squad (that Mark Ashton interference or not) he was involved with the signings of every single member. Then he was replaced by his assistant who instantly made the team look better. If he was so attention to detail focused, if he watched all the games that much, then there's no way someone sane could continuously pick Callum O'Dowda that much. As a midfield player, interested in tactics, talking with Guardiola, studying Bielsa, we were consistently unable to create chances, consistently out of possession.

He's delusional, and that's the fundamental problem with him. His entire self structure is wrong, that's why he thinks he's fine and ready to go again with a few minor tweeks. We've all been that, or seen that. Unwilling to recognise problems, unwilling to change. The first step is always admitting you have a problem right.

If he's crying one day, and ready to go straight back in the next day. He's not ready.

(Of course this is me a fan, with a take, on a guy I don't know, as an amateur. Self aware of this, but football forum and all.)

[luke_bristol]

Didn’t see much bs, seems very fair. I really hope he does well in the future.