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I'm starting this thread as it must be the main reason driving the delay, the problems, and ultimately the reason if Holden is appointed.

Of course, this has been mentioned many times by numerous posters, but is quickly overlooked on other threads in the pursuit of outrage.

It's such a huge situation with financial ramifications that are almost impossible to predict, that it makes the decision to appoint DH (if this happens) entirely understandable.  I feel we need to cut the club some serious sack as Holden may be the ideal man to steer the club through these turbulent, uncertain times - and provided we don't face relegation, we will be free to appoint someone with serious clout or intention once the footballing landscape has returned to normal.  This may not be until another 12 months or perhaps much longer, we have no idea.

So, just how much is the global virus affecting this decision and how much will it continue to disrupt and transform the game we all love?

We can't blame the club or accuse them of a lack of ambition if this managerial appointment acts to ensure the club is stable during the next year or so.

This is just my opinion on the matter, how many of you agree?

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Just now, reddogkev said:

I'm starting this thread as it must be the main reason driving the delay, the problems, and ultimately the reason if Holden is appointed.

Of course, this has been mentioned many times by numerous posters, but is quickly overlooked on other threads in the pursuit of outrage.

It's such a huge situation with financial ramifications that are almost impossible to predict, that it makes the decision to appoint DH (if this happens) entirely understandable.  I feel we need to cut the club some serious sack as Holden may be the ideal man to steer the club through these turbulent, uncertain times - and provided we don't face relegation, we will be free to appoint someone with serious clout or intention once the footballing landscape has returned to normal.  This may not be until another 12 months or perhaps much longer, we have no idea.

So, just how much is the global virus affecting this decision and how much will it continue to disrupt and transform the game we all love?

We can't blame the club or accuse them of a lack of ambition if this managerial appointment acts to ensure the club is stable during the next year or so.

This is just my opinion on the matter, how many of you agree?

So the fact the the owner stated, PL ASAP, LJ had to go as he failed etc etc in the MIDDLE of the pandemic blows your argument apart.

 

Unless you are suggesting that our owner had not heard of Covid at that point......

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No Kev. It’s been said so many times, if it was because of Covid - they’d have appointed Holden immediately and communicated that reason.

We absolutely would not have sounded out the idea of Gerrard or interviewed Chris Hughton (who apparently wants almost double LJ’s salary).

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At last, the penny is finally beginning to sink in for some of you 😁

I’ve suggested this issue as the cause of the delay on a number of threads but it seemed to get overlooked by many. 

Glad you’ve given it its own thread as it might just make a few more to accept and calm down a bit. 

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5 minutes ago, Red DNA said:

At last, the penny is finally beginning to sink in for some of you 😁

I’ve suggested this issue as the cause of the delay on a number of threads but it seemed to get overlooked by many. 

Glad you’ve given it its own thread as it might just make a few more to accept and calm down a bit. 

It gets overlooked because surely intelligent men like our owner and Ashton would not make the comments they did during the outbreak 

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20 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

No Kev. It’s been said so many times, if it was because of Covid - they’d have appointed Holden immediately and communicated that reason.

We absolutely would not have sounded out the idea of Gerrard or interviewed Chris Hughton (who apparently wants almost double LJ’s salary).

This. It’s absolutely bollox - if covid was the issue appoint Holden STRAIGHT AWAY just like Bournemouth have done with appointing Howe’s assistant. 
No City give it the big’un, we have had interest from around the world, are interviewing this bloke and that bloke have a 5 interview shortlist bla bla bla. 

It has been said more eloquently than me on other threads but it is obvious what has happened, MA and the father and son duo think they have the perfect set up here, a fantastic environment  that quality coaches will jump at the chance to work in. Reality check is we clearly don’t , nobody wants in and this is what we are left with. DH and scrambling around seemingly to get some sort of Director of football in to soften the blow.

Sorry but they aren’t pulling the wool over most of the fanbase eyes this time.. Lansdown has underestimated the fanbase, i feel we have come a long way since the Millen and Tinnion appointments - expectations are too high now and that has been down to the chairman constantly bleating on about wanting Premiership football.. this is his own doing and he only has himself to blame. People aren’t going to roll over and accept the cheap option. We want topflight football and we are constantly being told that is the aim. Its an age old saying but honesty is the best policy...

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43 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

I'm starting this thread as it must be the main reason driving the delay, the problems, and ultimately the reason if Holden is appointed.

Of course, this has been mentioned many times by numerous posters, but is quickly overlooked on other threads in the pursuit of outrage.

It's such a huge situation with financial ramifications that are almost impossible to predict, that it makes the decision to appoint DH (if this happens) entirely understandable.  I feel we need to cut the club some serious sack as Holden may be the ideal man to steer the club through these turbulent, uncertain times - and provided we don't face relegation, we will be free to appoint someone with serious clout or intention once the footballing landscape has returned to normal.  This may not be until another 12 months or perhaps much longer, we have no idea.

So, just how much is the global virus affecting this decision and how much will it continue to disrupt and transform the game we all love?

We can't blame the club or accuse them of a lack of ambition if this managerial appointment acts to ensure the club is stable during the next year or so.

This is just my opinion on the matter, how many of you agree?

With the lack of any match day revenue for the foreseeable future then yes I think your right. Think I read the other day and yes this is a totally different level to us but with an empty stadium Man Utd lose £5m in revenue every game... say they have 30 games including cups a season that is £150m

Our impact is obviously much less but then we don’t have the luxury of their reserves.

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36 minutes ago, bris red said:

This. It’s absolutely bollox - if covid was the issue appoint Holden STRAIGHT AWAY just like Bournemouth have done with appointing Howe’s assistant. 
No City give it the big’un, we have had interest from around the world, are interviewing this bloke and that bloke have a 5 interview shortlist bla bla bla. 

It has been said more eloquently than me on other threads but it is obvious what has happened, MA and the father and son duo think they have the perfect set up here, a fantastic environment  that quality coaches will jump at the chance to work in. Reality check is we clearly don’t , nobody wants in and this is what we are left with. DH and scrambling around seemingly to get some sort of Director of football in to soften the blow.

Sorry but they aren’t pulling the wool over most of the fanbase eyes this time.. Lansdown has underestimated the fanbase, i feel we have come a long way since the Millen and Tinnion appointments - expectations are too high now and that has been down to the chairman constantly bleating on about wanting Premiership football.. this is his own doing and he only has himself to blame. People aren’t going to roll over and accept the cheap option. We want topflight football and we are constantly being told that is the aim. Its an age old saying but honesty is the best policy...

Johnson done well in his four years and left you nicely placed on and off the pitch which is strange why Lansdown didn't deliver a quality manager to take you forward next season instead of leaving fans nervous and  pessimistic 

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1 hour ago, bris red said:

This. It’s absolutely bollox - if covid was the issue appoint Holden STRAIGHT AWAY just like Bournemouth have done with appointing Howe’s assistant. 
No City give it the big’un, we have had interest from around the world, are interviewing this bloke and that bloke have a 5 interview shortlist bla bla bla. 

It has been said more eloquently than me on other threads but it is obvious what has happened, MA and the father and son duo think they have the perfect set up here, a fantastic environment  that quality coaches will jump at the chance to work in. Reality check is we clearly don’t , nobody wants in and this is what we are left with. DH and scrambling around seemingly to get some sort of Director of football in to soften the blow.

Sorry but they aren’t pulling the wool over most of the fanbase eyes this time.. Lansdown has underestimated the fanbase, i feel we have come a long way since the Millen and Tinnion appointments - expectations are too high now and that has been down to the chairman constantly bleating on about wanting Premiership football.. this is his own doing and he only has himself to blame. People aren’t going to roll over and accept the cheap option. We want topflight football and we are constantly being told that is the aim. Its an age old saying but honesty is the best policy...

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1 hour ago, reddogkev said:

I'm starting this thread as it must be the main reason driving the delay, the problems, and ultimately the reason if Holden is appointed.

Of course, this has been mentioned many times by numerous posters, but is quickly overlooked on other threads in the pursuit of outrage.

It's such a huge situation with financial ramifications that are almost impossible to predict, that it makes the decision to appoint DH (if this happens) entirely understandable.  I feel we need to cut the club some serious sack as Holden may be the ideal man to steer the club through these turbulent, uncertain times - and provided we don't face relegation, we will be free to appoint someone with serious clout or intention once the footballing landscape has returned to normal.  This may not be until another 12 months or perhaps much longer, we have no idea.

So, just how much is the global virus affecting this decision and how much will it continue to disrupt and transform the game we all love?

We can't blame the club or accuse them of a lack of ambition if this managerial appointment acts to ensure the club is stable during the next year or so.

This is just my opinion on the matter, how many of you agree?

Utter bollocks 

LJ sacked during the pandemic 

SL’s interview of “next level” “prem football ASAP etc etc . During the pandemic

oh and Lansdown is a financial expert for big business. He would know more than anyone of the impacts of covid , but still made those comments. 

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37 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Utter bollocks 

LJ sacked during the pandemic 

SL’s interview of “next level” “prem football ASAP etc etc . During the pandemic

oh and Lansdown is a financial expert for big business. He would know more than anyone of the impacts of covid , but still made those comments. 

How about Ashton's claim during April about 'a season of austerity'.

How do we know that we haven't- Covid related or not- fallen between £15m-£39m FFP losses in the 3 years to May 2020?

Things may well be relaxed but IF they fall into that range, then a club has to submit by the end of March, projected FFP losses for the following two seasons.  The deadlines for these projections maybe moved due to Covid but any club with Adjusted 3 year losses of £15-39m in the 3 years to the existing season- 2020- has to submit for the following two as well, some kind of Projections. You come on the EFL's radar in that scenario, basically.

We are in 'T' or were when Projected accounts were submitted- if we had lost higher than £15m projected to May 2020 but lower than £39m, we would have had to submit for T + 1 and T +2. Not just us but a great many clubs.

Maybe appointing Hughton would put those calculations into jeopardy if not this coming season then certainly in 2021-22, not even for his wages but for a prospective wage/transfer budget he might have hoped/hope for.

I believe there is a reasonable chance that our 3 year adjusted losses to 2020 are somewhere between £15-39m. Like the bulk of clubs at this level in fact. Perhaps the demands of Hughton or an equivalent candidate would put us in jeopardy in this respect in these times?

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

How about Ashton's claim during April about 'a season of austerity'.

How do we know that we haven't- Covid related or not- fallen between £15m-£39m FFP losses in the 3 years to May 2020?

Things may well be relaxed but IF they fall into that range, then a club has to submit by the end of March, projected FFP losses for the following two seasons.  The deadlines for these projections maybe moved due to Covid but any club with Adjusted 3 year losses of £15-39m in the 3 years to the existing season- 2020- has to submit for the following two as well, some kind of Projections. You come on the EFL's radar in that scenario, basically.

We are in 'T' or were when Projected accounts were submitted- if we had lost higher than £15m projected to May 2020 but lower than £39m, we would have had to submit for T + 1 and T +2. Not just us but a great many clubs.

Maybe appointing Hughton would put those calculations into jeopardy if not this coming season then certainly in 2021-22, not even for his wages but for a prospective wage/transfer budget he might have hoped/hope for.

I believe there is a reasonable chance that our 3 year adjusted losses to 2020 are somewhere between £15-39m. Like the bulk of clubs at this level in fact. Perhaps the demands of Hughton or an equivalent candidate would put us in jeopardy in this respect in these times?

Players generally earn more than managers, or certainly close to. We’ve had more than enough players in the last season or 2, or 3 actually, who don’t contribute anywhere near enough to warrant what they’ve been paid....to just sit on the bench or even in the stands.
 

We’ve got a bloated squad in a few positions. Let one or two go, or instead of signing players like Williams & Benkovic, go with a Taylor Moore.

I fail to believe someone like Hughton or Cook not coming in is down to finance. It’s more likely down to control. 

How have Birmingham been able to appoint Karanka? How have Middlesbrough been able to appoint Warnock? What did it cost to sack Lee Johnson and Jamie McCallister? Why did it only take Bournemouth 3 days to appoint Eddie Howe’s assistant?

Edit: SL would also have been well aware of both our FFP situation and the potential impact of COVID-19 before he appeared on Talksport and gave his big speech. 

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2 hours ago, Kibs said:

Players generally earn more than managers, or certainly close to. We’ve had more than enough players in the last season or 2, or 3 actually, who don’t contribute anywhere near enough to warrant what they’ve been paid....to just sit on the bench or even in the stands.
 

We’ve got a bloated squad in a few positions. Let one or two go, or instead of signing players like Williams & Benkovic, go with a Taylor Moore.

I fail to believe someone like Hughton or Cook not coming in is down to finance. It’s more likely down to control. 

How have Birmingham been able to appoint Karanka? How have Middlesbrough been able to appoint Warnock? What did it cost to sack Lee Johnson and Jamie McCallister? Why did it only take Bournemouth 3 days to appoint Eddie Howe’s assistant?

Edit: SL would also have been well aware of both our FFP situation and the potential impact of COVID-19 before he appeared on Talksport and gave his big speech. 

Fair.

Our squad does feel too big, that said I was quite happy with loaning Benkovic.

Whether we got the best out of him, well under LJ we certainly didn't- get the point you're making however. Loaning Moore out felt harsh and unnecessary.

Williams and some others can go, I wonder how the market might look though, easy to identify surplus players, less so save for those out of contract to find takers!

Potentially yes, or could be a mixture of control and finance. Problem is if you give a manager too much control it can lead to issues on the financial side!

Could it be that certain managers may have to adapt their expectations at this level or find their work drying up moving forward.. due to a mix of FFP, Covid and new club led business models?

I don't think Middlesbrough will be spending a great amount,Birmingham have downsized and the Bellingham, Adams, Jota, Vassell, Spanish player mix of profit and savings gives him a little. Some older costlier players saw their contracts expiring too.

The LJ and McAllister severance pay will certainly form part of our costs. Bournemouth fans are less than happy about that I dare say!

He did. Which makes Ashton's statement in April about austerity all the odder. The mixed messages don't fill me with confidence!

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4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Fair.

Our squad does feel too big, that said I was quite happy with loaning Benkovic.

Whether we got the best out of him, well under LJ we certainly didn't- get the point you're making however. Loaning Moore out felt harsh and unnecessary.

Williams and some others can go, I wonder how the market might look though, easy to identify surplus players, less so save for those out of contract to find takers!

Potentially yes, or could be a mixture of control and finance. Problem is if you give a manager too much control it can lead to issues on the financial side!

Could it be that certain managers may have to adapt their expectations at this level or find their work drying up moving forward.. due to a mix of FFP, Covid and new club led business models?

I don't think Middlesbrough will be spending a great amount,Birmingham have downsized and the Bellingham, Adams, Jota, Vassell, Spanish player mix of profit and savings gives him a little. Some older costlier players saw their contracts expiring too.

The LJ and McCallister severance pay will certainly form part of our costs. Bournemouth fans are less than happy about that I dare say!

He did. Which makes Ashton's statement in April about austerity all the odder. The mixed messages don't fill me with confidence!

Let’s assume that Macca hasn’t been sacked for any misdemeanour, then it wouldn’t surprise me if we continued paying them until the end of their contract or until they find other jobs.  Paying off say 3 years in one go, is gonna hit 20/21s accounts more than continuing to pay them.

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4 hours ago, Dredd said:

Maybe. I wouldn’t discount it. 
 

maybe COVID is the excuse to promote within. Who knows. 

It’s got to be the only excuse they can hope to hang onto for this total balls up, so we can bet they’ll use it.

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We're talking about City, so everything can happen. 🙃

Seriously...the OP's conclusion seems the most logical one.

I wouldn't rule out the possibility of managers making higher-than-expected requests to the club and pushing MA & co. to give up on those targets. Add it to the financial impact of losses,  limited attendances and similar problems...and this U-turn makes sense. The lenght of the selection process is annoying but could be partially explained by these things.

That's why I would be disappointed and probably a bit worried (see the part ''provided we don't face relegation'') about it but not angry.

 

 

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15 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

Utter bollocks 

LJ sacked during the pandemic 

SL’s interview of “next level” “prem football ASAP etc etc . During the pandemic

oh and Lansdown is a financial expert for big business. He would know more than anyone of the impacts of covid , but still made those comments. 

It's not really bollocks though is it, not even close to utter bollocks.  It makes complete pragmatic sense - which granted is dull and uninspiring.

Being a financial expert doesn't mean you can forecast something that has never happened before with any degree of confidence or expectation of accuracy.  I can understand the comments made at the time, and then SL and the board realising over the coming weeks that the landscape had changed massively and the club has had to act accordingly.

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6 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

It's not really bollocks though is it, not even close to utter bollocks.  It makes complete pragmatic sense - which granted is dull and uninspiring.

Being a financial expert doesn't mean you can forecast something that has never happened before with any degree of confidence or expectation of accuracy.  I can understand the comments made at the time, and then SL and the board realising over the coming weeks that the landscape had changed massively and the club has had to act accordingly.

It wasn’t that long ago that Ashton and Lansdown made the comments they did. Not a huge amount has changed re: Covid apart from a projected resuming of spectators at sport being pushed back slightly. That’s not enough to do an about face on all of our budgeting I don’t think.

It’s an incredibly convenient excuse for the club, but it doesn’t add up.

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If our manager was only doing an average job and not looking like he'd be able to gain promotion and you're saying let's settle for being average for a bit and not think about promotion, then why sack him?!

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8 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

It's not really bollocks though is it, not even close to utter bollocks.  It makes complete pragmatic sense - which granted is dull and uninspiring.

Being a financial expert doesn't mean you can forecast something that has never happened before with any degree of confidence or expectation of accuracy.  I can understand the comments made at the time, and then SL and the board realising over the coming weeks that the landscape had changed massively and the club has had to act accordingly.

No, it is utter bollocks. If anything the outlook is brighter than it would of been back then . You’re just finding excuses to justify a terrible decision by a owner , that no matter how brilliant he is in a business sense . Hasn’t got a  clue when it comes to  football. He’s not a football person , he’s admitted it himself . 

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2 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

No, it is utter bollocks. If anything the outlook is brighter than it would of been back then . You’re just finding excuses to justify a terrible decision by a owner , that no matter how brilliant he is in a business sense . Hasn’t got a  clue when it comes to  football. He’s not a football person , he’s admitted it himself . 

A 'vision' of self sustainability (Good Luck with that at this Level Steve)

Find and get good football people to advise you on the football decisions Mr L ........................... and listen to them

Take a Graham Souness or similar out for dinner and broach a consultancy role

 

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17 hours ago, reddogkev said:

I'm starting this thread as it must be the main reason driving the delay, the problems, and ultimately the reason if Holden is appointed.

Of course, this has been mentioned many times by numerous posters, but is quickly overlooked on other threads in the pursuit of outrage.

It's such a huge situation with financial ramifications that are almost impossible to predict, that it makes the decision to appoint DH (if this happens) entirely understandable.  I feel we need to cut the club some serious sack as Holden may be the ideal man to steer the club through these turbulent, uncertain times - and provided we don't face relegation, we will be free to appoint someone with serious clout or intention once the footballing landscape has returned to normal.  This may not be until another 12 months or perhaps much longer, we have no idea.

So, just how much is the global virus affecting this decision and how much will it continue to disrupt and transform the game we all love?

We can't blame the club or accuse them of a lack of ambition if this managerial appointment acts to ensure the club is stable during the next year or so.

This is just my opinion on the matter, how many of you agree?

That's my thought process as well, but can see while others are shouting it down. I have to say that starting to make sense of it all is making my brain hurt 🤔

One thing is for sure though, the club have handled the whole situation very poorly and the fans have been hoodwinked.

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17 hours ago, reddogkev said:

I'm starting this thread as it must be the main reason driving the delay, the problems, and ultimately the reason if Holden is appointed.

Of course, this has been mentioned many times by numerous posters, but is quickly overlooked on other threads in the pursuit of outrage.

It's such a huge situation with financial ramifications that are almost impossible to predict, that it makes the decision to appoint DH (if this happens) entirely understandable.  I feel we need to cut the club some serious sack as Holden may be the ideal man to steer the club through these turbulent, uncertain times - and provided we don't face relegation, we will be free to appoint someone with serious clout or intention once the footballing landscape has returned to normal.  This may not be until another 12 months or perhaps much longer, we have no idea.

So, just how much is the global virus affecting this decision and how much will it continue to disrupt and transform the game we all love?

We can't blame the club or accuse them of a lack of ambition if this managerial appointment acts to ensure the club is stable during the next year or so.

This is just my opinion on the matter, how many of you agree?

Some serious SACK as Holden may be the ideal man, blimey give the bloke a chance!!

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1 hour ago, steviestevieneville said:

No, it is utter bollocks. If anything the outlook is brighter than it would of been back then . You’re just finding excuses to justify a terrible decision by a owner , that no matter how brilliant he is in a business sense . Hasn’t got a  clue when it comes to  football. He’s not a football person , he’s admitted it himself . 

No chance, do you really believe that if everything was normal in the world DH would be the new manager / coach of City?

That's utter bollocks if you ask me.

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14 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

No chance, do you really believe that if everything was normal in the world DH would be the new manager / coach of City?

That's utter bollocks if you ask me.

Jesus *******  Christ 😂😂😂😂 yes I do. Look at the history of Lansdown appointing managers. Take cotts out of the argument because it is well known it was Kieth dawe  who made that call and possibly why he stepped down after he left.

tinnion (failure )

Coppell (failure ) SL sticking his nose in 

GJ (success) 

millen (failure) 

mcinness (failure) 

SOD (failure)

LJ (failure) 

so yes, there’s evidence he would of appointed Holden . You’re talking out your balloon knot , again 

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Nothing to do with Covid. 

The difference in salary wouldn’t be as significant as people think. 

They have appointed him because they think he’s the best man for the job. 

Nothing to do with him being “cheap”

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