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Korey Smith


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1 hour ago, And Its Smith said:

What happens is I make a statement on OTIB and get aubergines and stick. Time passes and generally I’m proved correct. I then mention that the stick was unjustified and get more stick! 

Was a lone voice in saying the Wells signing wouldn’t work out as well. Gave reasons why but was a still given loads of stick as posted among a load of people loving the signing. Most would say that signing hasn’t worked out for reasons I said it wouldn’t 

You say I’m my own biggest fan which isn’t true, there are many posters I respect. You are actually one of them....shame it’s not mutual! What I can’t stand is the posters who dish out stick and then go don’t like it when you shine a light on it six months later. 

A blatant lie. The aubergine is no longer available  :laugh:

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At the time considering his availability, the fact we were looking for a “breathe of fresh air” approach and looking to push on, I too would’ve let him go (albeit recognising his service properly). I genuinely believed that we were going to have a real go at it and with that being the case, Korey’s time with us had come to an end. What I didn’t take into account was that we’d appoint the number 2 of our previous manager - accepting a midtable/bottom half finish. Naive I know. 

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6 minutes ago, redsocks said:

How do we know William's is any good.were still waiting to see him.still always next season.


And the better question 

Did we need to offload KS because we were bringing Williams in 

 

People can say what they like about KS , but freebie KS is regularly appearing, and playing very well,  for Swansea , whilst our £4m ball juggler (Who Id suggest earns more than KS) can’t get a starting spot there

A good pro , still only 29 , and one who Cooper has already complimented about his leadership


Not sure that we were that blessed with tried and trusted to not even offer him a contract

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39 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:


And the better question 

Did we need to offload KS because we were bringing Williams in 

 

People can say what they like about KS , but freebie KS is regularly appearing, and playing very well,  for Swansea , whilst our £4m ball juggler (Who Id suggest earns more than KS) can’t get a starting spot there

A good pro , still only 29 , and one who Cooper has already complimented about his leadership


Not sure that we were that blessed with tried and trusted to not even offer him a contract

Sadly he didn't- and I've no problem with Korey- but sadly he wasn't able to regularly appear for us in 2018/19 and to some extent, 2019/20.

Would he have been fit for 21 out of 23 this season with us? We'll never know but with our record...?

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3 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

The irony of your post  ........ brilliant



 

Korey Smith more than proven in Championship

Walsh not and now a permanent sick note, and likely to dissapear into the mist come June 

Williams , to some degree , but now a permannent sick note  (The number on here who predict what a difference Williams will make , he might do - but Id Hazzard a guess that most wont have seen him more than 2 or 3 times at most)

May you explain how someone is a permanent sick note ? 

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2 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:


And the better question 

Did we need to offload KS because we were bringing Williams in 

 

People can say what they like about KS , but freebie KS is regularly appearing, and playing very well,  for Swansea , whilst our £4m ball juggler (Who Id suggest earns more than KS) can’t get a starting spot there

A good pro , still only 29 , and one who Cooper has already complimented about his leadership


Not sure that we were that blessed with tried and trusted to not even offer him a contract

Wasn't Smith crocked for large chunks over the last few years....made no sense to give him a new deal with numbers we had in midfield.

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On 03/01/2021 at 14:04, ciderwithtommy said:

Whether it was obvious or not is a pointless debate, it was the wrong decision, and clearly so.  I was surprised and disappointed at the time, firstly by how terribly it was handled, and secondly that he was released on footballing reasons. That logic has now been proven to be wrong. 
 

people bringing up injury stats, again completely missing the point, he is fit and an ever present this season (or close to).

 

If it was 'the wrong decision and clearly so' then that isn't you saying it's a 'pointless debate'. It's you continuing the debate by saying it was indeed obvious - just using different words to do so.

Midfield was our problem for ages. Remains so. And Korey was often part of that (albeit absent a lot). 

I liked him a lot as a player. But sometimes its just not working and player and club need to go in different direction. I just don't think its 'obvious' a mistake was made. (Though if stories of the way it was handled are true then that is scandalous after everything he has done with club. Bi

Really happy for Korey that he is doing well because he's definitely good player and always seemed stand up man. But nothing to say he'd be doing as well if he'd stayed here. Who knows? But thats sort of my point. 

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25 minutes ago, the1stknowle said:

If it was 'the wrong decision and clearly so' then that isn't you saying it's a 'pointless debate'. It's you continuing the debate by saying it was indeed obvious - just using different words to do so.

Midfield was our problem for ages. Remains so. And Korey was often part of that (albeit absent a lot). 

I liked him a lot as a player. But sometimes its just not working and player and club need to go in different direction. I just don't think its 'obvious' a mistake was made. (Though if stories of the way it was handled are true then that is scandalous after everything he has done with club. Bi

Really happy for Korey that he is doing well because he's definitely good player and always seemed stand up man. But nothing to say he'd be doing as well if he'd stayed here. Who knows? But thats sort of my point. 

No. I am stating that time has shown it was the wrong decision. Whether it was obvious at the time to the people who made the decision is a pointless conversation, as how can that be ever measured!? 

We would be a better team with him in it at the moment, and his character off the pitch would always be of use. 

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10 minutes ago, ciderwithtommy said:

No. I am stating that time has shown it was the wrong decision. Whether it was obvious at the time to the people who made the decision is a pointless conversation, as how can that be ever measured!? 

We would be a better team with him in it at the moment, and his character off the pitch would always be of use. 

Course we can be sure he'd have had the same availability here?

How it was done was disappointing but he's played nearly as many games in half a season ad he managed here in two full ones!

You think he'd have had a 90% availability here in 2020/21 so far? I'm far from convinced.

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3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Course we can be sure he'd have had the same availability here?

How it was done was disappointing but he's played nearly as many games in half a season ad he managed here in two full ones!

You think he'd have had a 90% availability here in 2020/21 so far? I'm far from convinced.

The only thing I could base my opinion on is what he has done at another club, in our league, playing against the same teams as us. With that in mind the answer would be yes.

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28 minutes ago, ciderwithtommy said:

The only thing I could base my opinion on is what he has done at another club, in our league, playing against the same teams as us. With that in mind the answer would be yes.

You could base your opinion on what he did here, surely? Because that’s all the people that actually made the decision had to go on. 
 

Players leave and blossom. Players also stay put and rot. If de Bruyne or salah had stayed at Chelsea, do they definitely, obviously come good there eventually? 
 

You can’t measure whether it’s obvious now any more than whether it was obvious at the time. So I don’t get the distinction you are trying to make there.
Decisions can only be made at the time they are made so the only interesting conversation is exactly whether it was a clearly wrong decision then.  Not whether it’s wrong in retrospect. 

I just don’t think it’s as clear cut a mistake as you and some others are making out; that’s all. 

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On 03/01/2021 at 16:55, And Its Smith said:

What happens is I make a statement on OTIB and get aubergines and stick. Time passes and generally I’m proved correct. I then mention that the stick was unjustified and get more stick! 

Was a lone voice in saying the Wells signing wouldn’t work out as well. Gave reasons why but was a still given loads of stick as posted among a load of people loving the signing. Most would say that signing hasn’t worked out for reasons I said it wouldn’t 

You say I’m my own biggest fan which isn’t true, there are many posters I respect. You are actually one of them....shame it’s not mutual! What I can’t stand is the posters who dish out stick and then go don’t like it when you shine a light on it six months later. 

Well, some years before you changed your username, we had an epic tête-à-tête when you posted that Olivier Giroud was crap and couldn’t score against decent teams ... oops! He’s France’s 2nd top scorer of all time and he’s overtaken Michel Platini - an all time great - crap players don’t do that ... ???

You wouldn’t have it when I proved you wrong and now you protest about posters who dish out stick but can’t take it back in return?! 

Wahey! Happy New Year! ?

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On 03/01/2021 at 15:41, And Its Smith said:

I’m not just saying it now with hindsight though. Said it at the time with foresight. 

Dont see a problem with reminding people with what was said.  

You don’t see a problem with reminding people what was said?! At the start of last year you dismissed the threat posed by Covid and you said the call to postpone football matches and the season was an overreaction and it wouldn’t happen -  you cited your links to China as evidence .... oops! ?

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10 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Well, some years before you changed your username, we had an epic tête-à-tête when you posted that Olivier Giroud was crap and couldn’t score against decent teams ... oops! He’s France’s 2nd top scorer of all time and he’s overtaken Michel Platini - an all time great - crap players don’t do that ... ???

You wouldn’t have it when I proved you wrong and now you protest about posters who dish out stick but can’t take it back in return?! 

Wahey! Happy New Year! ?

Having a different opinion to him makes you cocky apparently ?

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30 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Well, some years before you changed your username, we had an epic tête-à-tête when you posted that Olivier Giroud was crap and couldn’t score against decent teams ... oops! He’s France’s 2nd top scorer of all time and he’s overtaken Michel Platini - an all time great - crap players don’t do that ... ???

You wouldn’t have it when I proved you wrong and now you protest about posters who dish out stick but can’t take it back in return?! 

Wahey! Happy New Year! ?

I was wrong about Giroud. Can’t win em all! 

22 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

You don’t see a problem with reminding people what was said?! At the start of last year you dismissed the threat posed by Covid and you said the call to postpone football matches and the season was an overreaction and it wouldn’t happen -  you cited your links to China as evidence .... oops! ?

I said the season wouldn’t be cancelled and it wasn’t.  

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3 hours ago, ciderwithtommy said:

The only thing I could base my opinion on is what he has done at another club, in our league, playing against the same teams as us. With that in mind the answer would be yes.

Don't get me wrong, I think a fit Korey is a fine player- he has shown it, but given our record I just am not wholly confident he would be fully fit, or at it- the alternative is he got through his injuries here, paid for and doubtless helped by us all that time- and he's now flourishing and would have anyway.

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9 hours ago, the1stknowle said:

You could base your opinion on what he did here, surely? Because that’s all the people that actually made the decision had to go on. 
 

Players leave and blossom. Players also stay put and rot. If de Bruyne or salah had stayed at Chelsea, do they definitely, obviously come good there eventually? 
 

You can’t measure whether it’s obvious now any more than whether it was obvious at the time. So I don’t get the distinction you are trying to make there.
Decisions can only be made at the time they are made so the only interesting conversation is exactly whether it was a clearly wrong decision then.  Not whether it’s wrong in retrospect. 

I just don’t think it’s as clear cut a mistake as you and some others are making out; that’s all. 

I get the point you are making, but I find it a bit difficult to agree with. Judging the “obviousness” of a decision is so subjective and impossible to decide upon. 
 

using clear facts, I.e. Koreys performances when back at the tail end of the season, his performances this year, and our disastrous attempts to improve our midfield, seems a fair way to say it was a terrible decision, and one which the recruitment teams should be held accountable to. 

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48 minutes ago, ciderwithtommy said:

I get the point you are making, but I find it a bit difficult to agree with. Judging the “obviousness” of a decision is so subjective and impossible to decide upon. 
 

using clear facts, I.e. Koreys performances when back at the tail end of the season, his performances this year, and our disastrous attempts to improve our midfield, seems a fair way to say it was a terrible decision, and one which the recruitment teams should be held accountable to. 

I think the club made the right decision and so do many others on this thread.

Korey has done unexpectedly well fitness wise this season but that was not predictable going on the last 2 seasons and we don't know how long it will last.

What the 'recruitment team' would have been accountable for imo. is giving another contract, mostly out of sentiment, to an aging and injury prone player whose availability over the last 2 seasons did not merit one.

We moved on with Williams being signed as his replacement and obviously couldn't foresee his problems.

Shedding a popular long serving player like Korey is always going to be a wrench for club and fans alike but these decisions have to be made on all the information available at the time, and that means it was the correct one imo.

When SL warned us not get too attached to players this was exactly the sort of scenario he was talking about.

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12 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Where did I say that?  It’s the manner in which it’s dismissed that’s important 

In response to Lew-T on the previous page. You said if people weren’t so cocky when rubbishing your opinion you wouldn’t need to bring it back up 6 months later?

I don’t see how anyone has been ‘cocky’ or dismissive of your opinion on Korey? To me it just seems you can’t accept people having a different opinion to you. You say the way in which it’s dismissed is important yet you are happy to be dismissive of everyone else’s views other than your own. Double standards if you ask me.

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3 hours ago, ciderwithtommy said:

I get the point you are making, but I find it a bit difficult to agree with. Judging the “obviousness” of a decision is so subjective and impossible to decide upon. 
 

using clear facts, I.e. Koreys performances when back at the tail end of the season, his performances this year, and our disastrous attempts to improve our midfield, seems a fair way to say it was a terrible decision, and one which the recruitment teams should be held accountable to. 

Fair enough. For me, if a decision is highly subjective then it can’t be called obvious. Saying something is obvious requires a lot of objectivity rather than subjectivity  

And the people making the decision then didn’t have his performances this season to take into account.  

But can agree to disagree on the general point. 

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As always, easy to judge with the benefit of hindsight. Very few complained when he was released, it seemed the sensible move at the time.

I've been critical of our transfer record recently on another thread, but you've got to say (in terms of "holding the recruitment team accountable") over the last 4 years, of the released or sold players to teams around or below us, not many you'd say were a mistake: 

Ayling and (for now) Korey. Maybe Freeman for some.

Not sure many of you would be clamouring to have the likes of Eisa, Szmodics, Djuric, Tomlin, Magnussen, Matty Taylor, Bailey Wright, Wes Burns, Agard, Mark Little, to name some, back.

 

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1 hour ago, Alessandro said:

As always, easy to judge with the benefit of hindsight. Very few complained when he was released, it seemed the sensible move at the time.

I've been critical of our transfer record recently on another thread, but you've got to say (in terms of "holding the recruitment team accountable") over the last 4 years, of the released or sold players to teams around or below us, not many you'd say were a mistake: 

Ayling and (for now) Korey. Maybe Freeman for some.

Not sure many of you would be clamouring to have the likes of Eisa, Szmodics, Djuric, Tomlin, Magnussen, Matty Taylor, Bailey Wright, Wes Burns, Agard, Mark Little, to name some, back.

 

Putting Korey Smith in the same bracket as the list of players above is no fair comparison. Also, not sure "very few" complained - pretty sure many on here were vocal, and definitely the group I go to games with were surprised. 

Agree that hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I dont subscribe to the idea that this was a sensible move at the time either. 

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