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Can see the outgoing Dave is on about being Bakinson to plymouth as they loved him and as others said, possibly pring although pring could be trial with view to loan.

bakinson hasn’t got anywhere near reckoning for our first team despite promise he has. Shame as I was or still am if I’m weong, hoping he succeeds with us 

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@WolfOfWestStreet

Our midfield maybe less physical and have less height but in the modern game be all and end all? Technique and energy or physical prowess?  

I certainly think that the Championship is moving in that direction too-dont think a big man-little man combo in CM is/would be the way to go, or that and Palmer. Still quite plausible that we get outgunned/outnumbered/outmanouvered.

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Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

@WolfOfWestStreet

Our midfield maybe less physical and have less height but in the modern game be all and end all? Technique and energy or physical prowess?  

I certainly think that the Championship is moving in that direction too-dont think a big man-little man combo in CM is/would be the way to go, or that and Palmer. Still quite plausible that we get outgunned/outnumbered/outmanouvered.

Maybe. 

They're all kids, under 5'9 and I don't really see Palmer as CM. We also don't play a technical passing game either. 

All this talk of no money and releasing a player, who if nothing else is a highly capable and combatative player of championship quality, seems odd. 

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3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

That would be my gut feel too, but Walsh’s heat maps for the season show him to be more varied.

Seems potentially like an ideal candidate to play centrally in front of a midfield 2?

Can break the lines, break from deeper but the versatility can see him move back and forth more readily than say Palmer.

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36 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

No you didn’t. You said you “knew” who the player was but wouldn’t cough it up until after it was announced.

Bollocks to that 

If you know something - let us know. If you know something but feel you have to keep it in confidence then:

KEEP IT IN CONFIDENCE, rather than stroking your own ego

Yes, because one of the first words that comes to mind to describe @Davefevs is "egotistical" 

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25 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Maybe. 

They're all kids, under 5'9 and I don't really see Palmer as CM. We also don't play a technical passing game either. 

All this talk of no money and releasing a player, who if nothing else is a highly capable and combatative player of championship quality, seems odd. 

Palmer definitely no CM. More of a '10'?

I think you'd need two of our CMs perhaps 3. For some games maybe 2 and Paterson. 

To go into it with just two of our genuine CMs, or two and Palmer- that isn't working IMO!

I should add as well, timing of it with the cash as you say. Smith alongside two of the others could've been interesting I think. Bit of experience and yeah when fit, good player.

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3 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Yes, because one of the first words that comes to mind to describe @Davefevs is "egotistical" 

I use to play football with favs and he definitely thought he was Virgil as a CH, so get the ego comment. Seriously though a more honest and straight forward guy you couldn’t meet and he’s just respecting confidentiality. Keep going Fevs as love the posts but sort those graphs out as make no sense!

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8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Palmer definitely no CM. More of a '10'?

I think you'd need two of our CMs perhaps 3. For some games maybe 2 and Paterson. 

To go into it with just two of our genuine CMs, or two and Palmer- that isn't working IMO!

Id try and get rid of Nagy and hopefully bring in a new one. If possible.

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7 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Id try and get rid of Nagy and hopefully bring in a new one. If possible.

Hard to say IMO playing in the shape we often do. Goes for many of our players tbh!

As for Korey. Surprised in some ways but injuries probably stalled him. In this climate though replacing him may not be easy!

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20 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Palmer definitely no CM. More of a '10'?

I think you'd need two of our CMs perhaps 3. For some games maybe 2 and Paterson. 

To go into it with just two of our genuine CMs, or two and Palmer- that isn't working IMO!

How about Palmer P45? 

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22 minutes ago, Shuffle said:

I use to play football with favs and he definitely thought he was Virgil as a CH, so get the ego comment. Seriously though a more honest and straight forward guy you couldn’t meet and he’s just respecting confidentiality. Keep going Fevs as love the posts but sort those graphs out as make no sense!

Yeah, but you meant Virgil from the Thunderbirds more than likely. 😂

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Would be interested to see a 4-4-2 with narrow diamond in midfield.

joe morrell heat map suggests he plays a lot left side of Cm.

walsh plays a lot right side of Cm.

massengo could be utilised as the screen infromt of defence to break up play and stop the ball carriers running straight at the defence.

palmer then would sit at the top of the diamond behind Wells and one other whoever that may be.

leaving a back 4 of Dasilva, moore, kalas and vyner.

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Just now, BOSRed said:

Would be interested to see a 4-4-2 with narrow diamond in midfield.

joe morrell heat map suggests he plays a lot left side of Cm.

walsh plays a lot right side of Cm.

massengo could be utilised as the screen infromt of defence to break up play and stop the ball carriers running straight at the defence.

palmer then would sit at the top of the diamond behind Wells and one other whoever that may be.

leaving a back 4 of Dasilva, moore, kalas and vyner.

Quite exciting and scary at the same time to field that team next season

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1 minute ago, BOSRed said:

Would be interested to see a 4-4-2 with narrow diamond in midfield.

joe morrell heat map suggests he plays a lot left side of Cm.

walsh plays a lot right side of Cm.

massengo could be utilised as the screen infromt of defence to break up play and stop the ball carriers running straight at the defence.

palmer then would sit at the top of the diamond behind Wells and one other whoever that may be.

leaving a back 4 of Dasilva, moore, kalas and vyner.

Ignoring the personnel for a moment, I’ve thought that a 4312 with a narrow 3 could work.  That 3, if one plays deeper becomes a deeper / fat bottomed diamond, if that makes sense.

Either that a 4321.

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Just now, Davefevs said:

Ignoring the personnel for a moment, I’ve thought that a 4312 with a narrow 3 could work.  That 3, if one plays deeper becomes a deeper / fat bottomed diamond, if that makes sense.

Either that a 4321.

Still feel we need a strong, physical player in there somewhere

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2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Hard to say IMO playing in the shape we often do. Goes for many of our players tbh!

As for Korey. Surprised in some ways but injuries probably stalled him. In this climate though replacing him may not be easy!

If Nagy is a quality championship holding midfielder, which he has to become if he is good enough for us, then I think we should be okay. He has to show it.

Massengo was superb in the 352 at the start of the season.

Morrell and Walsh appear to be quality players who should suit that system. They played in a 2 at their clubs on loan.

Vyner is an option if needed. Not sure but maybe Rowe too.

But with the 4 we are talking about, I think 2 of those technical midfielders can work. With 3 behind them giving them extra protection and wing backs too.

We saw Massengo and Nagy perform so well against Luton. They were superb and it really helped having Weimann a bit deeper. Strange how LJ moved him back up top alongside Fam after that.

It's so much about who plays where to support the midfield. A 442 with attacking full backs and with 2 of Nagy, Massengo, Morrell or Walsh I'd say is way too much for whichever 2 we were to go with.

A nice compact 5212 I think gives them a bit of extra support in the extra defender. And with the floating midfielder dropping back too like Palmer likes to if it's him. 

If small midfield combinations don't work then we would not see examples of it working.

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43 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Yes, because one of the first words that comes to mind to describe @Davefevs is "egotistical" 

If you are in the know - and this includes you - don’t feed the frenzy that goes on on this forum unless you cough it all up. Don’t hint at something then back off. That’s what starts all the drama off

Say it or shut up. Fair enough surely? Otherwise you wind people up.

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3 minutes ago, P'head Red said:

Still feel we need a strong, physical player in there somewhere

Agree.  It’s either than or accept that there are some teams where your technical midfielders are gonna get bullied.  You’ve then got to trust your team to outplay them.  It won’t always happen.  Finding one will be a challenge.  It’s like we need to unearth one under the radar, say from France.

Not sure if you’ve listened to the Forever Bristol City Podcast, but as one of the few on here fairly comfortable with Holden getting the job, I prepared myself for some flak, and made lots of notes just in case.

For me under Holden we moved from being a counter-attacking team to one actually trying to keep the ball and build from the back.  Possession moved from 48:52 to 56:44.  That’s quite a significant shift.  We moved from passing of 360:402 to 440:281, so increasing our own passes and limiting the opposition.  That included Boro where passing from both teams was way down, to Swansea where we made circa 550 passes.  Our passing success rate went up from 78% to over 80%.

But it’s a small sample, but certainly told me DH wants to pass it.  I think that’s why he found a role for one of our best technical players Pato in midfield, because he believed he could receive it in tight spots and not give it away.

What let us down in the main was our play around the penalty area.  I won’t fault Wells for the runs he makes but he will need to improve his link-up play if we intend to use him in build-up.  On the flip side he showed us he can make runs and get chances.  Boro he had his shooting boots on, Preston he didn’t.  Diedhiou also showed much better combination play, that was a bonus.  Not sure if he’ll still be here though.

2 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

If Nagy is a quality championship holding midfielder, which he has to become if he is good enough for us, then I think we should be okay. He has to show it.

Massengo was superb in the 352 at the start of the season.

Morrell and Walsh appear to be quality players who should suit that system. They played in a 2 at their clubs on loan.

Vyner is an option if needed. Not sure but maybe Rowe too.

But with the 4 we are talking about, I think 2 of those technical midfielders can work. With 3 behind them giving them extra protection and wing backs too.

We saw Massengo and Nagy perform so well against Luton. They were superb and it really helped having Weimann a bit deeper. Strange how LJ moved him back up top alongside Fam after that.

It's so much about who plays where to support the midfield. A 442 with attacking full backs and with 2 of Nagy, Massengo, Morrell or Walsh I'd say is way too much for whichever 2 we were to go with.

A nice compact 5212 I think gives them a bit of extra support in the extra defender. And with the floating midfielder dropping back too like Palmer likes to if it's him. 

If small midfield combinations don't work then we would not see examples of it working.

The key to Nagy imho is realising he’s a deep midfielder, not that he’s a defensive midfielder.  His sensing of danger is not at Smith level, but he can be key to building from deep.  That’s the conundrum.  He’s technically good, makes good angles, passes the ball with forward intent too.

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9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Agree.  It’s either than or accept that there are some teams where your technical midfielders are gonna get bullied.  You’ve then got to trust your team to outplay them.  It won’t always happen.  Finding one will be a challenge.  It’s like we need to unearth one under the radar, say from France.

Not sure if you’ve listened to the Forever Bristol City Podcast, but as one of the few on here fairly comfortable with Holden getting the job, I prepared myself for some flak, and made lots of notes just in case.

For me under Holden we moved from being a counter-attacking team to one actually trying to keep the ball and build from the back.  Possession moved from 48:52 to 56:44.  That’s quite a significant shift.  We moved from passing of 360:402 to 440:281, so increasing our own passes and limiting the opposition.  That included Boro where passing from both teams was way down, to Swansea where we made circa 550 passes.  Our passing success rate went up from 78% to over 80%.

But it’s a small sample, but certainly told me DH wants to pass it.  I think that’s why he found a role for one of our best technical players Pato in midfield, because he believed he could receive it in tight spots and not give it away.

What let us down in the main was our play around the penalty area.  I won’t fault Wells for the runs he makes but he will need to improve his link-up play if we intend to use him in build-up.  On the flip side he showed us he can make runs and get chances.  Boro he had his shooting boots on, Preston he didn’t.  Diedhiou also showed much better combination play, that was a bonus.  Not sure if he’ll still be here though.

The key to Nagy imho is realising he’s a deep midfielder, not that he’s a defensive midfielder.  His sensing of danger is not at Smith level, but he can be key to building from deep.  That’s the conundrum.  He’s technically good, makes good angles, passes the ball with forward intent too.

Yep. I think a double pivot means there's no Korey type needed, or let's say Makelele type as a perfect example. A proper protector of the back line.

A double pivot of players who are not destroyers, but positionally aware and can put their foot in when needed I hope will work.

I was actually impressed by Massengo's aggression against Blackburn that nearly got him sent off! Really hoping he develops. But of course have to be patient with him. Who knows how good he will become.

Nagy needs to have a bit more aggression for me at this level.

I completely agree with people with how good he has looked. But how many games. 3 or 4. Not many. Hopefully it is the tactics that were a big problem in him not performing.

Interesting what you say about possession. And a move to that kind of way of playing certainly suits Nagy.

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My worry, if it does prove to be Holden in charge, is he continues with weimann and pato in those midfield roles as he probably felt they worked well. I didn’t like it at all. Felt like shoehorning players on for sale of it.

whatever happens, I just don’t want the path blocked this season for the players like Walsh, morrell, moore et al

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Noticed Aliou Traore available does transfer or loan from Man Utd. Very highly rated holding midfielder. Suggestions he’s going to Caen in ligue 2.

isnt that the kind of midfielder everyone is suggesting we need? Strong, powerful holding midfielder.

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7 minutes ago, BOSRed said:

My worry, if it does prove to be Holden in charge, is he continues with weimann and pato in those midfield roles as he probably felt they worked well. I didn’t like it at all. Felt like shoehorning players on for sale of it.

whatever happens, I just don’t want the path blocked this season for the players like Walsh, morrell, moore et al

Really hoping he moves away from that. It worked really well against Boro so I guess there is potential in that.

But for me they didn't really help Korey out enough.

I'd move Weimann up top alongside Wells. It worked well in that system alongside Afobe.

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8 minutes ago, BOSRed said:

My worry, if it does prove to be Holden in charge, is he continues with weimann and pato in those midfield roles as he probably felt they worked well. I didn’t like it at all. Felt like shoehorning players on for sale of it.

whatever happens, I just don’t want the path blocked this season for the players like Walsh, morrell, moore et al

Don’t get me wrong, defensively a midfield of Smith, Weimann and Paterson doesn’t look great, but generally we didn’t get exposed too badly in the 5 games.  And what we did get was end product....something our midfield has not given us other than Brownhill, who apart from this season underperformed in goals and assists for the role he was given.  In 5 games, Weimann got 4 assists, Paterson 2 goals and 1 assist.

I genuinely don’t think both will play in there next season.

The other positive for me was that if your players know the system, the expectations of the role in the system, then players have a chance of being able to perform in their non-standard position.  We saw this with Weimann especially, Pato too...but also Vyner, RCB, RWB, RB and DM.

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