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49 minutes ago, phantom said:

 

Let's put this into some perspective, playing a season at Lincoln and for Wales against a lot of sides that are not league 1 standard doesn't suddenly mean he is good enough for a Championship side

Do you not thinking playing alongside, Ramsey, Allen, Harry Wilson and Daniel James is not a good thing. Getting into the squad is ok but playing matches with a midfield like that ain’t to shabby. 

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1 hour ago, MATT BCFC said:

His strength is work rate and ability to win the ball back. His passing ain't great and he isnt going to score many goals. For me that suggests he should be a holding midfielder. 

He looked best for us when he played alongside Pack or Wade Elliott who are both classy players on the ball who can do the things he can't so well.

Don’t quite agree. For me, a holding midfielder is someone who is positionally disciplined with strong anticipation who sits in and holds a position in front of the defence and ensure the midfield retains structure.

I agree that Korey is someone with the work rate and tackling ability to get around the midfield and win back possession but I would describe that as a ball winning midfielder rather than a holding one.

In fact, with Pack and Smith, Pack tended to “hold” a position whilst Smith would hare around harassing opposition midfielders. That is Smith’s natural game and, when he is asked to hold a position, like he was last season, you lose the advantage of his energy and work rate. I think Smith is best roaming around next to a playmaker who sits deep and holds. Asking Smith to sit and hold, as happened last season, did not get the best out of him and neutered his strengths.

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1 hour ago, MATT BCFC said:

Think the problem is we have lots of pretty similar central midfielders. Lots of busy bee like but not many with creativity or quality on the ball. Don't think we have ever really replaced Pack although think Walsh could be the man to. 

This i would certainly agree with. I think Nagy, Massengo and Smith are all players who want to roam rather than hold and I think that unbalanced our midfield last season.

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59 minutes ago, Suffolk Red said:

Korey sadly has not been the same player as a few seasons ago.

The decision is made given his injury record and that we have a lot of other emerging players.

He can still do a job but I believe his best days are behind him.

I think Swansea might be surprised to find they are not getting the player they think he is.

Yea that is just sounding like sour grapes from a player that has left our club. When he doesn't play we miss him. Injuries aside I would have him in our side every week.

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22 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Don’t quite agree. For me, a holding midfielder is someone who is positionally disciplined with strong anticipation who sits in and holds a position in front of the defence and ensure the midfield retains structure.

I agree that Korey is someone with the work rate and tackling ability to get around the midfield and win back possession but I would describe that as a ball winning midfielder rather than a holding one.

In fact, with Pack and Smith, Pack tended to “hold” a position whilst Smith would hare around harassing opposition midfielders. That is Smith’s natural game and, when he is asked to hold a position, like he was last season, you lose the advantage of his energy and work rate. I think Smith is best roaming around next to a playmaker who sits deep and holds. Asking Smith to sit and hold, as happened last season, did not get the best out of him and neutered his strengths.

I think we largely agree to be honest mate. I'm just using the term defensive midfielder more broadly speaking. 

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45 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Don’t quite agree. For me, a holding midfielder is someone who is positionally disciplined with strong anticipation who sits in and holds a position in front of the defence and ensure the midfield retains structure.

I agree that Korey is someone with the work rate and tackling ability to get around the midfield and win back possession but I would describe that as a ball winning midfielder rather than a holding one.

In fact, with Pack and Smith, Pack tended to “hold” a position whilst Smith would hare around harassing opposition midfielders. That is Smith’s natural game and, when he is asked to hold a position, like he was last season, you lose the advantage of his energy and work rate. I think Smith is best roaming around next to a playmaker who sits deep and holds. Asking Smith to sit and hold, as happened last season, did not get the best out of him and neutered his strengths.

I agree, certainly from 17/18 onwards.

16 minutes ago, MATT BCFC said:

I think we largely agree to be honest mate. I'm just using the term defensive midfielder more broadly speaking. 

It’s why I dislike the proliferation of terms like DM / CDM or CAM.  People look at the team sheet pitch view and assume too much about player role in the system.  The player as the deepest midfielder in a line up, could be Makelele, could be Molby!  Same as a 6’0 plus striker doesn’t have to be assumed as a target man.

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33 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Don’t quite agree. For me, a holding midfielder is someone who is positionally disciplined with strong anticipation who sits in and holds a position in front of the defence and ensure the midfield retains structure.

I agree that Korey is someone with the work rate and tackling ability to get around the midfield and win back possession but I would describe that as a ball winning midfielder rather than a holding one.

In fact, with Pack and Smith, Pack tended to “hold” a position whilst Smith would hare around harassing opposition midfielders. That is Smith’s natural game and, when he is asked to hold a position, like he was last season, you lose the advantage of his energy and work rate. I think Smith is best roaming around next to a playmaker who sits deep and holds. Asking Smith to sit and hold, as happened last season, did not get the best out of him and neutered his strengths.

Would broadly agree with this. But you can argue all day about the relative merits of, and subtle (or not so subtle) differences between, individual players. The essence of the situation is that, as things currently stand, in the space of about a year we have gone from having three senior players, all experienced and very capable at this level, who between them formed the core of City's midfield options - Pack, Brownhill and Smith - and have in our wisdom elected to sell, or otherwise dispense with the services of, all three. Barring new signings, the responsibility for filling the resulting void will now fall upon some combination of Nagy, Massengo, Walsh, Morrell and Palmer. All have undoubted talent. None have a significant amount of experience in this league and none, as far as I know, have yet displayed the leadership qualities of the three who have left, all of whom acted as captain at some stage in their City careers. How do we feel about that? More importantly, I wonder how Dean Holden feels about that? 

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5 minutes ago, CliftonCliff said:

Would broadly agree with this. But you can argue all day about the relative merits of, and subtle (or not so subtle) differences between, individual players. The essence of the situation is that, as things currently stand, in the space of about a year we have gone from having three senior players, all experienced and very capable at this level, who between them formed the core of City's midfield options - Pack, Brownhill and Smith - and have in our wisdom elected to sell, or otherwise dispense with the services of, all three. Barring new signings, the responsibility for filling the resulting void will now fall upon some combination of Nagy, Massengo, Walsh, Morrell and Palmer. All have undoubted talent. None have a significant amount of experience in this league and none, as far as I know, have yet displayed the leadership qualities of the three who have left, all of whom acted as captain at some stage in their City careers. How do we feel about that? More importantly, I wonder how Dean Holden feels about that? 

He was the one (so he told us) who was happy to dispense with Korey’s 173 Championship games worth of experience.  So I’d imagine he’s cool with it.

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7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

He was the one (so he told us) who was happy to dispense with Korey’s 173 Championship games worth of experience.  So I’d imagine he’s cool with it.

For the record, I don’t believe him!

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12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I agree, certainly from 17/18 onwards.

It’s why I dislike the proliferation of terms like DM / CDM or CAM.  People look at the team sheet pitch view and assume too much about player role in the system.  The player as the deepest midfielder in a line up, could be Makelele, could be Molby!  Same as a 6’0 plus striker doesn’t have to be assumed as a target man.

I think Holden will continue with 3 central midfielders. My biggest worry is he will continue with Weimann in centre mid. Would make lot more sense to have midfield 3 of Morrell/Massengo (ball winner), Walsh/Nagy (deep lying play maker) and Pato/Palmer (playmaker). Think the balance would be a lot better than what we saw post lockdown. 

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4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

He was the one (so he told us) who was happy to dispense with Korey’s 173 Championship games worth of experience.  So I’d imagine he’s cool with it.

Yes, I know. Which, in a way, I find slightly puzzling. But then a lot of puzzling things have happened (or failed to happen) over the last five or six weeks. There is what we're told, and what we choose to believe. I do think, until shown otherwise, that Holden is a bloke with integrity who will tend to tell it straight. However, there have been so many mixed communications and so much spin that I find it hard to believe that anything is as straightforward as that makes it sound. 

I can't remember the time line now, it's all been such a dog's breakfast. Which was announced first, Smith's release or Holden's appointment? If DH knew he had the job, Korey's fate must have been something he decided on (if he really did decide it) almost immediately upon being appointed - or have I got that wrong? Something about it doesn't quite ring true with me, but who knows?

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1 hour ago, RedorDead BCFC said:

Do you not thinking playing alongside, Ramsey, Allen, Harry Wilson and Daniel James is not a good thing. Getting into the squad is ok but playing matches with a midfield like that ain’t to shabby. 

Not to mention the players he was directly up against. One of them Modric, his idol. 
 

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38 minutes ago, MATT BCFC said:

I think Holden will continue with 3 central midfielders. My biggest worry is he will continue with Weimann in centre mid. Would make lot more sense to have midfield 3 of Morrell/Massengo (ball winner), Walsh/Nagy (deep lying play maker) and Pato/Palmer (playmaker). Think the balance would be a lot better than what we saw post lockdown. 

Sat here today with no more ins and outs....I’d be going Morrell, Nagy, Paterson.  But a lot can change before w/c 7th Sept.

33 minutes ago, CliftonCliff said:

Yes, I know. Which, in a way, I find slightly puzzling. But then a lot of puzzling things have happened (or failed to happen) over the last five or six weeks. There is what we're told, and what we choose to believe. I do think, until shown otherwise, that Holden is a bloke with integrity who will tend to tell it straight. However, there have been so many mixed communications and so much spin that I find it hard to believe that anything is as straightforward as that makes it sound. 

I can't remember the time line now, it's all been such a dog's breakfast. Which was announced first, Smith's release or Holden's appointment? If DH knew he had the job, Korey's fate must have been something he decided on (if he really did decide it) almost immediately upon being appointed - or have I got that wrong? Something about it doesn't quite ring true with me, but who knows?

The sequence of events is not totally clear, but what was reported was (correct me if wrong, doing from memory):

  • Fri - Dean offered job, taking weekend to decide
  • Sat - McAllister rumoured to be sacked 
  • Sunday - Korey signing new deal, refuted by him, club forced into announcing
  • Mon - Holden announced, Macca confirmed by club

Bit like you I’m not sure either, just taking Holden at his word.  He was adamant about him deciding McAllister’s fate, I’m assuming he was being honest about Korey.

As you say, I might be wrong.

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1 hour ago, MATT BCFC said:

I think Holden will continue with 3 central midfielders. My biggest worry is he will continue with Weimann in centre mid. Would make lot more sense to have midfield 3 of Morrell/Massengo (ball winner), Walsh/Nagy (deep lying play maker) and Pato/Palmer (playmaker). Think the balance would be a lot better than what we saw post lockdown. 

I can see the value of a player who runs at defences from a midfield position, committing players in front of them, whether that should be AW I am not sure. He is a willing runner and has stamina, but I never feel he has the ball completely under his control.

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20 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Sat here today with no more ins and outs....I’d be going Morrell, Nagy, Paterson.  But a lot can change before w/c 7th Sept.

The sequence of events is not totally clear, but what was reported was (correct me if wrong, doing from memory):

  • Fri - Dean offered job, taking weekend to decide
  • Sat - McAllister rumoured to be sacked 
  • Sunday - Korey signing new deal, refuted by him, club forced into announcing
  • Mon - Holden announced, Macca confirmed by club

Bit like you I’m not sure either, just taking Holden at his word.  He was adamant about him deciding McAllister’s fate, I’m assuming he was being honest about Korey.

As you say, I might be wrong.

Thanks for that, much appreciated, though like you I’m none the wiser.

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Knew he would get a deal with another Champ club but he's done very well for himself there both personally and professionally.

Best of luck to him.

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Not sure how he was not worth a deal here, but then goes and signs for a club who finished in the playoff place?

Not good enough for a 12th placed team, I hope we have something lined up to come in as we are very very lightweight in midfield!

I hope we are not relying on Morrell and Walsh off of one season in League One.

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