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4 hours ago, LoyalRed said:

And ultimately set BCFC back 10 years, we will be relegation fodder next season.  The players are happy as they know they will be safe under Holden, collect their wage and under perform on a regular basis 

In a nutshell 👏 Some on here think appointing a mediocre coach who was part of our clubs problems as 1/3 of the coaching team will work because SL believes all other 23 clubs in the Championship will go bust leaving us with an automatic promotion next season. In 62 years of watching this club, you could not make it up, even Dominic Cummings would have problems spinning this

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31 minutes ago, Aberdeen Pete's Dad said:

The financial situation is being used as a reason why the cheap option of Dean Holden being appointed, but it is a two way thing. If Chris Hughton or any other manager ,is looking for a job, then they will have to accept that they will not be paid as much as they have in the past , and if they want a job ,they will have to accept the new reality. For all we know, Hughton or whoever else, may realise this. The main issue may not be having an acceptable level of control of the team, which would be a sticking point whatever the financial situation.

It certainly is a two way thing and until other teams need to recruit a new manager / coach only then will the applicants finally realise its now a very different situation to salaries and budgets than pre COVID. 
 

We just happen to be one of the first clubs to go through this process and the reality of the situation has not yet sunk in. 

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19 minutes ago, tin said:

 

@Davefevs, I clearly stated that I was looking at the zenith of their careers and who they may have learnt under during those times. Solely with the intention of showing SL's vision for making City the Barcelona of the UK is flawed. We are an established second-tier club in need of an establish second-tier manager with experience of getting into the PL, as has been stated on many occasion by the board. 

 

Yeah, I get that, Simpson might suggest his zenith was Man City though, pre-Prem era.  But I get your point.

Genuine Question - is SL trying to make us Barcelona or just likes the model of multi-sport club?  I may have had my ears closed but I’ve only really identified that he likes the multi-sport model, and wanted that at City, hence Bears and Flyers.  But I’m not sure.

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29 minutes ago, tin said:

Holden and his two amigos are not the men to do that, especially when SL admitted "we had a lot of good applicants". Bullshit baffles brains.

I like the Barca model, but unfortunately we don't have Pep or the worlds best footballer to assist us in our mission!

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1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Yep, what a massive and vitally needed lift an exciting appointment would make after 2 years of dreadful, tedious football at AG which would test the enthusiasm of even the most passionate fan.

Fortress Ashton Gate?

Snorefest AG morelike. :fastasleep:

I'm finding it hard to be arsed anymore, and most weekends I was going to football either home or away. I always find the summer break quite hard but Coivid and now this has got me doing other stuff, I didn't like watching the behind closed doors matches. It's doing to be tough for them to tempt me back, and certainly with all these uninspiring rumours

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1 hour ago, AshtonGreat said:

Let's just say I miss the days when there was actually some excitement at Ashton Gate. It's all very boring when you attend matches nowadays.

Well we don't attend matchdays at the moment and will have to see what happens in the months ahead.  My family is locked down still and I won't be going again until vaccinated. The board and coaches will do their best to give us a good show when Ashton Gate can be safely filled again.

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30 minutes ago, Nibor said:

The point I'm making about the accounts is that they tell you what the maximum impact could be.  Everyone keeps talking as though matchday revenue is make or break, but it actually isn't. 

There's no political jibe in that post either, the effects of recessions and recoveries on wealth distribution are well documented over many years.

The indexes are generally half way back to pre-COVID prices and yes dividends are impacted but SL's wealth allows him to fund the club out of change he finds down the sofa.  It's really not a big deal for him and his investments outside HL will be diversified I am sure.  He was worth roughly £2bn before COVID.  Finding £8m to fund the maximum loss allowed under FFP will never be difficult for him under any circumstances.

This is all really irrelevant though, because simple common sense will tell you that hiring Holden (and two other coaches!) is not a decision based on budget.

The firms that use Ag facilities, sponsorship, merchandise, and many other items will be impacted - for how long? Will it get better? Or worse? How many supporting companies will go bust? There are so many shadows of this dreadful disease.  I am just longing for a vaccination so we can get on with our lives. I bet the board would like to find some certainty in plotting the way ahead. 

Many of the indices are still around the lowest they have been since the last recession.  The future is murky at best and even Shell had not seen fit to pay their normal high dividend. Respectfully, you have no idea how SL is invested - nor do I. But I know the classes of investments and that SL is invested in tourism in Africa, an airline, financial services and sports clubs - all these involve customers to generate income and they are in pretty short supply right now. Assuming he also has a portfolio of investments - a fair assumption because that was one of the reasons for setting up his FS firm in the Channel Islands - then he will also be feeling the cold wind like many other investors. Most wealthy people do not keep cash down the back of sofas but tend to employ wealth by means of investments. We have no idea how SL is really impacted and by what degree.

Every great head coach had to start with his first big break. They know him and have faith. The least we can do is to give him a fair chance and our full support. We have nothing to lose by being decent committed Bristol City fans.

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35 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yeah, I get that, Simpson might suggest his zenith was Man City though, pre-Prem era.  But I get your point.

Genuine Question - is SL trying to make us Barcelona or just likes the model of multi-sport club?  I may have had my ears closed but I’ve only really identified that he likes the multi-sport model, and wanted that at City, hence Bears and Flyers.  But I’m not sure.

That depends on how you define 'make us Barcelona'.

SL's gone on record about copying FCB by bringing all the sports under one umbrella, thinking that success is easier to attain as one (or words to that effect). I interpret the current coaching reshuffle to be something similar to what's in place at the Nou Camp or on the continent in general. I also interpret his historial approach to promoting from within as something he's taken from FCB. Off the pitch, anyone who's been to the Nou Camp knows the handball and basketball venues next door to the stadium (Palau Blaugrana). I think the paralels of what SL is trying to do are pretty obvious. 

I've got nothing against that model, as long as we have the individuals to fit that structure. That's where this whole concept falls down, though. It failed with Fawthrop, Tinnion and Millen, and it will do with Holden. We don't have the history or tradition to make a model like that work. I could understand it if we went for a candidate like Van Bommel who's been groomed that way, but cannot fathom how it's taken five weeks to conclude Holden is that man. 

I suspect the whole process is an ego trip for SL, one he cannot lose sight of or abandon, despite us playing the best football and having the most success in my 28 years as a supporter under Cotts - a football manager with control over the signings (at least until we got to this level). That's what we need now, if the ambition about getting to the PL is genuine. 

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21 minutes ago, RedM said:

I'm finding it hard to be arsed anymore, and most weekends I was going to football either home or away. I always find the summer break quite hard but Coivid and now this has got me doing other stuff, I didn't like watching the behind closed doors matches. It's doing to be tough for them to tempt me back, and certainly with all these uninspiring rumours

Be of stout heart! Bristol City will rise and the Ashton Roar will be heard again before long. Personally I can't wait to get some "Feed the Goat" food again. Bloody marvellous!!

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55 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Its irrelevant.

Is it bollocks 5 grand a week isn't cheap but that might be Holdens wages and cheaper than an established coach. 

Not sure why you persist with that argument. Lansdown spends lots of money on lots of mediocre people. I think he could spend the same or only a bit more with smaller numbers of better people. 

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2 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

Is it bollocks 5 grand a week isn't cheap but that might be Holdens wages and cheaper than an established coach. 

Not sure why you persist with that argument. Lansdown spends lots of money on lots of mediocre people. I think he could spend the same or only a bit more with smaller numbers of better people. 

The variation in wage is nothing compared to the variation in finances between success and failure.

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4 minutes ago, Riaz said:

The variation in wage is nothing compared to the variation in finances between success and failure.

I agree which is why appointing no marks rarely works and the prize is absolutely massive and appointing people fit for purpose off the pitch is less of a gamble 

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5 hours ago, Nibor said:

The reason the club have spent a month farting around and then seemingly arrived at the conclusion that the best man available for the job was the inexperienced underling of the one they fired is nothing to do with money and everything to do with protecting the Ashton's complete control over the squad and Lansdown's desire to continually interfere with the first team.

That’s a statement and a bit! Anything you know directly or is this your opinion based upon anecdotes?

 

 

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Funny argument @Bat Fastard - basically, us fans know nothing about what goes on in the boardroom, so we should suck it up.

Except for you.....you know exactly what the board are doing, you've sussed it all out. They're taking the financially prudent option, right?

And you've worked that out, how? Have you seen the accounts, or just the best guesses of people on here? Were you privvy to minutes from these board meetings, or just the scraps of rumours pieced together from OTIB and Bristol Post's click bait.

The fact is it doesn't take a genius to work out COVID will hit football, but that's the simple truth and that doesn't align with the way the club have gone about appointing the person they have.

If we need to tighten our purse strings, develop what we have, improve youth, find bargins from the lower leagues, fine. (I wonder what some of the players who signed on the promise of promotions pushes will feel, but that's another argument). So go out and find the damn best head coach you can for that job. Many names have been mentioned already, like Lowe and they ALL have a more proven track record than Dean Holden (not difficult) and many would not have come at a price that was not possible due to covid restraints. 

But that's NOT what we've done (again) and that is why people are completely flummoxed. Fine, let's take this path, but in appointing someone with little to no track record, to earn his stripes in arguably the toughest league in the world, we are taking a huge gamble, that if backfires will be arguably more damaging than any covid financial restrictions could inflict on the club.

Worst of all, you can't ignore the feeling of deja vu, we've been here before and it's cost us dearly before. Fine it may be Lansdown's cash, but how many more promotion/relegation cycles does he have in the bank?

 

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2 hours ago, Monkeh said:

If there is a profit then why is there cost cutting, the profit we made of the players we sold has been pissed up against the wall

You always need to trade on outlook. If the outlook is not great (no match day tickets/booze/hotdogs/progs etc,) revenue will be effected . The effect Covid will have on tv revenues remains to be seen, as leverage has changed.

I agree the board backed their manager that spent money poorly and was not motivating the ones that were here, while keeping players on the bench. 

Cost cutting measures in the G8 are inevitable in all industries. Bristol City is no different and has been left with a huge wage bill which will need to be sorted, possibly at the cost of selling assets into a buyers market!

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Funny argument @Bat Fastard - basically, us fans know nothing about what goes on in the boardroom, so we should suck it up.

Except for you.....you know exactly what the board are doing, you've sussed it all out. They're taking the financially prudent option, right?

And you've worked that out, how? Have you seen the accounts, or just the best guesses of people on here? Were you privvy to minutes from these board meetings, or just the scraps of rumours pieced together from OTIB and Bristol Post's click bait.

The fact is it doesn't take a genius to work out COVID will hit football, but that's the simple truth and that doesn't align with the way the club have gone about appointing the person they have.

If we need to tighten our purse strings, develop what we have, improve youth, find bargins from the lower leagues, fine. (I wonder what some of the players who signed on the promise of promotions pushes will feel, but that's another argument). So go out and find the damn best head coach you can for that job. Many names have been mentioned already, like Lowe and they ALL have a more proven track record than Dean Holden (not difficult) and many would not have come at a price that was not possible due to covid restraints. 

But that's NOT what we've done (again) and that is why people are completely flummoxed. Fine, let's take this path, but in appointing someone with little to no track record, to earn his stripes in arguably the toughest league in the world, we are taking a huge gamble, that if backfires will be arguably more damaging than any covid financial restrictions could inflict on the club.

Worst of all, you can't ignore the feeling of deja vu, we've been here before and it's cost us dearly before. Fine it may be Lansdown's cash, but how many more promotion/relegation cycles does he have in the bank?

 

I have repeatedly stated that I have no more idea than anyone else when it comes to the boardroom discussions, but I have been in enough board meetings to know the kind of things that will probably need to be discussed. What nobody outside knows is what inspired the choice of Dean Holden - either you think badly of the board for making a choice like this, or you start to wonder WHY they made the choice. Most on here seem to dismiss the idea that he might just have been recognised as a very fine coach who was stymied in his ideas by Lee Johnson.  That may be total bull, but it is a possibility. Would the board knowingly appoint a dud? Or do they think he is good enough to build into the type of head coach that they need to take the club forward.

If the fans are revolting, well what is new? Every time we get a new manager/coach/strip/ground improvement or whatever, people come on here saying that, on the grounds of this sleight to them personally, they will never go to Ashton Gate again or whatever.  I believe that the board have been struggling with some very difficult issues and the howls of abuse from fans cannot help in any way.

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3 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

I have repeatedly stated that I have no more idea than anyone else when it comes to the boardroom discussions, but I have been in enough board meetings to know the kind of things that will probably need to be discussed. What nobody outside knows is what inspired the choice of Dean Holden - either you think badly of the board for making a choice like this, or you start to wonder WHY they made the choice. Most on here seem to dismiss the idea that he might just have been recognised as a very fine coach who was stymied in his ideas by Lee Johnson.  That may be total bull, but it is a possibility. Would the board knowingly appoint a dud? Or do they think he is good enough to build into the type of head coach that they need to take the club forward.

If the fans are revolting, well what is new? Every time we get a new manager/coach/strip/ground improvement or whatever, people come on here saying that, on the grounds of this sleight to them personally, they will never go to Ashton Gate again or whatever.  I believe that the board have been struggling with some very difficult issues and the howls of abuse from fans cannot help in any way.

You've repeatedly stated you have no idea, but you've started a thread where you've said:

"It has become clear that there may be a very difficult set of financial circumstances facing our club"

"there will be comings and goings as usual, but our ambitions will be tempered by financial constraints"

"it seems that the board have decided to double down on our original strategy of developing youth - both for sale and to build the first team"

"obviously admired by the board, players and others in the club"

"He also fits in with the budget and is the continuity candidate because a new experienced manager may well have wanted to make very expensive changes to playing squad, staff and modus operandi"

"Everything the board appear to have decided so far looks sound and logical from the perspective of what is best for our long term interests and gets us over the, hopefully, short term financial obstacles."

That's a whole load of presumptuous statements, wouldn't you say? Given you've stated you don't know any facts?

And despite this, at the end of your long list of presumptuous statements, you write, sorry to tell other fans:

"maybe it is about time for the fans to be rather more understanding of the owner and board and to come to terms with the fact that we are living in unprecedented times and we will need to make wise and prudent decisions to benefit in the long run"

Well many fans have genuine concerns and are entitled to voice them. While the board send either no messages, or completely mixed messages to the fans, expect that dissent to increase. 

R.E you're comment "Would the board knowingly appoint a dud?" - you're working under the assumption that their acumen is completely sound.

Not many would question the boards intentions....judgement, however.....Tinnion, Millen.......Holden?

Given the unprecedented times we're living in, gambling our place in this division wouldn't be a wise or prudent decision, would it?

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

You've repeatedly stated you have no idea, but you've started a thread where you've said:

"It has become clear that there may be a very difficult set of financial circumstances facing our club"

"there will be comings and goings as usual, but our ambitions will be tempered by financial constraints"

"it seems that the board have decided to double down on our original strategy of developing youth - both for sale and to build the first team"

"obviously admired by the board, players and others in the club"

"He also fits in with the budget and is the continuity candidate because a new experienced manager may well have wanted to make very expensive changes to playing squad, staff and modus operandi"

"Everything the board appear to have decided so far looks sound and logical from the perspective of what is best for our long term interests and gets us over the, hopefully, short term financial obstacles."

That's a whole load of presumptuous statements, wouldn't you say? Given you've stated you don't know any facts?

And despite this, at the end of your long list of presumptuous statements, you write, sorry to tell other fans:

"maybe it is about time for the fans to be rather more understanding of the owner and board and to come to terms with the fact that we are living in unprecedented times and we will need to make wise and prudent decisions to benefit in the long run"

Well many fans have genuine concerns and are entitled to voice them. While the board send either no messages, or completely mixed messages to the fans, expect that dissent to increase. 

R.E you're comment "Would the board knowingly appoint a dud?" - you're working under the assumption that their acumen is completely sound.

Not many would question the boards intentions....judgement, however.....Tinnion, Millen.......Holden?

Given the unprecedented times we're living in, gambling our place in this division wouldn't be a wise or prudent decision, would it?

 

 

Try taking every one of those sentences and turn it around to mean the exact opposite.  Try it, I just did and it was an interesting exercise.  Most of what I have said is stating the bloody obvious. We will all have to see how it pans out.

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13 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

Try taking every one of those sentences and turn it around to mean the exact opposite.  Try it, I just did and it was an interesting exercise.  Most of what I have said is stating the bloody obvious. We will all have to see how it pans out.

I'm failing to see the relevance of your interesting exercise.

You've not answered any of my questions, however.

My point remains - you're presuming a lot and telling other fans not to presume a lot.

You're stating the bloody obvious, in your opinion, without any of the knowledge and the full facts of the situation, just a blanket 'common sense' presumption that because of covid 19 it's all financial doom and gloom, we should just accept what the board decides.

I, and clearly many others have a few more questions for the board however.

 

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I simply cannot understand the logic behind appointing Dean Holden. It does not inspire confidence or any sense of investment in Bristol City FC. In fact it does all of the opposite. Supporters are exactly that, investing supporters of a company, season ticket sales, match tickets, online broadcasting sales, merchandise sales. The supporters would it the main feel extremely disenfranchised by such an appointment, I have hardly read any positive reactions to the potential of this appointment.

What are they thinking?

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So, a new ‘Covid’ period of financial reality/ austerity beckons, one which, to my mind, is more likely to lead to the risk of relegation than the chance of promotion. Ultimately, I get it - it’s easy, after all, to spend other people’s money. Just profoundly sad that the only manager that SL ( or indeed the club) has backed seriously in the transfer market was possibly the one least likely to make it count. Not being able to allow someone like Hughton the chance to spend half the sums given to LJ is just agonising. I’m sure that City fans in 30 years time will look back and groan at the opportunity missed.

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8 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

I'm failing to see the relevance of your interesting exercise.

You've not answered any of my questions, however.

My point remains - you're presuming a lot and telling other fans not to presume a lot.

You're stating the bloody obvious, in your opinion, without any of the knowledge and the full facts of the situation, just a blanket 'common sense' presumption that because of covid 19 it's all financial doom and gloom, we should just accept what the board decides.

I, and clearly many others have a few more questions for the board however.

 

You have significantly oversimplified what I have been saying, and if you chose to try my "interesting exercise" you will see that with every statement - if you state the opposite, you would see it would be daft.  If you cannot be bothered to do it, then I cannot spend more time - I have answered many dozens and have other things waiting to be done.  I wish you joy of the day!

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Dunno if the wage itself for a Hughton or similar might have been the issue.

It'd be significant demands for transfers or wage budget for the squad- something that may or may not be feasible in these times.

3 minutes ago, Bedred31 said:

So, a new ‘Covid’ period of financial reality/ austerity beckons, one which, to my mind, is more likely to lead to the risk of relegation than the chance of promotion. Ultimately, I get it - it’s easy, after all, to spend other people’s money. Just profoundly sad that the only manager that SL ( or indeed the club) has backed seriously in the transfer market was possibly the one least likely to make it count. Not being able to allow someone like Hughton the chance to spend half the sums given to LJ is just agonising. I’m sure that City fans in 30 years time will look back and groan at the opportunity missed.

Worth noting that we didn't have the income in 2015/16 within FFP regulations- assuming you are comparing Cotts v LJ- to do so. Our income rose quite sharply between that season and 2018/19- it's all in the accounts- bit of a Happy Accident for LJ.

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7 hours ago, KeepUpLino said:

Is this the other part to SL’s master plan? Get rid of all the passionate old School fans, the ones who actually give a **** and don’t except all the ******* bullshit and replace them with happy clapping lemmings like you? I’m seriously done with all this bollocks, City can **** off for all I care... The football club I grew up to passionately love is dead!!

I await eagerly your financial projections in line with FFP regulations which clubs have to stick to or face the consequences- ask Birmingham and Sheffield Wednesday fans. :thumbsup:

Or even Derby fans whose wait goes on- could go on about various transfer embargoes or soft ones- but who is to say we are not under some kind of soft embargo or at least closer monitoring or similar already!

I also eagerly await your counterbalance analysis on a potential wage cap that might come in to replace FFP, was/has been mooted as soon as next season.

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11 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

You have significantly oversimplified what I have been saying, and if you chose to try my "interesting exercise" you will see that with every statement - if you state the opposite, you would see it would be daft.  If you cannot be bothered to do it, then I cannot spend more time - I have answered many dozens and have other things waiting to be done.  I wish you joy of the day!

Me going through everything you've said and stating the opposite doesn't take away from all the points i've made that you are still (regardless of what you think is obvious and common sense) making a series of presumptions, yet asking others not to.

And it also doesn't take away from the fact that you've now on 2 occasions avoided answering the series of questions i've asked you that counter your assumptions of what common sense is in this situation.

That comes across rather like you've made your mind up and don't want to listen to what others have to say - rather ironic when you've basically told everyone what they should be thinking!

Good day to you too.

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8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I await eagerly your financial projections in line with FFP regulations which clubs have to stick to or face the consequences- ask Birmingham and Sheffield Wednesday fans. :thumbsup:

Or even Derby fans whose wait goes on- could go on about various transfer embargoes or soft ones- but who is to say we are not under some kind of soft embargo or at least closer monitoring or similar already!

I also eagerly await your counterbalance analysis on a potential wage cap that might come in to replace FFP, was/has been mooted as soon as next season.

To be fair, Lansdown  presides over an organisation that does appear to have been alienating traditional supporters for some time now.

He is therefore taking a huge gamble that should he go down the Holden route (confirmed yet ?) we don't go down because trying to get a lot of disenchanted former SC holders to sign up yet again may prove an insurmountable task.

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Just now, Natchfever said:

To be fair, Lansdown  presides over an organisation that does appear to have been alienating traditional supporters for some time now.

He is therefore taking a huge gamble that should he go down the Holden route (confirmed yet ?) we don't go down because trying to get a lot of disenchanted former SC holders to sign up yet again may prove an insurmountable task.

That's fair. I do get that- some of the posts can be a bit harsh given Covid and that though I feel.

I'm not a fan of the Holden appointment- I'm prepared to give him a chance out of fairness- but I don't see us pushing top six that's for sure. Relegation would be a disaster I do not disagree.

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7 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

Well i see SL is not doing that with the bears. They have been signing lots of top stars. The latest they are trying for is Beauden Barrett. So one law for the bears another for the City.

The wage cap in rugby is £7m a season I believe. Happy to double check but they have some regulations too about Marquee signings.

That said the symbolic message it sends about the two respective sides- absolutely. Even though the numbers are vastly different, the optics they are not good!

Actually a club has reportedly breached it, I read the other day- would be somewhat embarrassing if it was SL's rugby side! 🙈 (Sure it isn't however).

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7 hours ago, Riaz said:

Fully expect us, like all clubs, to not be spending much in the transfer market

But if anyone thinks we have appointed Dean Holden because of financial reasons they are wrong.

If we wanted Chris Hughton, his salary wouldnt have been an issue.

Managers job is the most important position at a football club - you dont underspend on that position, because in the long run, you pay for it...

SL and co, clearly think Deano is the best candidate for the job!

I agree with a lot of this post but what sort of budget would a Hughton etc ask for? Salary not the issue.

Appointing a good strong candidate as manager though is certainly more cost effective in the long term than appointing a cheap manager who cannot then get the best out of expensive players.

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