Time to sell up and move on Mr Lansdown

[BS4 on Tour...]

6 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

-Leicester are a bigger club, always have been- well maybe not always but generally- always likely to bounce back quicker once act got together.

-Southampton were mismanaged horribly for years- when that momentum kicks back in and you are a naturally medium or top flight club (see how many years they were in it), that can take you up quickly.

-Burnley just hit a hot streak, crest of a wave in 2008-09. They reached a Cup semi and won the playoffs- maybe we could/should have achieved this in 2017/18- that Cup momentum can really push you on in the League, in the playoffs- which is like a set of Cup finals! Parachute Payments and yoyo ing helped them build and all credit to them.

-Norwich, well they're a bigger club, historically speaking- in terms of top flight appearances etc. Always averaged mid 20's in modern times? See Southampton and momentum factor. Bit of a yoyo club anyway.

-Leeds were mismanaged for years and recovering from a near death experience- once big clubs like that get going and are managed correctly.

-Brighton reached an FA Cup final within living memory- early 1980s. More importantly though, there are similarities- but it is worth noting they had quite a latent yet large fanbase- check their attendances, check their accounts. Once a mix of new ground, Bloom and momentum all kicked in they reached and surpassed us! Their attendances trebled overnight on promotion, or was it their revenue- both shot up quite remarkably in 2011-12 once they reached the Championship, the timing was excellent with respect to moving to a new stadium. That really helps to push a club on, as a combination.

-Brentford- Have a fairly unique model, scrapped their academy which us a source of both players for us, and vital income/profit on transfers. Their recruitment and resale is fantastic. I think ours is hit and miss and alright but not on their level, very much not.

How proven was Pearson when he took Leicester on their path of revival in summer 2008- or Adkins? Adkins was reasonable and more than Holden of course. Coyle was akin to McInnes, good work at St Johnstone at time of appointment- Norwich under Lambert, he was good but nothing special prior to joining them, Leeds- Grayson started that one rolling, Poyet at Brighton and various at Brentford. None of them stellar names at the time!

It's interesting you should talk about post Coppell- once again check the accounts, our wage bill increased year in year out over several years to 2013 and yet our position first stagnated and then went backwards.

Good summary - and yep, we are in agreement, as I said, since 2008 we have stagnated and regressed while all the clubs discussed in mine and your post have moved sharply upwards...

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

14 hours ago, Bullbag said:

Well you just continue to be one of Lansdown's sheep then.

So you can lap all the bull**** that comes out of his mouth.

Carry on thinking he's the messiah, which he most certainly is not, and carry on accepting mediocrity and false statement and lies.

Supporters like you are why this club never does bloody anything, ever. Boring boring boring.

No ambition, too cosy and i'm ****ing sick of it.

Seeing same sized and smaller clubs passing us by for the last how many years while we stagnate year after year after year.

Even if we were to appoint a top coach Lansdown would likely poke his nose in again and mess evrything up.

Enough is enough.

That’s simply untrue.  We have not stagnated year after year: we are unrecognisable compared to where we were seven years ago.  Also who are all these ‘same sized and smaller clubs’ that have done so well?  I can’t think of anyone except Bournemouth.  Or do you think the likes of Leeds, WBA and Fulham count?  It makes me so angry when fans use ‘alternative truths’ to support their tenuous arguments.  Either argue on the basis of the TRUTH or don’t argue at all.

[JBFC II]

12 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Love that passion mate  - and you make lots of good points. Looking back to when we very nearly made it to the premier league (2008 as if we could forget!) at the end of that same season:

- Leicester City were relegated to league one

- Southampton finished 20th in the championship

- Burnley finished 13th in the championship

- Norwich City finished 17th in the championship

- Leeds were in league one

- Brighton were in league one

- Brentford were in league two etc ...

... anyone who thinks we haven’t stagnated over the last decade or so should really think again ... I could be way wide of the mark, but since Coppell buggered off our club has occasionally shot a fearful glance upwards and has shown zero ambition to getting there and zero commitment to really kicking on; just look at the managerial appointments since Coppell ... 

But then at the same time in that season: 

Portsmouth finished 8th in the Premier League (now in league one)

Middlesbrough finished 13th in the premier league (finished last season below us)

Wigan finished 14th in the premier league (now in league one in deep financial trouble) 

Sunderland finished 15th in the premier league (now in league one) 

Bolton finished 16th in the premier league (now in league two) 

Reading finished 18th in the premier league (finished last season below us) 

Birmingham finished 19th in the premier league (finished last season below us) 

Stoke got promoted to the Premier League (finished last season below us) 

Hull got promoted to the Premier League (now in league one) 

Whilst you may be right that we have been overtaken by all those clubs, there’s a list of clubs we’ve overtaken in the mean time. But I suppose that point doesn’t fit in with the mood of the forum at the moment!

[MarcusX]

14 hours ago, Atticus said:

I agree, its not so much about how much money we have, or where we are in the league. It would be nice to go back to the days when we appointed MANAGERS, that were allowed to manage the ******* football club. Something I dont ever see happening again under Lansdown. 

 

How much success did we have under that model?

I grow up supporting a "sleeping giant" (silly term) that struggled like hell to get out of league 1 / division 3 and almost immediately came back down.

SL has improved us greatly as a club. We may not have progressed as quickly as some would like but how many clubs do?

[MarcusX]

7 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

But then at the same time in that season: 

Portsmouth finished 8th in the Premier League (now in league one)

Middlesbrough finished 13th in the premier league (finished last season below us)

Wigan finished 14th in the premier league (now in league one in deep financial trouble) 

Sunderland finished 15th in the premier league (now in league one) 

Bolton finished 16th in the premier league (now in league two) 

Reading finished 18th in the premier league (finished last season below us) 

Birmingham finished 19th in the premier league (finished last season below us) 

Stoke got promoted to the Premier League (finished last season below us) 

Hull got promoted to the Premier League (now in league one) 

Whilst you may be right that we have been overtaken by all those clubs, there’s a list of clubs we’ve overtaken in the mean time. But I suppose that point doesn’t fit in with the mood of the forum at the moment!

Bang on, it's easy to find examples that fit your argument.

Though some would probably be happy to see us in League 1 again if it meant we had just 1 season in the Prem. I'd rather we continued improving as a club, and the facilities and made it when we're ready to push on and not just because someone splashed millions and took a gamble that put us at great risk ala Wigan, Bolton, Portsmouth and Sunderland to an extent.

[Guest]

14 hours ago, ZiderEyed said:

Define successful. Personally I'd rather be a League 1 club that I feel connected to than a Championship club that I feel ignored by.

Not least because being a billionaire is immoral. 

Appreciate it's an unpopular view but there we go.

 

Here's the problem, what you define as success seems at odds with what this thread is about.
Why don't you start a thread that talks about your moral views of football ownership, that it doesn't matter about achieving Premiership football, as long as there is a connection with the club to fans etc. Let's see how well it's received?

Fans do want premiership football but they aren't going to do that without a wealthy owner (and your posting is reveals your view on wealth). This is a well founded belief and I'd be more than happy to be proved wrong.

 

This posting is a knee jerk reaction on OTIB and is piggy backing off some justified feelings of some disenfranchisement. It however is a point of view on OTIB, probably not held by most fans and there will be those who will forgive and forget as time goes by. This no doubt causes outrage with some who appear to be determined to keep the outrage going, believe that they are the only ones who can divine what is right and proper for the club etc. (cue the mock outrage for me suggesting how some people think). Carry on, I won't be joining you.

If some fans think that football is a democracy, then they will sadly be disappointed time and time again.

COYR

[Chappers]

I just think where the club was 15 years ago, where we are now, how much SL has invested in improving facilities and putting the club on a sound and sustainable footing, and fans still complain. Let’s not forget that he will keep the club going over the difficult months/ years ahead.

Our chairman is not a disgrace, a small number of our fans are!

[Natchfever]

16 hours ago, RedRoss said:

Oh don't play the victim card. Our society is way too sensitive nowadays but that's another issue.

When did middle-aged get added to the 'hate speech' political correctness pile? You say I'm a sheep

I say you're a bit odd actually.

Go find a phone box to have a row with yourself.

[swindon fan]

You lot must be mad wanting Lansdown out. Most clubs yearn for a wealthy fan owner not some foreign conglomerate only interested in sucking money from a club.

Looking in from outside it does appear a strange, unambitious appointment but who knows how it will turn out. Thank your lucky stars he didn’t turn to Luke Williams!

[Natchfever]

2 hours ago, Chappers said:

I just think where the club was 15 years ago, where we are now, how much SL has invested in improving facilities and putting the club on a sound and sustainable footing, and fans still complain. Let’s not forget that he will keep the club going over the difficult months/ years ahead.

Our chairman is not a disgrace, a small number of our fans are!

I agree, Lansdown senior is not a disgrace, neither is he a benefactor, but I think he could do so much better and that is why a number of fans are starting to take a different view towards him.

[Red-Robbo]

This saga marked the point where I finally lost all faith in Steve Lansdown vis a vis his role at this club. Regular Otibers will know I've been fairly supportive of him and sometimes an apologist for his past mistakes.

It's been a scales falling from eyes moment for me.

I don't necessarily want him to sell up, but I want him to appoint a properly qualified board and STEP THE **** BACK FROM HAVING A SAY IN HOW THE CLUB IS RUN!

[lenred]

7 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

This saga marked the point where I finally lost all faith in Steve Lansdown vis a vis his role at this club. Regular Otibers will know I've been fairly supportive of him and sometimes an apologist for his past mistakes.

It's been a scales falling from eyes moment for me.

I don't necessarily want him to sell up, but I want him to appoint a properly qualified board and STEP THE **** BACK FROM HAVING A SAY IN HOW THE CLUB IS RUN!

Yep - that’s the point. Extremely grateful mostly for the investment on the whole, but on the pitch it has got us absolutely nowhere really. Need new faces making the football decisions to take us to the next level. Won’t ever happen though unfortunately. 

[Natchfever]

3 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

This saga marked the point where I finally lost all faith in Steve Lansdown vis a vis his role at this club. Regular Otibers will know I've been fairly supportive of him and sometimes an apologist for his past mistakes.

It's been a scales falling from eyes moment for me.

I don't necessarily want him to sell up, but I want him to appoint a properly qualified board and STEP THE **** BACK FROM HAVING A SAY IN HOW THE CLUB IS RUN!

I think he sees himself and Ashton as being properly qualified so cannot see that ever happening whilst he still has his faculties intact.

He is a self made (by association with Hargreaves) billionaire and widely respected by the majority of City and Bristol rugby fans, plus he  has a stand named after himself, so he surely has a powerful ego and belief in that he absolutely knows best. That being the case I cannot imagine he will spend his time tending his strawberry patch in Guernsey whilst his brainchild is in the hands of others.

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Good summary - and yep, we are in agreement, as I said, since 2008 we have stagnated and regressed while all the clubs discussed in mine and your post have moved sharply upwards...

Lot of them bigger clubs, was more likely. Not all of them of course.

Otoh, as others have pointed out, Birmingham, Hull, Portsmouth, Reading, Sunderland, Wigan have all declined sharply. Blackburn were relatively established as a decent PL side too, bit of a way from that now. Middlesbrough a lower midtable PL side, likewise.

[Bazooka Joe]

19 hours ago, SODS_LAW said:

Wow the last 5 weeks have been shocking but really? Take a look around we’re so lucky to have a stable club ran by a stable owner.

 

Stable this, stable that.

Typical, boring, risk-averse accountant's stuff.

If the emphasis is on "stable", why doesn't he just stick his money into horse-racing? Plenty of stables there for him.

There's a ready-made racecourse for him near Bath.

[lenred]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Lot of them bigger clubs, was more likely. Not all of them of course.

Otoh, as others have pointed out, Birmingham, Hull, Portsmouth, Reading, Sunderland, Wigan have all declined sharply. Blackburn were relatively established as a decent PL side too, bit of a way from that now. Middlesbrough a lower midtable PL side, likewise.

With respect Mr P, those clubs have ‘had the journey’ and enjoyed high times in the Prem, FA cup etc with all that brings in terms of experiences, away days, drama etc. Give me their journey as opposed to ours any day of the week. 

[the frampton balti]

18 hours ago, Aberdeen Pete's Dad said:

I think Steve Lansdown wants the best for the club. I am absolutely sure of it. It is just that he is clueless at picking managers. We would be mad to want him to leave the club. There are an awful lot of terrible owners.We all know who they are.

He will appoint a good manager one day. But not today - obviously !

Steve Cotterell was not a popular choice !

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, lenred said:

With respect Mr P, those clubs have ‘had the journey’ and enjoyed high times in the Prem, FA cup etc with all that brings in terms of experiences, away days, drama etc. Give me their journey as opposed to ours any day of the week. 

Don't deny that, some of them arguably bigger found but yeah trophies won, away days, shock results, including on the road. They've had a great time but basically pointing out that though we've fallen behind a fair few, a fair few have fallen behind us. 

Still I'm not at SL stage, far from that point.

[Mr Popodopolous]

@BigAl&Toby

With respect to SL and the club, I read your posts with interest. 

I know AG, assume the training ground, Wickes too? Which other freeholds are there? You're clearly across this more than me!

Surely too until such a time that they are realised, they are in a sense paper assets/gains?

[Bat Fastard]

If I was a member of the Lansdown family and chanced to read some of the vile postings on this site, I would not be motivated to do anything that might benefit the ungrateful whinging so and so bar stewards that infest these pages.  They would have a happier life if they gave it two fingers and sold it to the even richer(!!!) owner of the club up the road, who could then happily merge his empire into the facilities. Be very careful what you wish for!  

[Spoons]

19 hours ago, formerly known as ivan said:

It’s now apparent that despite the talk of recent years, investment in the stadium and on players fees/wages, Mr Lansdown has given up on the promise of the premier league.

Yes he has been great for the club over the years. As above, he has invested greatly. I’ve always had greatly belief in what he was trying to achieve.

That’s all now out the window. As being as close as we are to a decent team breaking into the top 6, all that felt like it was missing  was that quality manager with the know how to get us there.

Today’s soon to be confirmed announcement all but confirms this is now nothing more than hope rather than expectation.

He interests and loyalty lay elsewhere. Many of us had seen for years Johnson wasn’t going to deliver what was required yet he continued to stick by him. Worse than that is who he has chosen to replace him with.

Thanks for the memories but time to hand over the reigns to some willing to do what is needed to get us over that line.

Bring back the Aubergine.....

[Red-Robbo]

50 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

I think he sees himself and Ashton as being properly qualified so cannot see that ever happening whilst he still has his faculties intact.

He is a self made (by association with Hargreaves) billionaire and widely respected by the majority of City and Bristol rugby fans, plus he  has a stand named after himself, so he surely has a powerful ego and belief in that he absolutely knows best. That being the case I cannot imagine he will spend his time tending his strawberry patch in Guernsey whilst his brainchild is in the hands of others.

Unfortunately, while being a very good stockbroker, he has less qualifications to take football decisions than many on here!

Consider the very start of this fiasco. A prudent club owner might have at least considered the possibility that Johnson would fail at his target - he has form after all and we were crashing and burning before the lockdown.  Nice quiet period of months with no football where discrete feelers could've been put out to potential replacements and their agents might've been able to confirm if they were interested "in the event of... etc etc".

Instead we seem to have sacked Lee with no plans going forward at all at. No contingencies put in place. Start from scratch as if we're hiring a new cleaner, rather than such an important post.

I wouldn't run my company without contingency planning, but it appears that since Steve stepped back from HL in 2012 he has lost the business acumen that obviously got him to where he is.

[Prinny]

If this appointment goes wrong, it's time to change the decision makers at the club. Whether it's the people who claim to make the decisions in Ashton and JL or it's SL (who we suspect makes the decisions) stopping the interference.

That's all IMO.

Either way it's on SL to change things IF it goes badly.

[Mr Popodopolous]

29 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Unfortunately, while being a very good stockbroker, he has less qualifications to take football decisions than many on here!

Consider the very start of this fiasco. A prudent club owner might have at least considered the possibility that Johnson would fail at his target - he has form after all and we were crashing and burning before the lockdown.  Nice quiet period of months with no football where discrete feelers could've been put out to potential replacements and their agents might've been able to confirm if they were interested "in the event of... etc etc".

Instead we seem to have sacked Lee with no plans going forward at all at. No contingencies put in place. Start from scratch as if we're hiring a new cleaner, rather than such an important post.

I wouldn't run my company without contingency planning, but it appears that since Steve stepped back from HL in 2012 he has lost the business acumen that obviously got him to where he is.

Reason being I think was that there were no plans to sack LJ. If we'd come close to the playoffs or still appeared on track or even continued to show the signs then I believe LJ would still be in a job.

Was alarming nature of the collapse that caused it IMO. Perhaps he (LJ) lost the dressing room. @GasDestroyer noted elsewhere on here that the departure was done in a real hurry.

All of the below maybe out the window with a mix of collapse in form on the pitch and Covid off it but...

I firmly believe that we and LJ as the manager were in a two year window for top six.

Two years, the finances had aligned, we had sold to reinvest, he had been backed reasonably. We were about to gain a bit more financial headroom with the £25m loss from 2017/18 dropping off which could have enabled both some trading and genuine strengthening in 2020/21. 

Had things not collapsed post lockdown return and looked like they were remaining on track, I'm fairly sure LJ would still be in charge.

[Red-Robbo]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Reason being I think was that there were no plans to sack LJ. If we'd come close to the playoffs or still appeared on track or even continued to show the signs then I believe LJ would still be in a job.

Was alarming nature of the collapse that caused it IMO. Perhaps he (LJ) lost the dressing room. @GasDestroyer noted elsewhere on here that the departure was done in a real hurry.

All of the below maybe out the window with a mix of collapse in form on the pitch and Covid off it but...

I firmly believe that we and LJ as the manager were in a two year window for top six.

Two years, the finances had aligned, we had sold to reinvest, he had been backed reasonably. We were about to gain a bit more financial headroom with the £25m loss from 2017/18 dropping off which could have enabled both some trading and genuine strengthening in 2020/21. 

Had things not collapsed post lockdown return and looked like they were remaining on track, I'm fairly sure LJ would still be in charge.

But the losses are mirrored everywhere, Mr P. When all clubs are affected, none has an advantage.

"This season Top 6 must be the target," quoth Mr Lansdown in 2019.  We'd finished 7th. Anything else was going backwards.

Contingency planning.  

He's hedged funds, he should've hedged his ongoing managerial options likewise.

[E.J.Thribb]

Current scenario: ‘I’m disenfranchised from the club, it’s no longer MY club, Landsdown OUT’

 

Prospective scenario: ‘these FACELESS billionaires who’ve taken over MY club have RUINED it, we may be in the top flight now but I miss the old days of having a laugh in League 1/Div 2/div3 (pick relevant to age), I’ve NEVER felt more disenfranchised from the club!!’ 
 

or other prospective scenario: as above, but this time ‘these goons have taken over and siphoned my club to death, we’re just a conduit for these EVIL Saudi/Chinese/Russian AUTOCRATS, ruining MY club’
 

As others have said...

 

be careful what you wish for. 

[Hxj]

And of course in the current reality there will need to be a re-alignment of financial expectations from all involved in football.

I don't hold out much expectation of this happening by the end of the summer transfer window, but it will happen in January as some clubs need to offload salary costs and get some transfers out completed.

The same restrictions will also apply to managers and coaches.

Maybe the cunning plan Baldrick is to keep things simple this year and be able to take advantage next year.

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

But the losses are mirrored everywhere, Mr P. When all clubs are affected, none has an advantage.

"This season Top 6 must be the target," quoth Mr Lansdown in 2019.  We'd finished 7th. Anything else was going backwards.

Contingency planning.  

He's hedged funds, he should've hedged his ongoing managerial options likewise.

Oh yeah all clubs will be hammered by Covid. 

I know what SL said RR but I'm not 100% sold that he'd have been sacked had things not just imploded. Maybe the club led imperatives changed with Covid.

[Red-Robbo]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Oh yeah all clubs will be hammered by Covid. 

I know what SL said RR but I'm not 100% sold that he'd have been sacked had things not just imploded. Maybe the club led imperatives changed with Covid.

We'll never know in all probability.

He clearly has inherited some of his dad's temper so maybe he did lose the players. Who knows 

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, Hxj said:

And of course in the current reality there will need to be a re-alignment of financial expectations from all involved in football.

I don't hold out much expectation of this happening by the end of the summer transfer window, but it will happen in January as some clubs need to offload salary costs and get some transfers out completed.

The same restrictions will also apply to managers and coaches.

Maybe the cunning plan Baldrick is to keep things simple this year and be able to take advantage next year.

I certainly think that last paragraph is quite possible. Holden= Deemed safe pair of hands and then go bigger in 2021.

It is notable that Hughton or Cook or similar were not snapped up by Bournemouth contrary to expectations, but Tindall. Maybe they had similar issues with budgetary expectations by prospective managers.

Perhaps Howe was shown the financials generally and blanched! 

Will be interesting to see how certain managers- Howe and Hughton two examples- but plenty more- adjust to this new mix of FFP, Covid constraints and managerial structures with Football Directors etc.